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Petition: I nominate Ashiel to work for Paizo as Rules Consultant


Off-Topic Discussions

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Aelryinth wrote:

Wraithstrike, look at everything there.

Now, anywhere there, does it state that the summoner/caster/binder can cast spells freely on the bound creature?

There is NOTHING in what you posted, or I read elsewhere, that explicitly permits this.

Because casting a spell on the creature breaks the magic of the Prot/Evil, and the warded creature is free to leave it.

If you can find some language that a caster can do anything it likes to a Bound creature, as long as it doesn't physically disturb the circle, I'd like to see it. Because somehow that is what Ashiel believes.

Okay, really off to bed.

==Aelryinth

I don't see it as breaking the PoE spell. I think the diagram has to be broken before the creature can attack. I don't think it was the devs intent to cast spells on the creature in the circle, but I don't have any proof.


Ashiel wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Grimmy wrote:

That battle with the RPG Supastah. Who the hell summoned that thing into my thread?

Ooooh. Heh, I see. ^.^"

Y'know, I had actually thought about it and realized what was my favorite encounter I've ran ever. Like the #1 favorite. I was going to post it, but then we got into all this planar binding / charm stuff, and another 50+ pages of rule quotes and such. >.>

I <3 the rules, I really do, but I was really enjoying talking plots, story ideas, and encounters and stuff. :(

I'll begin work on writing up my favorite encounter...

Me n Tels hadn't forgotten about that.


Tels wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
To be honest, much of Ashiel's advice is stuff that's been known about the game for years and years. Heck, I might have been the one to point out the Heightened Continual Light vs Darkness over TEN YEARS AGO on the WoTC boards. I used the trick in making up a 'magic flashlight' while I was still posting on Monte Cook's boards, of all things. It was one of the great reasons for a Sorceror to take Heighten SPell...or a Cleric.
Maybe you did. I imagine that out of the thousands of people who play 3.x/PF, that it would be fair to assume many of them realized that [Light] and [Darkness] spells overpowered one another based on level, since it actually says so in the rules, and realized the Heighten raises the level of a spell. I'm pretty sure I've never claimed anyone else never found something I've suggested. It seems silly to me to even worry about such things.
I myself can attest to this. I made that same observation before Ashiel posted his guide. However, I was thinking more along the lines of Heightening Daylight, while Ashiel bumped it to the next level by Heightening Continual Flame, thereby getting a permanent light spell, without having to create a magic item.

Heightened daylight is a cool idea too. Daylight is noticeably more powerful. Kind of sad that you can't make it permanent via the spell. That would be a really cool central light in a cathedral / temple to a god of light. :o

I guess lots of little continual flames could work, but I think the daylight would be cooler for a sun god or goddess, and little continual flames for a night god or goddess (stars & moons and such on a big painted ceiling would look so cool).


Tels wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
To be honest, much of Ashiel's advice is stuff that's been known about the game for years and years. Heck, I might have been the one to point out the Heightened Continual Light vs Darkness over TEN YEARS AGO on the WoTC boards. I used the trick in making up a 'magic flashlight' while I was still posting on Monte Cook's boards, of all things. It was one of the great reasons for a Sorceror to take Heighten SPell...or a Cleric.
Maybe you did. I imagine that out of the thousands of people who play 3.x/PF, that it would be fair to assume many of them realized that [Light] and [Darkness] spells overpowered one another based on level, since it actually says so in the rules, and realized the Heighten raises the level of a spell. I'm pretty sure I've never claimed anyone else never found something I've suggested. It seems silly to me to even worry about such things.
I myself can attest to this. I made that same observation before Ashiel posted his guide. However, I was thinking more along the lines of Heightening Daylight, while Ashiel bumped it to the next level by Heightening Continual Flame, thereby getting a permanent light spell, without having to create a magic item.

Heightened daylight is a cool idea too. Daylight is noticeably more powerful. Kind of sad that you can't make it permanent via the spell. That would be a really cool central light in a cathedral / temple to a god of light. :o

I guess lots of little continual flames could work, but I think the daylight would be cooler for a sun god or goddess, and little continual flames for a night god or goddess (stars & moons and such on a big painted ceiling would look so cool).


