Need Some Help - Crypt of the Everflame


Adventures


Hi All-
So I was running through my first play of “Crypt of the Everflame” which happens to be only my second adventure ever. I was GM running it with only two players playing two characters each. This is a group of players also with no experience (my wife and kid ). When we ran the beginner box adventure, things went fine, but I have found running Crypt of the Everflame…that we are struggling to get through some parts. We played last night but quite frankly, I felt that getting through some of these difficult areas are slowing the game down to the point where my players are losing interest quickly. Hoping to get some from those familiar this module:

1. On the first part of the crypt itself (lower level), there is a room called Maze of Pits. The pits have pillows at the bottom, as they were setup as tricks, etc, etc. When my PC’s walk into the room and fall into one they take some non-lethal damage after a reflex save. So as they fell into them, the nonlethal damage thing became really monotonous. Also, how can they get out of the pits?

2. It says that a player poking around with a stick would be able to notice the traps, but if they didn’t know traps were in the room why would they be poking around with a stick?

3. After pulling all 3 switches at once the door opens, however it only opens for one round and the far switch is REALLY far from the door. How could that player get all the way through the door at the other end?

4. Once the PC’s reach the door to Roldare’s chamber, they are supposed to complete a “trio of strength checks” to push it open. However it also mentions the door is locked with a device. So, is it a choice? Is the crossbow fired between each strength check or each “group” of checks (four players)?

5. My players didn’t choose to pay any attention to Roldare’s sister. So should I just let it be?

6. After meeting Roldare they made there way to the room with the large beetle. But the room seems awfully small for the beetle plus 4 PC’s. There is really no room for maneuvering unless I am missing something.

7. In this room the module reads to the PC’s something along the lines of “the room is mostly empty, save for the body of a villager”. However then its says later that the beetle attacks anyone who enters. How should this play out? Is this a situation where there is a surprise round? It just seemed kind of clunky to me. The PC’s walk in, I tell them the room is empty save for a body and then immediately tell them to roll for initiative?

8. When I am attacking as the GM, when do I know when to use the monsters “special moves” etc?

9. When reading a statblock it will say something like HP 19 (3d8+6)…what is the second part referring to?
Thanks so much for your help guys / gals. I am sorry if this is poorly written, but I am writing at work  so wanted to get the questions out fast as I know how helpful this group normally is!!

Thanks Again!


I don't have the adventure in front of me but I have run it before.

1.) They should start looking for the pits. With a high enough Perception check they should be able to tell which is a trap and which isn't (or just poke it with a stick). Plus they can climb out the pits (climb check). With someone bracing a rope, a person in a pit should be able to get out without any problems.

2.) After the first fall players should start taking precautions. After the second they really should be getting creative.

3.) PCs' can get creative here. Either allow only 1 person through...or have that one person block the door open with something suitably strong. Basically if they think of something that might work at least allow a skill check to see if it does. Things that definitely work can be waved as an auto success.

4.) Yes :) Usually due to limited space only 1 person can push at a door at a time. With a battering ram another player can aid. Let the crossbow be fired when it would increase tension, this could be every round if players are doing well with their strength checks or every 3 rounds if not. That encounter is not supposed to be a brick-wall deadly encounter.

5.) Yes.

6.) There is no sign saying "no fighting in the hallways". Don't use only the room but the passages that lead there as well. It's all valid for combat. It seems very artificial that combat will only occur in a room and not anywhere else.

7.) The room descriptions usually don't include monsters so you can read the room description and then go "...AND from a dark corner a beetle scurries out to bite at your legs. Roll initiative." Usually asking for marching order for general movement is a good idea. Then you know who is going to get bitten.

8.) Entirely up to you. I prefer to be mean and use them as often as possible, though most have a limited number of uses.

9.) Those numbers are the dice rolled (hit dice or HD) and bonus value from Constitution that a monster gets to his hit points. In your example the monsters is a 3HD monster which is important for some spells.

Crypt of the Everflame was quite a deadly dungeon to run for experienced players but then again we played it as a PFS module so they didn't level up half way through.

Players are not the characters they are playing. The character might know something that the player doesn't. To this end if the players arn't realising something important that the character would realise, I call for an Intelligence check. If they pass, I give a clue or insight (e.g. DC 10 Int check: some of the floor tiles seem to loose, you could poke it with a sword/scabbard/polearm to find out which) if not, I remain quiet and let them stumble around in the dark for a bit longer.

