4-21 Way of the Kirin


GM Discussion

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Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

KestlerGunner wrote:

That's two GMs who have skipped Wave 2 (which is considerably more difficult than Wave 1). I don't recall anything in the mod that allows you to do so. You're just going to end up with the invading army entering the house, finding the secret passage, and then tearing after the PCs in the secret passage.

If they do not find the secret passage (their numbers alone suggest that they will find it, and easily) they will likely spread out and find the exit to the secret passage, in which case they are in a perfect position to capture Amara Li and Iko Tsuneo.

The PCs are defending Li and Tsuneo, but they're also providing a distraction to allow them to escape. No distraction, and all that Golden League attention goes straight to Tsuneo & Li.

As I ran it, the league did find the passage, but it took them a few minutes. The party, meanwhile, had booked it down the already-familiar passage, caught up with Amara, and killed the BBEG on the second round of the fight. The Kirin show up "shortly after" that. If they hadn't killed the BBEG so fast, I would have had the second wave people arrive from the cave to join the fight. As it was, they showed up the same time the Kirin did, and the Kirin took them out.

I saw no way to force them into staying in the house while what looked like an army was assaulting it. Why defend a dozen entrances when you only need to defend two? Do people have recommendations for future GM's on how to get people to stay in the house?

Grand Lodge 4/5

VC Amara Li orders the party to defend the house until she issues further orders. They could head a short distance down the tunnel and make a stand there, with one direction of attack from the enemies. That'd be fine. The main point is tying up the enemy force so they don't go after Li and Tsuneo.

Social interactions with NPCs that have no success or failure options are not encounters.

4/5 ****

"for every scenario that your Pathfinder successfully completes, you receive 1 XP."

The note about fewer than 3 encounters is for PCs that do not successfully complete the scenario.

Also:

The heart of any adventure is its encounters. An encounter is any event that puts a specific problem before the PCs that they must solve. Most encounters present combat with monsters or hostile NPCs, but there are many other types—a trapped corridor, a political interaction with a suspicious king, a dangerous passage over a rickety rope bridge, an awkward argument with a friendly NPC who suspects a PC has betrayed him, or anything that adds drama to the game. Brain-teasing puzzles, roleplaying challenges, and skill checks are all classic methods for resolving encounters, but the most complex encounters to build are the most common ones—combat encounters.

The Exchange 2/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

thistledown wrote:
I saw no way to force them into staying in the house while what looked like an army was assaulting it. Why defend a dozen entrances when you only need to defend two? Do people have recommendations for future GM's on how to get people to stay in the house?

The corridor which they are taking is guarded, if they book it, they risk getting sandwiched between the oni and the second wave of enemies. Alternatively, while they are fighting the Oni, the second wave discovers the PCs have fled and makes their own way to the cave on the surface and the PCs. The second wave attackers are all highly mobile and shouldn't have any trouble beating the PCs to the cave, particularly if you don't skip the oni in the cave.

Basically, don't make it so there are two optional encounters. If they decide to book it, there is no reason to skip the oni.

Finally, there are two faction missions that state specifically the PCs should follow Amara's instructions closely. Amara specifically tells the PCs to defend the house. If there are any Lantern or Grand Lodge PCs in the party (seems pretty likely to me); drop the hint that abandoning the house might jeopardize their faction mission.

The Exchange 2/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

KestlerGunner wrote:
VC Amara Li orders the party to defend the house until she issues further orders. They could head a short distance down the tunnel and make a stand there, with one direction of attack from the enemies.

Until the oni hear the fight in the corridor and join the fun..... just sayin'

Sczarni

Bottom line, this scenario takes some time to prepare for and run. Skipping most of the scenario does the players a great disservice. At least none of the players at Thistledown's table were Lantern Lodge.

thistledown wrote:
So even if the chronicle is held, it wouldn't count Debt of the Kirin? Gah, most annoying chronicle ever.

^^^^ QFP.^^^^

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

Dennis Baker wrote:


Finally, there are two faction missions that state specifically the PCs should follow Amara's instructions closely. Amara specifically tells the PCs to defend the house. If there are any Lantern or Grand Lodge PCs in the party (seems pretty likely to me); drop the hint that abandoning the house might jeopardize their faction mission.

For sure, that is how I would rule it. You did not follow orders, thus, you did not successfully completely your faction mission.

