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Vishkanya poison rogue... oh I don't know


So I have a concept that I'm having an exceptionally hard time getting to work out. Any advice on how to build this out (up to low teens I guess, not too far out) would be extremely appreciated.

I have a lvl 1 Vishkanya Deadly courtesan Rogue with the sleep poison feat (see character sheet for details). In the future I would like to go Unarmed TWF Rogue with the Adder Strike feat and all the contact/injury poisons I can get for sneak attack+poison awesomeness. Going with a hard core serpent theme here character development wise.
Not sure how to go about this. My first thought was dip into Monk for all the goodies there and free Imp. Unarmed strike, but I don't know enough about monks and monk archetypes to be certain it's worth it. Then there's all the talk about Alchemists and poison crafting only being really viable with a few lvls there. Well now I have 3 classes running, all of which have a +0 BAB at lvl 1. Not good.
Another thought was getting the Serpentine sorcerer bloodline via eldritch heritage.


For Legacy of Fire AP, if that matters. (no spoilers please)

You could go Vivisectionist Alchemist. You get to keep your sneak attack, plenty of self buffs, a bonus to Craft:Alchemy, Brew Potion for free, and some of the discoveries are great for poisoners.

I'm also the only rogue in the party so I'm hesitant to abandon our only source of trap finding. If it's the only viable way of making this work then I'll ditch the rogue, but that'll probably hurt the first time we run into a major trap.

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Traps are not a big deal in Legacy of Fire.

Alchemist does poison way better than Rogues.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Meh, have fun rather than fit a role. You probably have a fighter type. Congratulations! He's now the trap finder / setter-offer!

Poison... it's bad. Terrible. Like not worth using unless you happen to find it and maybe not even then. Alchemists can take discoveries to make it a bit better, but it's really not enough to justify making a build (an optimized build) around. Maybe someday they'll make a good archetype around it =/

Lol, we do have one of those "head long into the fray" types, Cheapy.

If I go pure alchemist from here, will my unarmed damage be up to snuff? If I fail to do enough damage with my base unarmed strike dice, does injury poison still apply? Can multiple doses of contact poison be applied with a series of melee touch attacks?

chaoseffect wrote:
Poison... it's bad. Terrible. Like not worth using unless you happen to find it and maybe not even then. Alchemists can take discoveries to make it a bit better, but it's really not enough to justify making a build (an optimized build) around. Maybe someday they'll make a good archetype around it =/

Fortunately I'm only looking for "does good damage and routinely does cool ability damage effects" instead of truly optimized. It's a RP heavy group. Just looking for pearls of wisdom from the theory craft masters who float about this sub-forum.

And as Vishkanya I get free poison. Not piles of it, but some.

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Why not just dip into Unarmed Fighter?

Later, grab some Monk's Robes, some Brawling Armor, Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists, and Gloves of Dueling.

Also, nobody is sure if you can two weapon fighting with only unarmed strikes.

Besides, two weapon fighting is feat heavy.

i agree and disagree with chaoseffect. poisons at low level aren't a great option b/c they are sooooooooooo expensive, unless you have the ability to make your own at a much reduced cost (like Alchemist class). the cheap poisons (read: low level poisons) also have super low save DCs, so even against an arcane caster the NPC would probably have a 45-50% chance of making the initial save.

dragon bile poison and purple worm poison are nice once you can afford them, especially against Robes. Robes (especially NPC Robes) usually have awful Fortitude saves and usually have a low strength, so dealing 1d3 or more Str damage per round has a good chance of disabling Arcane Caster X in 4-6 rounds. also keep in mind the save DC increases by 2 for each dose of Poison Y the target is exposed to while under the influence of a previous dose of Poison Y. (so if you hit Robes with dragon bile at DC 26, he fails the save, then you hit him again with dragon bile, he has to make a DC28 save. if he fails that save, which is highly likely, Robes is now taking 2d3 Str damage per round..... not bad!!)

I see your point with high end poisons, but at the same time that requires multiple doses off an expensive one shot item, and takes several rounds to do its job; I rarely see any encounter go beyond 3 or 4 rounds (and if it does it's just clean up at that point).

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, there is the Poison Bomb.

If I take vivisectionist I'll have no bombs.

My thory was to take twf (or flurry) so I could attempt to hit many times per round. With sticky poison, or the equivalent rogue talent, that means 4 doses at once out of a single "dose"(adder strike lets you put one dose on two hands) if I read everything right.

I also plan to use knockout poisons (my sleep venom, drow poison, etc) to deliver coup de grace's all over the place.

For unarmed fighting, have you looked at the feral mutagen discovery? You wont be as powerful as a monk unarmed, but you'll have sneak attack damage and better poisons.

And you could always go Master Chymist if you wanted big melee damage.

Um, 5 levels of whatever (okay, Vivisectionist is really good), then Daggermark Poisoner PrC (from the new Paths of Prestige). It's awesome.

You get to craft poisons in half the time at level 2, with level 8 it's reduced to a FULL-ROUND-ACTION. The next thing I'll just quote:

If the Daggermark poisoner has the Master Alchemist feat, she may create a number of doses of poison or antitoxin at one time equal to twice her Intelligence modifier and uses the item's pp value as its sp value when determining progress with her Craft (alchemy) checks.

Plus, you also get a bonus to detect traps (you wanted to have that, right? ^^), Toxic Tricks, a bit of sneak attack, an ability to exchange sneak attack for a higher poison DC, can apply poison to a weapon as a swift action... Did I already say that it's awesome?

If you go Vivisectionist, take the Feral Mutagen and Sticky Poison, nixing unarmed fighting. Using Natural Attacks as oppossed to unarmed strike will give you at least as many attacks, with higher to-hit, higher damage, and less investment.

IF you can swing it, take the Blade of Mercy and Extremely Fashionable traits as well as the Enforcer feat and the Cruel weapon property. This will let you shaken + sicken most creatures, giving them -2, then -4 to their saves (as well as to-hit, skills, damage, et cetera). Note that Blade of Mercy and Enforcer are from two different regions, but there are other ways to inflict nonlethal damage. I.E. take multiattack and actually wield a sap.

Note that a Lesser Poisoner's Jacket (only useful with Sticky Poison) may work for you, but it requires 13 days of continuous use to match its cost, 40 days of continuous use to match the cost if you make your own poison. Although it also adds the advantage of having whatever poison you want on the fly.

The trapfinding thing can be solved either via being a Cryptbreaker or a Preservationist (send the summons in first!). Or you could take a level dip in something with trapfinding.

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