Hope that helps a little.


That is helpful....but one thing I struggle with is: should I be asking them to do perception check or do they need to ask for it themselves. That's more of a general GM question I guess.

Also, My PCs when they heard Roldare wailing, wanted to go through other door in the very 1st room which would take them to room 6. Am I supposed to let them do it? It seemed like it would screw up progression and story. I ended up just telling them that door was almost impossible to open...hinting to them to just not bother and follow the path to room 2.


I don't know the module, but I think I can still help you on some of your questions.

1. Normally, if a trap allows for a reflex save, there is no damage on a successfull save, only if they fail it.
How did they keep falling in? Once they fell into the second one, they should have started to look for other traps. Normally, if they are cautious, and don't run into the room without paying attention, they should get a perception check to notice the traps without falling in.

2. There are players who are very paranoid and insist on checking EVERY piece of floor with a stick before stepping on it. After the first one of them fell into one of the pits, your players should have become more cautious too. Or did they just keep walking? I don't know about these pits, but normally you make a climb check against the CD of the pits walls or maybe another PC helps you with a rope. (They DO have rope, don't they? please tell me, they have rope...)

3. Depending on classes and level, they could use mage hand/telekinesis to pull the last lever or they could have a summoned creature do it. Alternatively 3 of them could pull the levers, while the 4th waits near the door and jams it with something (stone, dagger, iron spike, whatever) so it cannot close again.

4. Can't help you here, since I don't know the module.

5. If the players make a decision, the consequences are theirs to live with, even if that means that they miss some loot or have a hard time overcoming a challenge. Imho you should only "force" interactionw ith an NPC if there is no way at all to complete the adventure without talking to said NPC. Once again, I don't know about this module.

6. Most indoor encounters in APs and modules leave little free space for maneuvering. While this is quite realistic (1 square equals 5 feet or 1,5meters, so a room of 4 by 4 squares is already 36m²) I sometimes like to double the squares to make the fight a little more versatile and give my players as well as my npcs/monsters more room for maneuvering.

7. If the module doesn't state that the beetle is hidden, I'd tell them that it is there. (once again, don't have the text myself) Otherwise, even if it is hiding, they definately get a perception check opposed by the beetles stealth, to realise that it is there. If one of them makes the ckeck, you can tell him/her about a skittering sound around the corner/behind their back or something.

If they all make the ckeck - no surprise round, normal initiative.

If some of them make the check - surprise round, whoever made the check gets to act (by order of initiative), the others don't, after this, resume combat as normal.

If no one makes the check, surprise attack for the beetle, afterwards combat as normal.

Don't forget that even those who get to act in the surprise round only have half a normal round (move action OR standard action, not both) and that everybody who hasn't acted yet is still flat footed.

8. You play the monsters so that they act in their best interest and following their motivations. Once it makes sense for the enemy to use a special attack, do so. Of course you can decide to have an enemy behave in subotimal way to make it easier for the party (very funny and nerly mandatory with low level goblins) but remember not to make things to easy or to illogical. If the enemys just stand there without fighting back properly, the victory will feel dull for your players.
Remember that most enemys don't fight to the death if they don't have a reason to do so, so if they are intelligent, you can have them surrender or run away.
Does that answer your question? I'm not sure if I understood it correctly.

9. "The xdy + z"-part refers to how the hitpoints for the monster were generated (x number of racial/class HD, HD-type y, plus z bonus hp for constitution/feats)
You don't have to pay attention to this if you don't intend to alter the monster, except for some spells or effects, where it's important to know how many HD a creature has.

Hope this helps, have fun with your family. I'd love to get my parents to try playing, but somehow I don't seem to be able to interest them.

Edit: ninja'd. especially on such a long post. Damn you, Avianfoo *shakes fist dramatically while lightning strikes in the background*

Edit 2: I normally consider my players to be taking 10 on perception rolls, if they are not actively hurrying or there is some other reason why they wouldn't be cautious. (in the middle of a busy street or in their home for example)
You can of course be mean and not give them any rolls as long as they don't ask for them, but in my experience that just leads to the point where your players end all of their sentences with "...and I am very cautious and aware."