What about the Cheliax mission? If you abandon your defenses, should you really get this faction mission?

The Exchange 2/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Silbeg wrote:
Dennis Baker wrote:


Finally, there are two faction missions that state specifically the PCs should follow Amara's instructions closely. Amara specifically tells the PCs to defend the house. If there are any Lantern or Grand Lodge PCs in the party (seems pretty likely to me); drop the hint that abandoning the house might jeopardize their faction mission.

For sure, that is how I would rule it. You did not follow orders, thus, you did not successfully completely your faction mission.

What about the Cheliax mission? If you abandon your defenses, should you really get this faction mission?

I'm not suggesting you changing the success criteria for the scenario, please don't. The PFS team has made it very clear that sticking with the scenario as written is important and altering success criteria is definitely not 'as written'.

Just dropping the hint that there is potential to blow the mission should be enough to keep most players around.

2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
thistledown wrote:
Caderyn wrote:

Also Thistledown your players are also ineligible for the Debt of the Kirin boon as when you filled out the chronicle sheets they did not possess the qualifying boon, you are required to cross it off the sheet, if they later obtain the boon its not retroactive as each chronicle sheet should be completely filled out by the GM on the day it is issued.

Also the Debt of the Kirin boon in FS2 is actually extremely hard to get as written (the boss almost always escapes).

The only boon the new players are eligible for is the standard all factions but lantern lodge boon.

Also they might not be eligible for an EXP point for the scenario as from what I can tell they only completed 2 encounters (wave 1 and Shimazi), you skipped Wave 2 and the optional, so unless there is another encounter listed the players do not actually meet the 3 encounter minimum for EXP.

There was the encounter at the alchemist shop in town, the Tea Ceremony encounter with the Kirin guy, and setting up the house for the siege. The Tea ceremony alone should count as an encounter, but the others would also contribute.

So even if the chronicle is held, it wouldn't count Debt of the Kirin? Gah, most annoying chronicle ever.

Well if the players desperately want the boon, then all they have to do is run the adventure and get a qualifying character to level 3 before the mid-august deadline. That's running 1 session and playing 6 others. Say at one session per week, that's enough time. Or I suppose you could have a weekend or two dedicated to gaming or hit a convention.

Plus you would end up having a group of gaming GMs...always a nice perk.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Dennis Baker wrote:
Just dropping the hint that there is potential to blow the mission should be enough to keep most players around.

Making sure to mention that Ito chose his childhood home for the site might help as well.

Not a good idea to let it burn down when trying to form an alliance.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Rerednaw wrote:
thistledown wrote:
Caderyn wrote:

Also Thistledown your players are also ineligible for the Debt of the Kirin boon as when you filled out the chronicle sheets they did not possess the qualifying boon, you are required to cross it off the sheet, if they later obtain the boon its not retroactive as each chronicle sheet should be completely filled out by the GM on the day it is issued.

Also the Debt of the Kirin boon in FS2 is actually extremely hard to get as written (the boss almost always escapes).

The only boon the new players are eligible for is the standard all factions but lantern lodge boon.

Also they might not be eligible for an EXP point for the scenario as from what I can tell they only completed 2 encounters (wave 1 and Shimazi), you skipped Wave 2 and the optional, so unless there is another encounter listed the players do not actually meet the 3 encounter minimum for EXP.

There was the encounter at the alchemist shop in town, the Tea Ceremony encounter with the Kirin guy, and setting up the house for the siege. The Tea ceremony alone should count as an encounter, but the others would also contribute.

So even if the chronicle is held, it wouldn't count Debt of the Kirin? Gah, most annoying chronicle ever.

Well if the players desperately want the boon, then all they have to do is run the adventure and get a qualifying character to level 3 before the mid-august deadline. That's running 1 session and playing 6 others. Say at one session per week, that's enough time. Or I suppose you could have a weekend or two dedicated to gaming or hit a convention.

Plus you would end up having a group of gaming GMs...always a nice perk.

Not so much that they wanted that boon, so much as I was hoping to not mess the new people up. This was pretty much the first PFS session for 3 of the 4 characters. The 4th had a complicated schedule and wasn't sure when he'd be able to play again, so we couldn't easily just play a different scenario. I think with some more PFS playing experience, they would have been fine and gotten through things better.