Grimmy wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Grimmy wrote:

That battle with the RPG Supastah. Who the hell summoned that thing into my thread?

Ooooh. Heh, I see. ^.^"

Y'know, I had actually thought about it and realized what was my favorite encounter I've ran ever. Like the #1 favorite. I was going to post it, but then we got into all this planar binding / charm stuff, and another 50+ pages of rule quotes and such. >.>

I <3 the rules, I really do, but I was really enjoying talking plots, story ideas, and encounters and stuff. :(

I'll begin work on writing up my favorite encounter...

Me n Tels hadn't forgotten about that.

Correct, I did not, but I wasn't going to bring it up. I figure Ashiel is probably fairly busy writing his PDF's for his own setting, and other things, that I wasn't going to badger him for my own entertainment :P


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Tels wrote:
Is it just me, or is it every time certain posters got to sleep, work or w/e, we stop discussing rules and start discussing fun things? But the second they come back, it's right back to arguing over rules and interpretations.

...yuuuuuup. Though the rules debates have been interesting enough too, I'll concede. At least it's something new! (That said, having just read 80 new posts, either I'm clearly a masochist or some people just really need to let it drop.) The assertion that Ashiel is bending the rules to make her point is really getting tiresome. Ashiel works with the RAW beautifully. I'd go so far to say better than nearly everyone in this thread. Ashiel's made the RAW his/her b%*$&.

And I hadn't forgotten! I'm here for the promise of story time! :P


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Twigs wrote:
And I hadn't forgotten! I'm here for the promise of story time! :P

Oh no! I left my blankie at home!


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So now while the world sleeps the cult of Ashiel huddles together, plotting new ways to ruin the game of dungeons & dragons forever...


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Grimmy wrote:
So now while the world sleeps the cult of Ashiel huddles together, plotting new ways to ruin the game of dungeons & dragons forever...

Can I be the attack dog?


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Yes but you must attack with lax interpretations of the rules, as Ashiel has taught us...


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Grimmy wrote:
Yes but you must attack with lax interpretations of the rules, as Ashiel has taught us...

No, no, no, I would be the one that attacks the arguments of those that think they can point out holes in Ashiel's arguments.


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So do we bathe our Core Rulebooks in the blood of infants NOW or wait for the full moon? I must have skimmed the brochure... </snark>


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Twigs wrote:
So do we bathe our Core Rulebooks in the blood of infants NOW or wait for the full moon? I must have skimmed the brochure... </snark>

Infants? I used Blood of the Ghaele Azata I bound to my service...


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Remember, when you share your creative ideas, do it only to ruin the game. Target the youth with fewer then 1000 posts for only they will fall for our seductive lies.
And hold fast to the core tenets of the faith: glowing rocks are stealthy, cannibalism is fine, and everyone deserves several genie simulacrums...


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Yessssssss... the Simulacrums... Yeesssssssss...


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Grimmy wrote:

Remember, when you share your creative ideas, do it only to ruin the game. Target the youth with fewer then 1000 posts for only they will fall for our seductive lies.

And hold fast to the core tenets of the faith: glowing rocks are stealthy, cannibalism is fine, and everyone deserves several genie simulacrums...

I hear and obey.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Grimmy wrote:

Remember, when you share your creative ideas, do it only to ruin the game. Target the youth with fewer then 1000 posts for only they will fall for our seductive lies.

And hold fast to the core tenets of the faith: glowing rocks are stealthy, cannibalism is fine, and everyone deserves several genie simulacrums...

Don't forget burning heretics who think continual flame makes an item magical.


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LOL.


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Twigs wrote:
So do we bathe our Core Rulebooks in the blood of infants NOW or wait for the full moon? I must have skimmed the brochure... </snark>

Bathe your core rule book constantly, stain its pages red. Only the blood of infants has the power to ruin the game of dungeons & dragons once and for all...


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Remember, when fighting dragons, beware the armor.


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wraithstrike wrote:
LOL.

Join us, Lord Wraithstrike. Your talents and knowledge will greatly aid us on elevating Ashiel to divinity.