You might consider rolling some percepton checks in secret for your players, because if you let them roll, they all roll badly and then you say "you don't notice anything", they will most likely be compelled to be cautious anyway.


nd23rin wrote:

That is helpful....but one thing I struggle with is: should I be asking them to do perception check or do they need to ask for it themselves. That's more of a general GM question I guess.

Also, My PCs when they heard Roldare wailing, wanted to go through other door in the very 1st room which would take them to room 6. Am I supposed to let them do it? It seemed like it would screw up progression and story. I ended up just telling them that door was almost impossible to open...hinting to them to just not bother and follow the path to room 2.

A GM can (and usually does) call for Perception checks. It would be annoying if the PC's kept on rolling Perception checks for no reason but there is nothing preventing them from asking for one when, say, entering a new room or searching a room.

If you were clear that the wailing was coming from one direction and they go another direction, let them. They will come back later and go... oh so that is what that other encounter was about.


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I'm in a nearly identical situation -- I just finished running Crypt of the Everflame with my wife and 3 kids, directly after running the Beginner Box. I had a rocky experience in exactly the rooms you're talking about, but it got better after that.

In no particular order, here are some things I learned over the course of the module to make it more fun for my players. Some of them pertain to your comments, but not all, so I'll avoid using your numbering system:


  • I adapted several of the encounters. For example, I replaced the shadow (which is coming up very soon for your players) with an air elemental, because my players had no magic items with which to damage a shadow, and no way to heal ability score damage.

  • I decided that sometimes I just have to offer advice, especially to the kids. I do that frequently with my 6-year-old, and somewhat less frequently with my pre-teens. Or instead of offering advice, I will simplify the game by narrowing down their choices for them.

  • Running two characters each might be a challenge for new players, especially kids; if that's true, you might consider adding an NPC instead. This would provide you with an in-game way to make suggestions. (For example, in the room with the pits and the levers, the NPC could have offered to prop open the door after all 3 levers were pulled, giving everyone ample time to make it through the door.)

  • I had a lot of situations where the monsters crowded the players at the doorway to their room, which left no room for combat tactics. So I decided to ignore surprise rounds, and I set up most of my combats in a Saturday morning cartoon fashion, with the monster at the far end of the room, shambling forward, giving my players space to move around. It's too bad most of the encounters are speechless creatures, or I would have had them chortling, cackling or boasting as well.... IMO, when playing with kids, it's impossible to be too melodramatic.

  • I got lenient on the perception checks. If noticing something is either fun or important, I made sure they noticed it. I'll toughen up on them when they're more experienced.

  • I scanned the play-by-post forums to see how other GMs described certain rooms or encounters. I remember being fond of DM Mathpro's game in particular.

In addition, be aware that the printed module has two errors in it, according to the GM thread:

(1) The stairs in area 4 and 9 are supposed to connect to one another. But I decided that allowing them to connect would make it possible to skip some important rooms, so I deleted the stairs instead.

(2) Both the doors leading out of room 6 are locked, but only one of them has a key (the southeast door can be unlocked with the key from the fire in room 5). I changed the module so that the key from room 5 opens the southwest door instead. Then I added a key to the southeast door in the room where the PCs find all the gifts from the townspeople.

As I said above, the module got better as I went along, partially because I got more familiar with the rules and comfortable with ignoring either rules or content that weren't providing a good time for the players.

Good luck!


nd23rin wrote:

Hi All-

1. Climb checks.

2. It is a dungeon, they should be expecting traps. Dungeons tend to have automated defenses since the inhabitants or people who created it do not want others to just walk in an take whatever the dungeon was created to house.
If the players are walking around in a cave then there probably wont be traps.

3. Considering there are supposed to be 4 characters, three could pull switches, and the 4th could put something in the door to prevent it from closing or just hold it open.

4. The 'trio of strength checks' allow the PCs to shove the door in. Technically all of the doors in the module can be bashed down, it just takes enough damage or a high enough strength check. For example, if I throw myself against a door that opens away from me the door will give sooner or later if I hit it with enough force.

5. It says that Kassen is able to heal her after the undead mercenary captain that he fought ages ago is dispatched. If the Players ignore her then Kassen could probably just take her and Roldare back to town by himself.

6. I just checked this. The "Giant Bombardier Beetle" is a medium creature. When I ran this I described the beetle as being covered up by the body, and when jumping on top of the body when the players walked into the room.

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