Hmm. They had already found out about the childhood home bit. I should have reminded them of that part. Might have helped.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

thistledown wrote:
There was the encounter at the alchemist shop in town, the Tea Ceremony encounter with the Kirin guy, and setting up the house for the siege. The Tea ceremony alone should count as an encounter, but the others would also contribute.

In general an "encounter" is described as one of the primary acts of the scenario. The faction missions at the alchemists shop, and the A-Team montage in the house do not count as encounters. The tea ceremony certainly would as an RP encounter.

Quote:
So even if the chronicle is held, it wouldn't count Debt of the Kirin? Gah, most annoying chronicle ever.

The only way to get that boon is to play the scenario with a 3-7 non-pregen lantern lodge character and succeed or GM the scenario.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

@MisterSlanky

I'd disagree on the A-team montage.* Since there are skill checks involved and a chance of failure, and it directly impacts the other aspects of the scenario, I'd call it an encounter.

*

Spoiler:
When I ran QfPIII I played the Magnificent Seven theme during the briefing/summary, and queued up the A-team theme while they were planning and delegating troops.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I so need to do that the next time I run it.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Queue up Adele's Skyfall. ;-)

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Will Johnson wrote:
Queue up Adele's Skyfall. ;-)

I was thinking that this adventure had a Skyfall kind of feel.

Paizo Employee Developer

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1970Zombie wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
Queue up Adele's Skyfall. ;-)
I was thinking that this adventure had a Skyfall kind of feel.

When I outlined it and assigned it to Dennis, I told him to watch Skyfall specifically to try to emulate the final siege. Glad to see the influence came through.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Moreland wrote:
When I outlined it and assigned it to Dennis, I told him to watch Skyfall specifically to try to emulate the final siege. Glad to see the influence came through.

Then Mark, I am sorry to inform you that we went to Home Alone first.

Dark Archive 4/5

I thought Home Alone too, but that's only because I've seen it more than Skyfall.

5/5 5/55/55/5

dammit i thought it was just us...

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

So, just GMed this. The players really enjoyed the defense point gathering and firing of the catapult. Like a lot of people we had to skip the optional encounter. Even playing low tier, gaining 2+ defense points and having a level 6 and a level 7 in the party; the second wave just took an incredibly long time.

Spoiler:
Just two alchemists. How hard could it be?

Well, 2+ hours for one encounter hard. I shudder to think if they had been facing four.


With spider climb, expeditious retreat, and great acrobatics skills (not to mention a decent intelligence and handle on tactics) and listed tactics of "hit and run" they were all over the place. Don't get me wrong - they performed their mission beautifully. They slowed down the PCs and caused great expenditure of resources. It's just that it took a long time to run the combat.

This isn't the only scenario that's been like this. The very next one I ran involved an encounter with hit-and-run enemies. I'm not much of a fan of "stand toe-to-toe and slug it out" fights but every player is sick of these runaround fights by the time they end.

Anyone have any ideas for speeding these things along without invalidating the tactics of the NPCs as written?

5/5 5/55/5

I just ran this last night with 7 players/ low tier and we fit in 4 hours and that included the optional encounter. The planning stage I had all the PC's marked on the battle map with a timeline grid. This helped everyone see when they were going to get to do something new. I grouped stuff together when possible. For example a player said they were exploring the first floor and that took 15 minutes. (instead of what 3 rooms you are searching taking 5 minutes). Also, I asked them to be ready to know what you want to do, if the player didn't I said I would get right back to them and went to the next person. The players set up the house really well and used great in house defensive strategy but they only got 1 defense point.

I'd say we spent around 10 minutes on the Tea Party section doing role playing, it was fun the players really got into answering the question about their proudest pathfinder moment.

The characters were pretty optimized for combat so the combats went pretty quick, with 7 optimized PC's the combats were not much of a challenge. The Players were surprised the mooks had 34 Hit Points. they were expecting level 1 attackers so this kept them on their tows for all fights throughout the scenario. One of the characters could have died in the optional encounter if he would have missed his save vs. Deep Slumber, and the other Oni standing right next to him could have to coup-d-grased him.

The Exchange 1/5

so, as players, why do they have to even fight? this seems like a simle E&E mission - escape and evade.

why stops them from hiding along the cliffs and wait out the army or for higher level players cast fly and invisibility?
get back to the boat, cast make whole and bypass all the encounters?

is there something written that says the players need to slug it out?

if the primary objective becomes extraction at that point, why risk lives?

am I missing something in the written text?

