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Rules question that may decide some of my feat choices...
If I'm a mouser swashbuckler in an opponent's square and using Underfoot Assault, and have Step Up and Strike (and Combat Reflexes)...
If the opponent takes a five foot step away from me, do I get two attacks of opportunity? (Once for Underfoot Assault, and once for Step Up and Strike) Or do I only get one? (Because the enemy only took a single action)
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One from step up and strike.
You followed him as an immediate action so he never left your square and thus never provoked from underfoot assault but your underfoot assault continues.
YMMV.
Edit: alternately you can step up and strike from an adjacent square and get 2 attacks. Even though its one action it is two provocations.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Underfoot Assualt doesn't make you considered adjacent from my read.
So technically Step Up and Strike doesn't let you follow them. All the Step Up line uses "adjacent" square.
This rules interaction may be relevant:
A tiny creature moves into a space of an opponent. It provokes twice. Once for moving. Once for entering an opponent space.
Underfoot provokes when they leave and is a special provoke rule. I find it interesting they don't say it is the "leaving threaten square" provoke. I'm unsure if this allows two provokes, one for leaving from Underfoot Assault and one for leaving a threatened square ("any square you can make an attack").
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Underfoot Assualt doesn't make you considered adjacent from my read.
So technically Step Up and Strike doesn't let you follow them. All the Step Up line uses "adjacent" square.
In the Combat Chapter, under Melee Attacks:
Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.
In their square is within five feet, so you are adjacent.
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Melee Attacks: With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet. (Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.) Some melee weapons have reach, as indicated in their descriptions. With a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet).
I'm pretty sure Underfoot Assault does make the foe adjacent to you.
Grey Mage brings up a good point where the opponent might technically never leave your square, and thus never qualifies for the underfoot assault provoke.
Yes. Even with a 5-foot step, a Tiny or smaller creature entering a creature’s space provokes an attack of opportunity (unless it is using a more specific ability to avoid the attack of opportunity such as the Monkey Shine feat). This doesn’t mean that a Tiny or smaller creature entering a creature’s space and moving out of a threatened square with a move action provokes two attacks of opportunity from that creature, for the same reason that moving out of multiple of a creature’s threatened squares in the same move action doesn’t provoke two attacks of opportunity.
Tiny Creatures provoke FAQ sort of negates the second part of that argument, too... but lends more evidence toward the idea "creatures leaving your square only provoke once, even with both underfoot assault and step-up-and-strike"
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One from step up and strike.
You followed him as an immediate action so he never left your square and thus never provoked from underfoot assault but your underfoot assault continues.
YMMV.
Edit: alternately you can step up and strike from an adjacent square and get 2 attacks. Even though its one action it is two provocations.
I disagree. He 5' steps, leaving your square and provoking an AoO for Underfoot. You then use Step Up to follow into his square, which provokes on your part for entering his space. Then you get your Step Up and Strike AoO for using Step Up. He gets attacked twice, you get attacked once. That's the trade.
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I disagree. He 5' steps, leaving your square and provoking an AoO for Underfoot. You then use Step Up to follow into his square, which provokes on your part for entering his space. Then you get your Step Up and Strike AoO for using Step Up. He gets attacked twice, you get attacked once. That's the trade.
You know, I think I'm happy with that interpretation. I wonder if we can get some sort of ruling or consensus on this. Preferably before I play next week and potentially lock in some important feat choices.
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Tiny Creatures provoke FAQ sort of negates the second part of that argument, too... but lends more evidence toward the idea "creatures leaving your square only provoke once, even with both underfoot assault and step-up-and-strike"Grey Mage brings up a good point where the opponent might technically never leave your square, and thus never qualifies for the underfoot assault provoke.
Yes. Even with a 5-foot step, a Tiny or smaller creature entering a creature’s space provokes an attack of opportunity (unless it is using a more specific ability to avoid the attack of opportunity such as the Monkey Shine feat). This doesn’t mean that a Tiny or smaller creature entering a creature’s space and moving out of a threatened square with a move action provokes two attacks of opportunity from that creature, for the same reason that moving out of multiple of a creature’s threatened squares in the same move action doesn’t provoke two attacks of opportunity.
I'd argue that the FAQ references movement AoOs, where as Step Up and Strike is just an attack that counts as one of your AoOs. So you can get both.
Probably can't get one for them leaving your threatened square (normal) and one for them leaving your square (underfoot) though..
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I disagree. He 5' steps, leaving your square and provoking an AoO for Underfoot. You then use Step Up to follow into his square, which provokes on your part for entering his space. Then you get your Step Up and Strike AoO for using Step Up. He gets attacked twice, you get attacked once. That's the trade.One from step up and strike.
You followed him as an immediate action so he never left your square and thus never provoked from underfoot assault but your underfoot assault continues.
YMMV.
Edit: alternately you can step up and strike from an adjacent square and get 2 attacks. Even though its one action it is two provocations.
I disagree. As an immediate action you act before the provocation. Thus, he didn't leave and you followed. He started to leave and you jumped ahead of him and waited as he continued to occupy your square.
On a side note the AOO is a parting gift from underfoot assault in recompense for the panache used to begin it.
Allowing UA to continue as well as grant 2 AOOs seems against RAI.
I say this as a player with a Mouser character using this feat line effectively.
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Underfoot Assualt doesn't make you considered adjacent from my read.
So technically Step Up and Strike doesn't let you follow them. All the Step Up line uses "adjacent" square.
This rules interaction may be relevant:
A tiny creature moves into a space of an opponent. It provokes twice. Once for moving. Once for entering an opponent space.Underfoot provokes when they leave and is a special provoke rule. I find it interesting they don't say it is the "leaving threaten square" provoke. I'm unsure if this allows two provokes, one for leaving from Underfoot Assault and one for leaving a threatened square ("any square you can make an attack").
If they leave or withdraw when subjected to UA they would provoke immediately from UA.
Additionally, if they used a move action it would provoke from leaving a threatened square immediately.
If they used withdraw they would provoke leaving a threatened square as well but from the adjacent square (since withdrawal only allows the first 5' not to provoke from movement) This assumes the mouser actually threatens 5'. (In your face tiny mousers! Halflings rule!)
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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In the Combat Chapter, under Melee Attacks:
Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.In their square is within five feet, so you are adjacent.
+1 Thanks!
Allowing UA to continue as well as grant 2 AOOs seems against RAI.
I thought the "Tiny can't 5 ft into square due to the enter square provokes" FAQ was against RAI. So if there is a desire for consistency, then leaving a square with UA should provoke once for UA and once for leaving threatening.
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Considering both Step Up and Underfoot Assault operate on "attempts to" move/5' step, both will activate regardless of whether you 5' stepped simultaneously or directly afterward. I lean towards the latter because at least it grants the opponent an AoO to balance out the Mouser's AoO and SU&S attack.