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I will start work on the first two books for our propaganda movement.

System Mastery Book 1:How to Game the Game.
System Mastery Book 2:Loopholes Explored and Exploited.


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My favorite encounter ever. Whoo boy, this one is kind of old, but it's always held a special place in my heart. It's a wonder I didn't think of it immediately. Well, here goes...

It was the final battle of a campaign that I ran for my friends that spanned from 1st-20th level. I ran the game a little sand-boxy, set in the Forgotten Realms, on the western side of the main continent, along the sword coast. The party began mostly towards the northernmost regions and worked their way down the coastline, eventually settling themselves not far from the city of Neverwinter.

Looking back on the campaign, it was a bit different than most I had ran. I included a GM-controlled PC built character as a regular character and friend to the group. We played most chances we got, and there were lots of little mini-adventures and virtually everything was a side quest, as there was no obvious direction for the game. At least at first. We didn't sweat who showed up for the game. Sometimes we had 2 players + GM, sometimes 3 + GM, and occasionally we all showed up and had around 6 + GM. We didn't sweat keeping levels even as nobody was particularly competitive (couldn't be, because you needed your friends), and so we ended up with groups with levels that were sometimes separated by a few levels.

The party consisted of a human barbarian w/horse, a hobgoblin warblade, a halfling shugenja (healing focused), a human abjurer, a kobold sorcerer who eventually became an arclich, and the tiefling conjurer mentioned before. A motley crew to be sure, but all fiercely loyal. During the very first adventure in the campaign, the kobold was wandering alone (the other players had yet to arrive) and ended up wandering the cold wastes alone after being exiled from his home for petitioning for the rights of those kobolds without sorcererous power (they were a mageocracy that was almost like a theocracy). When he collapsed after getting overwhelmed by some hungry dogs, he awoke inside a tent with the tiefling who had chased the dogs off and collected the cold little guy up and warmed him. Such was the beginning of a fiercely loyal friendship that lasted right up until the end of the campaign. Two outcasts, two practitioners of magic.

Later they met up with the Barbarian from the western islands along the edges of the coast. She was traveling to make a name for herself to bring glory to her tribe and people. Fearless and savage, she was a terrible force to be reckoned with. Eventually she became an unstoppable berserker who would tear through the legions of the wicked, but when they met her, she was just getting drunk in a snow lodge at the edge of a ferry-crossing. It was there that the met the hobgoblin warblade as well, whose motivations including getting rich and getting richer. The four of them hooked up when they found that the ferryman was hiring on some extra guards to make the trip with them, because people were being found dead along the trails across the river.

On the ferry, the party met an unlikely wizard who was a former farmer's son and taken up as an apprentice by a wise wandering wizard. He carried a big battleaxe that his father gave him, and he used to weave his magics. Along with him was the halfling shugenja who sought to heal the world, one wound at a time. Socializing gave way to an ambush when the party was attacked by orcs with bows, covered in white cloaks to blend in with the snowy mountains. After driving them off and saving the other less heroic travelers, the party had formed properly and headed south to find their destinies.

From there, their stories too them to dwarf holds where they rescued dwarf maidens from evil ghouls and their skeletal hordes, and deep into forests with ancient gates to other places, and across the rocky crags of the cliffsides overlooking the sea. They made a name for themselves, slowly, and surely. As their power grew, so too did their ambition. The barbarian became less interested in honor and more interested in the welfare of the people of the land. The abjurer began building a school of magic that would turn away no one due to their inability to pay tuition. The shugenja built hospitals and mended ties between people. The kobold rose up and became a mighty lich and extended his reach back to his homeland, where he overthrew the evil tyrants who cast him out years ago and took his people on an exodus to a new home where he had prepared. The warblade slowly realized wealth was worth less than the faith of others. The conjurer delved into her own darkness and found a light inside, becoming a malconvoker who would lite the darkness with a bold and black flame. Slowly the seeds of the land were growing in their hearts. They knew the people who lived here. They contested the evils, and they slowly became one with the world. No longer were they mere travelers, but walking forces and legends...