4/5

Yes you are missing the direct orders from Amara Li to "stay and defend the house" (and to delay the attackers so she and the Way of the Kirin representative can summon help.

They also don't have a boat of their own - they were teleported to the island. The Way of the Kirin guy (don' t have the scenario in front of me right now) came by boat and it is his boat that is burning - though given the weather and distance the party may not know for certain that he had a boat which has been burned.

If they searched the home earlier they may also realize that it is not just a random building - it is the ancestral home of the way of the kirin representative's family - so letting it burn to the ground probably isn't a way to win their favor.

1/5

Here is my overdue account of how my first table of Way of the Kirin went down, spoiler-tagged for space:

How things went down:

5 players, low subtier: Kyra(4), Valeros(4), Summoner(4), Oracle/Paladin/somethingIforgotpossiblybard (3), and Ninja (4?).

The Sczarni mission was confusing, but worked out. The GM notes talk about convincing the shopkeeper to make Karela's shipment a priority, but the faction handout talks about getting the name of a warehouse in Varisia. Eventually, the Sczarni offered a bribe, which the shopkeeper accepted as a down-payment on an order, thereby providing access to warehouse details.

I forgot to roll for overheard conversations and such, and the players didn't ask for details about anticipated threats, so they got to the island rather blind and found the location to be entirely suspect. They suggested moving the tea ceremony to the top of the lighthouse for safety, much to Amara Li's horror. She was willing to move within reason, if they could ensure the table and tea service would fit comfortably, and the PCs ultimately decided to leave the ceremony in place.

The eidolon scouted the area, discovering the secret tunnels and following them to the cave entrance by the water. The team found the supplies in the lighthouse and proceeded to put bear traps outside the tea room windows, and spreading whale oil around the entire perimeter of the house, 10-ft deep (78 5-ft squares), with a plan to set it on fire. [I was unclear about the mechanics of this, so we settled on burning for 10 rounds, 1d6 damage passing through a square with a chance of catching fire on a failed reflex save. I've researched the relevant data for use in future games and provided those details in another post.]

At the tea ceremony, everyone was eager to impress Iko and told tales of the great good that the Pathfinder society did. [I didn't think to roll sense motive, but several characters clearly didn't believe what they were saying.] Valeros echoed their sentiments, but then expressed that he was discouraged from saying more, much to everyone's delight. The Andorans told a rousing tale of the majestic and Good eagle, with Valeros miming the action for added emphasis. (Apparently he was still allowed to participate in silence!)

The boat afire caught everyone off guard, along with the size of the invading group. The PCs immediately scrambled to assemble the catapult, while the Ninja scouted out to mark the front line and attempt to route them, bringing back intel on how tough and dedicated they were. The catapult landed two blows before the army was sufficiently scattered, and the party retreated into the house and set the oil on fire as the first wave reached the top of the path.

Upon seeing the fire, the invaders split up. Two with the portable ram dashed through the fire to bash down the door. It's a shame the BBEG sent his most novice conscripts up first, because they clearly didn’t know which end of the ram to point toward the door. After three rounds, the defenders actually opened the door themselves as the conscripts swung the ram at the door, causing them to stumble inward and provoke a round of attacks.

One other attempts to dive through a window, but gets caught in a bear trap and catches fire. He stumbles around and is unable to escape the flames before getting stabbed to death. The other two who survived the blasts tried shooting through other windows. The final two began shooting arrows through windows, only to be sniped at and finally also decided to charge through the flames, falling to snipers and the other trap.

Time at the gaming shop was short at this point, so Amara Li’s message arrived before Wave 2 and we skipped the optional encounter. The edgy PCs shot the bird, but then opened the note and headed down the tunnels to aid in the battle unfolding in the caves. The summoner recognized the location from his eidolon’s description. Valeros chugged a potion of enlarge, and the BBEG responded by cursing him with inactivity. The saboteur attempted to disrupt the spellcasters with a fuse grenade, but only succeeded in making himself a target, and his subsequent bomb did little to change his dire predicament. The ninja got into position to attack the BBEG from behind, flanking with Valeros. The summoner proceeded to hold the BBEG and Valeros took him down with a single mighty blow.

