Two-handed weapon user while grappled

[setzer9999]

If a creature uses a two-handed weapon and becomes grappled, can it use the "two-handed" weapon in one hand as an improvised weapon?

What if that creature also has natural attacks that it normally doesn't use because it is wielding the two-handed weapon under normal circumstances? Say, a Barbarian with the Lesser Beast Totem power is grappled... normally it has a two claw attack... obviously by logic if one hand is not able to be used it would only get one, but mechanically, would it only get one claw attack? Or could it even use the claw attack at all?

[Starglim]

It can't attack at all with the two-handed weapon in one hand, any more than it could do so when not grappled.

A claw attack only requires one hand. edit: Taking two claw attacks is a full attack action and it requires both hands to perform that action, so the barbarian couldn't do it. It could take a claw attack and a bite attack, if it had one, since that full attack action doesn't require more than one hand.

[setzer9999]

Starglim wrote:

It can't attack at all with the two-handed weapon in one hand, any more than it could do so when not grappled.

A claw attack only requires one hand. edit: Taking two claw attacks is a full attack action and it requires both hands to perform that action, so the barbarian couldn't do it. It could take a claw attack and a bite attack, if it had one, since that full attack action doesn't require more than one hand.

It can't even attack with it as an improvised weapon at -4 used like a club?

It can't use 1 claw of its two claw attack? So, unless you can make two attacks, you can't use claw attacks? Can you supply support from the rules about that?

[Jester David]

You could treat it like using a large sized one-handed weapon.

"Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all."

[Jeven]

Can you describe how you would use the two-handed weapon?

Lets say someone is wrestling you to the ground as the grapple. How do you physically use the 2-handed weapon against him?
Personally I think the weapon would be too bulky and awkward to use at such close quarters.
Maybe you could smash the metal hilt into his face or some other tender spot, but that would probably make it an improvised attack and the hilt would be the equivalent of a gauntlet as a weapon.

[setzer9999]

Is there an official position on if it is improvised or inappropriately sized?

The rules for two-handed weapons say

"Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon."

This seems to indicate you can still try to use it otherwise, but I just am unsure if its improvised or inappropriately sized. I just can't see it as completely unusable entirely though.

What about using only 1 claw of a 2 claw natural weapon?

[Corbin Dallas]

setzer9999 wrote:

What about using only 1 claw of a 2 claw natural weapon?

To my knowledge there are no rules preventing use of natural attacks while having the grappled condition. They are not restricted to "two weapon or two handed" rules that I am aware.

The monk in my group likes to wrestle dragons and the like, I have put him down more than once with a full attack of natural weapons.
Unless you are pinned I use full attack natural weapons with the -2 grappled penalty all the time.

Improvised Greatsword-
Let's see. Assuming medium size(2d6), I would say it does 1d8 plus regular strength @ -6 to hit. Does that satisfy the improvised and inappropriate size rules without breaking any rules?

[setzer9999]

Corbin Dallas wrote:

setzer9999 wrote:

What about using only 1 claw of a 2 claw natural weapon?

To my knowledge there are no rules preventing use of natural attacks while having the grappled condition. They are not restricted to "two weapon or two handed" rules that I am aware.

The monk in my group likes to wrestle dragons and the like, I have put him down more than once with a full attack of natural weapons.
Unless you are pinned I use full attack natural weapons with the -2 grappled penalty all the time.

Improvised Greatsword-
Let's see. Assuming medium size(2d6), I would say it does 1d8 plus regular strength @ -6 to hit. Does that satisfy the improvised and inappropriate size rules without breaking any rules?

So, if the barbarian were still holding his greatsword, he could make his full attack with his claw attacks even though only 1 hand was free? Or would he need to drop the greatsword to make 2 claw attacks, and only get half the benefit of the attack if he held onto the sword?

As for the improvised part, are you suggesting that it is both improvised and inappropriate sized both?

[mplindustries]

It is a free action to take a hand off or put a hand onto a 2-handed weapon, so he could easily take a hand off and claw with it.

That said, why don't you have armor spikes? I highly recommend that everyone have a "handless" weapon of some kind--armor spikes, improved unarmed strike, a bite, even a boot blade, etc.

[Corbin Dallas]

setzer9999 wrote:

So, if the barbarian were still holding his greatsword, he could make his full attack with his claw attacks even though only 1 hand was free? Or would he need to drop the greatsword to make 2 claw attacks, and only get half the benefit of the attack if he held onto the sword?

Universal monster rules wrote:

"Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type."
He doesn't have to drop it he just has to forgo one for holding the sword.

setzer9999 wrote:

As for the improvised part, are you suggesting that it is both improvised and inappropriate sized both?

Yes I am. I don't think it breaks any other rule but I am not completely sure.