It was not long after this point that the Arcane Brotherhood in Waterdeep began to target the party. After the party found evidence that the brotherhood was up to more evil than usual, they began to make their way down the trail of troubles. On that trail, the brotherhood sent magical assassins. After a particularly terrifying ordeal where the party was ambushed by teleporting wizards throwing fireballs at them and overcoming it only because of their abjurer's great experience in wards and shields, they went into hiding. An underground war they would wage with the brotherhood. Suddenly the heroes of the land were seemingly gone, hidden by arcane sanctums where they lay their heads, and searching for the secrets to the brotherhood's plans.

Through careful divinations, the party intercepted some of the brotherhood's minions and discovered that the crazed wizard college was going to be preforming a great ritual to call forth a terrible fiend of incredible power from a long forgotten plane of existence. They continued to build their power, anxiously awaiting the point where the ritual would be completed. The party wasted no time using every force in their power to prepare for an invasion of the very spire of the arcane brotherhood. Each took a task and began it. The abjurer and sorcerer set to building a grand airship beneath the surface of the sorcerer's town. The conjurer called forth aid in the form of efreeti and made simple deals to increase the strengths of her allies, eventually leading to a side-quest where they ventured to the elemental plane of fire to deal with a terrible dragon who was bullying some of the efreeti. The shugenja prepared magical elixers and tools to use during their invasion. Everything to tip the scales in their favor. They were, after all, going to head into the very heart of a school of black magicians; past the vaulted doors; where impossible things happen and evil lurks the halls.

Finally, the time that the ritual would come was nearing its most crucial point. The party readied themselves, took their most powerful scrolls, every weapon they could carry, layered bandoliers with potion and elixer vials. They vested themselves with the most powerful creations they could manage to create, and fired up the engines of the massive airship crewed by the sorcerer's followers. It was time to save the sword coast, and they weren't getting any second chances...

The Arcane Brotherhood had word of their coming. The imps and diviners filling the damned school of wizardry had long since perceived their arrival and were ready. It was a warzone. The party was met coming towards the tower by wizards riding atop wyverns, throwing spells at the massive airship. Within moments the battle was on. Into the skies the warriors too, armed with the spell protections of the abjurer, who sweeped the fireballs aside with the might of his magic (specifically, he asked if he could use a telekinetic sphere and use it to intercept incoming projectiles if he was fast enough, and I thought that was an interesting idea, and allowed it 'cause I'm not all tacks and nails). The party forced their way past the initial spellcasters and their minions. Above the tower, they bombed it with everything that the airship had to give. Crushing a hole in the top of the tower's highest floor, the party descended into the highest point of the tower and made their way downward...

Guarding the hallways and teleportation circles were powerful demons such as vrocks and even once they encountered a balor who tried to tear the party apart. However, they were no match for the party's combination attacks and the might of their soul-wrenching magics. They hewed their way deeper, and deeper into the tower as the clock ticked down to the moment of truth. Finally the party found their way to the summoning chamber, where the eldest of the brotherhood were finishing the ritual. The ritual was nearly complete and no longer needed their full attention, and the battle of their lives began.

Almost immediately as the party emerged into the room, the evil casters aimed their wrath at the party's abjurer and unleashed the full force of their anger, ripping his soul from his chest, killing him instantly. Without missing a beat the party called their magics and their scrolls forth, shouting "Let it be undone!!", rewinding time for a brief moment and allowing the abjurer to activate his moment of prescience and shake off the spell. Immediately the abjurer drew his own scroll and cried out "Freeze the rivers of the past, stay the winds of the future, and silence the clock of the hour!" and all was still. One after one he began to call forth protective wards set magical traps across the field. He ended by preparing to crush the next enemy caster as time suddenly kicked back into focus.

Without skipping a beat, the malconvoker did much the same. Slowing the hourglass of time to a halt she began to drag the very hells up against the might of the wizards, surrounding the dark masters with their future peers, and then dropping a few eyedrops and clarifying her sight to pierce the magic of those who would destroy the land.

The barbarian leaped over the devils and demons whose shackles made their way to the tiefling, and began tearing into the ranks of the mages. He broke through their attempts to hurl him with telekinesis into a spiked statue, and before long he was joined by the warblade who moved through the ranks of the summons, screaming loudly as he shrugged off spell after spell as if he swung his holy blade wide and cut down their own minions with as much ease as they were summoned.