In re-prepping the scenario, I’ve realized that the Ramparassad missions weren’t only activated if there were party members in a faction, but run regardless. It was a silly oversight, especially given the number of times I read that section, and would have given the players more of a heads-up about what was going on. I’ve brainstormed a few approaches for the Sczarni mission now, too, that should flow better between the backstory and the actual faction request.

There's been some discussion and frustration already expressed in this thread over GMs cutting essentially making there be two optional encounters.

In my case, we were running at a store that officially gives us a 3.5-hour slot, although we often stretch it to 4 hours and make it up by helping to straighten-up the room before we leave (so the staff don't have to spend even MORE time after closing). The house preparations and first encounters took a long time, but the players roleplayed the heck out of them. They would have enjoyed the second wave and I'm sorry they missed it, but we ran over 4 hours as it was and I'd rather skip the second wave than the ending, especially with veteran Lantern Lodge characters present.

The second table I ran did manage to run everything except the optional encounter, although it took us about 5 hours (different store, weekend slot). I will happily post the details of that encounter another day.

The Exchange 1/5

Rycaut wrote:

Yes you are missing the direct orders from Amara Li to "stay and defend the house" (and to delay the attackers so she and the Way of the Kirin representative can summon help.

They also don't have a boat of their own - they were teleported to the island. The Way of the Kirin guy (don' t have the scenario in front of me right now) came by boat and it is his boat that is burning - though given the weather and distance the party may not know for certain that he had a boat which has been burned.

If they searched the home earlier they may also realize that it is not just a random building - it is the ancestral home of the way of the kirin representative's family - so letting it burn to the ground probably isn't a way to win their favor.

fair enough, but isn't that the order given after she flees down the lava tunnels?

thing I don't understand, is if they are attacked and the BBEG is monologueing as he lords over them, when is there the chance to call for help? and if its done magically, why cant it be done at the house?

also, after the modifications done for defense (which require floors and walls to be cut up and torn down) and traps that are set off in the house, isn't it safe to say the house is toast after the adventure as written anyways?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

The order is given before she and Ito take the lava tube to the ritual site. It is specifically to give them time to summon the Kirin.

While animal messenger takes a minute to cast and would be hard to get off in combat, it is not unreasonable that Amara Li could hide via Stealth or invisibility while Ito holds off Migoku. If nothing else, Migoku may take the time to engage in precombat trash talk with his former teacher before realizing he has let them send a warning.

As to the condition of the house after battle, it would be worse off if no one were to defend it than as written. The fireball spells are noted to be more flashy than effective against the stone frame.

4/5

It is also the case that many parties won't do anything to the house other than move some furniture around. The party I ran didn't do anything inside the house other than block a few windows with furniture and set up the catapult. The didn't ask to do anything that involved breaking up the floors etc - so choose to engage mostly outside (racing back inside when the alchemists started lighting things on fire). Though probably they left a few too many things on fire....

The handwaving is that Amara and the Kirin representative are casting a fairly high level spell (something like summon planar ally) - unclear if the Kirin's they summon are standard Kirin or Emperor Kirin (I'd suggest they probably are higher CR than 6 Kirins)

The Exchange 1/5

awesome reasoning!

thank you!

1/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Matthew Pittard wrote:

I played in a 4 player game of this yesterday, I am more of concern with the chronicle sheet.

3 of the other players spent the prestige points to switch to Lantern Lodge for this scenario for essentially the +1 ability point. After successfully completing the scenario (3-4) , the former Loyal Lantern Lodge members picked the Shadow Lodge as their next port of call ( in anticipation of the retirement scenario for the Shadow Lodge).

My question is: THere is nothing stopping this is there?

There is something. It's coming. Lets wait until next month. I don't want to spoil the surprise.

Am I reading it right that there is a secret punishment tied to going from Lantern Lodge to Shadow Lodge that won't be reveled until after the fact? If so, that is rather disappointing, I would much rather just be told up front that we don't like this sort of thing(I really can't even think of a good word for it, everything I come up with I could make up a possible scenario to render the term invalid,) and don't want players doing it.

To me it sounds a lot like GMs that don't like save or suck spells because a perceived advantage over traditional attacks, so they fudge saves and then turn full attention on the caster for using them.

People spend a lot of time learning many of the game rules in order to benefit from them, that is part of the fun.