The shugenja unleashed many wall spells, and healed his allies through the vast amounts of damage and harm they were suffering. It seemed as if the battle would be won. Dismissed were the fiends that they called to their aid, and the might of his water elementals flowed through the great hall like a torrent of righteous fury.

The sorcerer unleashed waves of shadow magic, and assumed his true form as the descendant of the dragons that he was. He transformed into a mighty black dragon, and unleashed his acidic death through the room, tearing the place apart. A mighty roar signaled that the end was near...

However, what the party did not yet realize as the wizards laughed and fled from the chamber was the ritual was too far gone to stop. Out from the depths of the giant circle they prepared crawled a gargantuan outsider of terrible strength and power. They were too late. "Push it back!" cried the abjurer. "We can't stop now!" the shugenja added. The barbarian let out nothing but a warcry to end warcries, and lept at the fiend. The fiend smashed the barbarian aside with far too much ease, and the bloody wounds were already mending themselves at rapid pace. The warblade lept, carving his holy blade through the black fire of the ancient evil, but he too was thrown aside as the demon unleashed hellfire throughout the room, scorching the party mercilessly. The summoned monsters vanished from existence as they touched him, and the abjurer and convoker warned that the being was too powerful for their spells to affect (but determined that his spell resistance was tied to his HD).

The sorcerer rushed forward and engaged him, hoping that the strength of his draconic scales would hold out along with his ironskins against the demon's might. It did not take long to see it would not, but the party continued the fight in earnest. "Damnit..." the tiefling exclaimed, knowing she could nail his coffin shut if he was weakened with her 9th level flesh to stone. So too did the shugenja believe that he could banish him, but with such powerful resistances, how!? The abjurerer had a powerful acidic death ball waiting to dissolve him with, but with his resistances there would be no prayer. The barbarian raged onward, but was thwacked aside, unable to deal enough damage to put it down, and the warblade was taking a heinous beating from the creature's powerful auras and natural attacks.

All seemed lost, until the shugenja had a sudden an unexpected idea. He ran to the warblade and cast death ward on the warblade. As the spiritual armor encased the hobgoblin, he questioned the shugenja, "What is this for!? He's not using death magic!", but the shugenja said "No, but we are! Reach into my bag and draw the drinking axe!" he said. The warblade was confused but did as he was told, and surely the life-drinker was atop the haversack's piles of treasure. "I...get it!" the warblade said. "Hold him down!!" the warblade exclaimed. In that moment, every summoned creature lunged onto the beast, and the barbarian leaped in to flank and harass him. The dragon-kobold melted the floor beneath the demon into a murky pit of acid and stone. "Try this on big boy!" the warblade said, taking a powerful stance and going into a whirlwind of terrible attacks. As his enemies grabbed him (aid another), the attacks landed true, true, and truer still. With each slash the wound closed by bit by bit the demon's life force was rended from his flesh, swallowed up by the axe's mighty head.

The demon unleashed a final furious assault, holding nothing back. The very room shook as he unleashed a full attack and quickened death across the party. The warblade was nearly dead, the barbarian was wounded, the sorcerer thrown to the ground, and the summons torn apart. The demon roared with terrible fury, and laughed as it had knew it was victorious. "Foolish mortals!" he laughed, lifting the warblade into the air, the demon's wounds closing as fast as they were made. "Heh, foolish immortals..." the warblade laughed. The demon looked back to the shugenja, conjurer, and abjurer. "Huh!?" he muttered as with eldritch flares in their eyes they shouted "Fire!", and unleashed all their readied spells. "Noooooooo-----!!" the fiend cried as his flesh began to transform to stone, and the acid blasts began to melt the stone, and the remnants cast back into the hellish plane whence it came.

The room filled with eldritch power, as the nearly divine being imploded from the combined assault of the entire team. His radiant energy cascading across them, filling them with a new power they had not known yet, and would soon discover. The room fell to silence. The shugenja healed the ones who had fallen. "Did we do it?" the barbarian asked as she came to. "Yeah...I think we did." the kobold lich said as he transformed back from dragon form. "The city...no, the continent is safe once more." the abjurer said. "But they got away..." the tiefling said. "We'll be here if they return..." the warblade said, sheathing his weapons. "Just...hopefully not today."

========================================================================
The reason this encounter (the one with the fiend) is my favorite is because of how the party dealt with it. The monster was custom made and was arguably as powerful as the tarrasque without being cheap, but it was indeed loaded with spell resistance, saving throws, fast healing and regeneration (this was a late 3.5 game), and a noticeably high AC. The group was doing little more than slowing down the fiend's advances, but the shugenja had thought to use the life-drinker over the warblade's +5 sword of demonic asswhupping (I think it was a +5 holy evil outsider bane sword), which they had found in a dungeon a few sessions prior as random treasure. When they found that it dealt negative levels to both the wielder and the victim, they quirked a brow and said "Well...that's not that useful but...it sounds interesting. We'll keep it". The moment was like an epiphany, and turned the battle. The creature got whacked with the axe many times and that resulted in a -14 to his SR and all his saving throws. After that, it was a matter of hammering in the nails and dropping him 6 feet under.

Looking back, I think it's still the favorite encounter of mine out of 12 years of GMing. A certain encounter with a lich that ended in a chess game between the lich and the party cleric would have to be #2 most definitely.


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So it begins.


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wraithstrike wrote:

I will start work on the first two books for our propaganda movement.

System Mastery Book 1:How to Game the Game.
System Mastery Book 2:Loopholes Explored and Exploited.

Don't forget:

System Mastery Book 3: Beasting the Beastiary.
System Mastery Book 4: Tactics for the Tactless.


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The Master has Returned!


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Twigs wrote:
Tels wrote:
Is it just me, or is it every time certain posters got to sleep, work or w/e, we stop discussing rules and start discussing fun things? But the second they come back, it's right back to arguing over rules and interpretations.

...yuuuuuup. Though the rules debates have been interesting enough too, I'll concede. At least it's something new! (That said, having just read 80 new posts, either I'm clearly a masochist or some people just really need to let it drop.) The assertion that Ashiel is bending the rules to make her point is really getting tiresome. Ashiel works with the RAW beautifully. I'd go so far to say better than nearly everyone in this thread. Ashiel's made the RAW his/her b++~&.

And I hadn't forgotten! I'm here for the promise of story time! :P

First off, wow, thank you. ^.^

Secondly, I laughed so hard at every post following this one, and everyone got a favorite I think. You guys make it totally worth it to put up with all the hassle. XD

EDIT: Completely off topic (well, there's not really a one true topic in this thread anymore and I'm fine with that :P), but I was watching The Prince of Egypt today. I haven't seen this movie in years (I was a lot younger when I did), but I have a huge appreciation for the music now. Listening to this one on loop 'cause it's so epic. :D

EDIT 2: In fact, the scene the music plays in is really amazing and implements really wonderful and emotional visuals. I highly recommend this movie to anyone who likes epic stories, regardless of religious persuasion. :3


That was an incredible story. Really one of the best gaming I've ever heard of.


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Tels wrote:
That was an incredible story. Really one of the best gaming I've ever heard of.

Glad you enjoyed it. I took some artistic liberties with the retelling (because honestly just describing the story in CR X vs APL Y + action by action would become incredibly dry after a bit, I think); but it was purely descriptive liberties. All of the stuff mentioned actually did occur (along with a lot of OOC talk :P).


So what are the most memorable encounters you other Cultists have had?