If I have misread this statement, I apologize.

Grand Lodge 1/5

Regarding Two Boons

Spoiler:
The Boon in Rivarly's End specifically says it does not combine with the Way of the Kirin Boon.

1/5

Andi A. wrote:

Regarding Two Boons

** spoiler omitted **

That seems pretty reasonable and not punitive.

By the way, this was a really fun scenario. I played it with a first time GM and it was still one of my favorite sessions played in a while. It had a really nice mix of RP and tough fights.

4/5 *

MisterSlanky wrote:
The only way to get that boon is to play the scenario with a 3-7 non-pregen lantern lodge character and succeed or GM the scenario.

I don't think this works - all pregens are Grand Lodge. You could assign the Chronicle to a new first-level Lantern Lodge PC, but they'd have to get to 3rd level before the deadline or they wouldn't get the boon.

5/5

Scott Young wrote:
MisterSlanky wrote:
The only way to get that boon is to play the scenario with a 3-7 non-pregen lantern lodge character and succeed or GM the scenario.
I don't think this works - all pregens are Grand Lodge. You could assign the Chronicle to a new first-level Lantern Lodge PC, but they'd have to get to 3rd level before the deadline or they wouldn't get the boon.

Right. That's why he said "non-pregen." :)

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder LO Special Edition, PF Special Edition Subscriber

FYI

I uploaded a "cheat sheet" with monster stats to the Shared Google Docs folder HERE.

Enjoy!

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Not a bad module. Some interesting things to do, but I'm left wondering

Spoiler:
why is the catapult not on the chronicle sheet?

;)

The Exchange 2/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

My bad, I'd assumed they were considered always available.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder LO Special Edition, PF Special Edition Subscriber
Dennis Baker wrote:

My bad, I'd assumed they were considered always available.

You sir, are awesome.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Dennis Baker wrote:

My bad, I'd assumed they were considered always available.

Not the do-it-yourself Kirin lie-flat catapult. ;)

Grand Lodge 5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

As the players pointed out that the Iko family is of course renowned in Sweden for flatpack furniture and catapults.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

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Ran this last weekend and it was a blast. My players had fun, and I enjoyed running.

Spoilers, maybe:
My one take-away is that I will be buying Potions of Lesser Restoration for all of my PCs.

Wave 1:
My players boarded up all of the windows on the ground floor save one. On both sides of that one they hid the two bear-traps they found. Unfortunately for the poor Conscript who saw the un-barricaded window, his Perceptions rolls were so low that he did not see either trap and stepped in both. The players never staked them in place so the Conscript was merely slowed, and injured, by the first bear-trap.

Wave 2:

As they were putting out the fires, one of the players asked the rest if anyone had actually checked the cliff for climbers. People responded that no one had. I waited as they finished stopping the fires, and verified that, while the question was asked IC, no one had actually gone and checked. Then announced the sound of breaking glass. Had two characters get poisoned who had a terrible time with that saving throw.

Overall everyone had a good time and were satisfied with the session and their rewards, especially the Lantern Lodge member.

Grand Lodge 5/5 ****

I've ran it now twice - and both times the tactics have been the same:

1) The group finds the secret tunnel ahead of time exploring and searching the house
2) The group decides it is easier and better defensible to stay in the tunnel
3) The group deals with wave 1 by using the 20 gallon of oil to soak the whole house, lure as many enemies as possible into the house and give 1 volley of shots before retreating into the tunnel (after throwing an alchemist fire to set the house ablaze).

I've been reading this thread as well as the scenario:

Scenario (emphasis mine):
As the PCs guard the bolthole, Amara Li contacts them with an urgent summons. Whether they travel to the cave from the outside or through the lava tubes, the PCs may have to defeat the Golden League’s oni allies, who have laid an ambush.

Amara asks the PCs to remain behind and defend the house. If the PCs can hold off the invaders for a short time, reinforcements will arrive.

I couldn't find anything in the scenario (as written) that would go against this - apart of placing a lot more emphasis on defend the house. Contrary to it - Cheliax factions lacking skills to rebuild the catapult and lack long distance spells will feel they follow Zarta Dralneens objective: make the most of any natural defenses or traps to slay the assailants and minimize the harm you sustain while acting in her defense. In case you have forgotten, there’s a short list of
those who are allowed to leave a mark on your lovely skin, and Amara Li is not one of them!

Add the bear trap into the hallway and I'm fully aware that this makes wave 1 a lot easier and skips wave 2 completely.

I then changed the seagull to a bat (seemed more fitting) and used the optional encounter instead of wave 2.

I was aware from the outset that the idea of the groups sidesteps some of the adventure as planned. On the other hand - I didn't want to steamroll them by finding excuses why they shouldn't follow their plot.

Both groups had lots of fun. One even weakened the floor boards upstairs and first placed the bear trap 500 feet into the lava tubes - only to send one of their members with Amara Li to guide them around it and reuse them in the entry way.

There was lots of roleplay - and I didn't mind time wise to end half an hour on a busy convention or late evening.

Off course a lot can happen just how you as GM act/describe fluff. I described the orange shine is a large boat with 10+ guards and sailors - to instill what is to come and to make it reasonable that you actually see the flames from that far away.

There has been a hint from TOZ in another threat to imply honour to keep the house standing. Yes - this certainly could be done to avoid the above - but should be done before a group comes up with such a plan. And I didn't get a strong feeling that this is implied in the scenario (before I read here replies by Dennis/TOZ).

They never intended to leave the house/tunnel before further instructions from Amara Li - as I said - their emphasis (and my understanding) was on buying time - not defending valuables. But they tried to take as many enemies down in their fire trapped house - and to buy as much time as possible while the house burns.

I don't think (without GM fiat) that the stranglers have enough time to get to the cave (without overland fly - potion of fly = 3 min but cave approx. 6000 feet according to map). Actually wave 2 should be soon after wave 1 and then the sorcerer start blasting and try to get the group into the tunnel anyway.

I felt both group enjoyed it a lot how they solved the problem. But reading here I feel I should have guided them differently. If that is the case then there should be more emphasis on the house and that it should stay intact. But then I feel players are cheated when the sorcerer burn it down anyhow.

Would be good to get some opinions.

There are no CRB rules on burning buildings - aka how quickly fire spreads and how long it will last, how much damage to expect in a burning building, etc.. There is ample precedent when the players are trying to extinguish flames when they run into a trap. I think I can recall at least 3 scenarios where this is the case and fleeing the fire is the only option to survive.

I hand waved it as I felt it didn't matter how many conscripts exactly they killed as the Kirin would take care of any left.

The scenario itself gives a 25% chance of spreading to adjacent squares inside the building - this is NOT taking into account soaking everything burnable with 20 gallons off oil. So expect it to burn WELL.

Funnily enough - all the saboteurs and foot troops have lots of alchemist fire, fuse grenades, smoke sticks to speed it up / further enhance the fire - but hardly have anything to stop it.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

The burn it all approach would work, but Amara may want to import words of wisdom like don't cut off your nose to spite your face. She is trying to ally herself with the Way of Kirin, and while this home is unused at the moment, it might give great insult to burn it down to the ground in an over zealous defines when powerful allies are coming.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Galnörag wrote:
The burn it all approach would work, but Amara may want to import words of wisdom like don't cut off your nose to spite your face. She is trying to ally herself with the Way of Kirin, and while this home is unused at the moment, it might give great insult to burn it down to the ground in an over zealous defines when powerful allies are coming.

ermm.... theydidit! *points at bodies on the floor*

Dark Archive 3/5

Spoiler:
I'm wondering what allows the BBEG access to the spell Fog Cloud, it's not on the cleric/oracle spell list.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Chris Ballard wrote:
Spoiler about one of the enemies' abilities:
I'm wondering what allows the BBEG access to the spell Fog Cloud, it's not on the cleric/oracle spell list.

Spoiler:
He's an Oracle of Battle. Fog Cloud is the second level bonus spell for that mystery.
Dark Archive 3/5

Ok, thanks missed that.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

I may have missed this, but can someone explain Divine Shield to me as the BBEGs before combat tactics mention it. I can't find a description of it anywhere.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Divine shield is a typo of divine favor. It only lasts one minute and is his only buff to expire between his battle with Amara and Tsuneo and the PCs arrival.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Divine shield is a typo of divine favor. It only lasts one minute and is his only buff to expire between his battle with Amara and Tsuneo and the PCs arrival.

That's what I figure so that how I played it. Thanks for the quick reply, Tri.

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