Arcane Toolbox wrote:

Back tot the original topic as noted: Petition: I nominate Ashiel to work for Paizo as Rules Consultant

I have been gaming with Ashiel for the past eight years. So, I would bias like to nominate him for a paizo rules consultant; however, i would like to make a few objective statements about Ashiel as a Pathfinder/D&D enthusiast and as a DM.
-Ashiel has always found balanced ways to formulate characters, games, and tactics
-As a player, he forces a DM to appreciate the mechanics of the game (not as a munchkin). Ashiel has an astounding ability to make a character with a well thought out background and still have skills and talents that fit his story. What i am trying to say here is that he showed me that Pathfinder is not a game of power but a game of tactics and ingenuity. He has showed me that Pathfinder is not a table top version of some hack and slash side scroller. Each encounter is a game of chess where the first few moves can mean a swift encounter or certain death for some or all of the party members and potentially other npcs (not necessarily the ones that want to kill you).
-As a DM I have never hear him say "no" to a character idea (and their have been some outlandish ones). He has always formulated a way to make someones character dreams possible without being over powered or being overshadowed by rest of the party.
-Lastly, our gaming group has evolved in knowledge and tactics throughout our years of tabletop gaming. Above all I look for only two things in a game: for there to be an interesting story (if i find a book with a tenth of the story that our games have i am guaranteed to have just found a NYT best seller or a classic used in scholarly study) and a challenge (why would anyone play a game where victory was assured?). And, when i play in Ashiel's games i always find both.

Seeing all this, I want to replace my current DM with Ashiel. I am frustrated with how few people can really mix the RP and gaming elements of Pathfinder / 3.5e / other TTRPGs and make it an enjoyable experience. If what this quote says is true, then Ashiel is one of the few who actually manages to do that, and I give props for that. I also bet my rather outlandish homebrew race ideas wouldn't scare him away either :D


Icyshadow wrote:
Arcane Toolbox wrote:

Back tot the original topic as noted: Petition: I nominate Ashiel to work for Paizo as Rules Consultant

I have been gaming with Ashiel for the past eight years. So, I would bias like to nominate him for a paizo rules consultant; however, i would like to make a few objective statements about Ashiel as a Pathfinder/D&D enthusiast and as a DM.
-Ashiel has always found balanced ways to formulate characters, games, and tactics
-As a player, he forces a DM to appreciate the mechanics of the game (not as a munchkin). Ashiel has an astounding ability to make a character with a well thought out background and still have skills and talents that fit his story. What i am trying to say here is that he showed me that Pathfinder is not a game of power but a game of tactics and ingenuity. He has showed me that Pathfinder is not a table top version of some hack and slash side scroller. Each encounter is a game of chess where the first few moves can mean a swift encounter or certain death for some or all of the party members and potentially other npcs (not necessarily the ones that want to kill you).
-As a DM I have never hear him say "no" to a character idea (and their have been some outlandish ones). He has always formulated a way to make someones character dreams possible without being over powered or being overshadowed by rest of the party.
-Lastly, our gaming group has evolved in knowledge and tactics throughout our years of tabletop gaming. Above all I look for only two things in a game: for there to be an interesting story (if i find a book with a tenth of the story that our games have i am guaranteed to have just found a NYT best seller or a classic used in scholarly study) and a challenge (why would anyone play a game where victory was assured?). And, when i play in Ashiel's games i always find both.
Seeing all this, I want to replace my current DM with Ashiel. I am frustrated with how...

I think it would be great fun to play either in Ashiels game. I feel there is a lot I could learn, as a player and GM, in such a situation.

Liberty's Edge

Talonhawke wrote:

Depends is it pufferfish?

What is harmful about killing your wife?

The consequences.

Have I mentioned it is a first level spell, or that it specifically says that it makes you friendly as per the diplomacy rules (Not even fully helpful, just friendly)

Charm isn't dominate or control. It allows you to make someone who doesn't like you, like you.

That is it.

Reading more into it is coming from the reader, not the rule.

Liberty's Edge

wraithstrike wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
Since when is assigning modifiers to checks GM fiat? Seriously?

It always is when the the rules define them flatly.

Skill checks are given more leeway, but the charm spell list a specific formula for the spell. Any time you alter a rule it is GM Fiat. That is basically what GM Fiat is.

If you mean it references that the player is not friendly, subject to the diplomacy rules and therefore the diplomacy charisma checks for requests apply, I agree.

Anything more, I don't.


ciretose wrote:
Talonhawke wrote:

Depends is it pufferfish?

What is harmful about killing your wife?

The consequences.

Have I mentioned it is a first level spell, or that it specifically says that it makes you friendly as per the diplomacy rules (Not even fully helpful, just friendly)

Charm isn't dominate or control. It allows you to make someone who doesn't like you, like you.

That is it.

Reading more into it is coming from the reader, not the rule.

Again you completely ignore the other half of the spell. You can't even argue what the spell does, unless you read the full spell. You are so fixated on the Diplomacy aspect, you ignore anything else that doesn't fit into your view point.

Liberty's Edge

Ashiel wrote:


It doesn't have to. It specifically lists what sorts of effects will remove geas. Greater restoration is not on that list. But I'll accept that it could be contested. So I guess now we just need the ghaele to pull a 5,000 gp diamond out of her butt and rest undisturbed for some time to re-prepare her spells.

Perhaps for the 24 hours it will take for the Geas to start having any negative effects in the first place, per the spell.

Liberty's Edge

Icyshadow wrote:


1. If you have a friend, you can ask him to do favors for you.

Perhaps read what is posted before you jump in, unless the taste of your foot makes you happy.

You can ask a friend to do favors, it is under the diplomacy rules.

What has been said, more or less, is that the DC to ask a friend to babysit is the same as asking them to kill their wife.

Do you agree with that?

Liberty's Edge

They are allowed to issue an order (aka make a request). This is ALWAYS adjudicated by a charisma check, with the DC determined by the GM, generally based on the diplomacy guidelines.

Your reading makes charm more powerful than dominate.

Also, I've been asleep for 8 hours and I come back and someone blames me for the mess that happened while I was asleep...seriously?


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ciretose wrote:

They are allowed to issue an order (aka make a request). This is ALWAYS adjudicated by a charisma check, with the DC determined by the GM, generally based on the diplomacy guidelines.

Your reading makes charm more powerful than dominate.

Also, I've been asleep for 8 hours and I come back and someone blames me for the mess that happened while I was asleep...seriously?

Seriously? SERIOUSLY? And you claim Ashiel of ignoring rules.

Charm Person wrote:
You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do.

An 'opposed check' is an 'opposed check'. That means the Caster rolls 1d20 + Charsma Mod, and the Charmed creature rolls 1d20 + Charisma Mod. Whoever gets the higher total, wins the opposed check.

It doesn't say 'DC based off Diplomacy' it says, opposed check.

[Edit] By the way, an Order is an Order, not a request.

Dictionary.com wrote:

Order-noun

1. an authoritative direction or instruction; command; mandate.
2. a command of a court or judge.
3. a command or notice issued by a military organization or a military commander to troops, sailors, etc.

Please, tell me where it says 'request' in the definition of the word, 'order'.

Silver Crusade

The spell description does say 'orders' and 'commands'. That languages is a bit stronger than a 'request', though that word would sound more fitting for the spell.

Liberty's Edge

Fine, I'll do it again. Charm monster says see charm person. Charm person says:

"This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target's attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person's language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming."

The spell makes them like you. The first paragraph states what the spell does, generally. It makes them "Treat you as a trusted ally". Then it defines what that means, relative to the rules "(treat the target's attitude as friendly). I don't see how they could write more clearly that what you are doing is making an enemy (treated as hostile for example under diplomacy) into someone not an enemy (someone friendly).

The second paragraph goes into explaining the person (or creature in this case) is NOT an automaton, meaning they have free will and act as they would normally, except they percieve your words and actions in the most favorable way.

The opposed charisma check is the same as a diplomacy check to make a request, meaning it has modifiers adjudicated by the GM based on what you are asking them to do.

Because they are not an automaton.

Feel free to create a thread and FAQ it. I would FAQ it here, but we can't. I'm getting ready to go to work, but I'm sure I will be blamed for whatever else happens in the thread while I'm there as well...


Charm Person Thread.

I love the fact you are still ignoring the fact that if the Charmed creature fails the opposed check, it is convinced to follow through with the order.

Making the target friendly determines what the creature will do without having to order it. If you require something more than the friendly disposition allows, then you need to issue an order.

Opposed Check is not a Diplomacy DC.

Liberty's Edge

Let's move it over to the other thread...well...when I get home from work maybe I'll move it over there...I'm betting it will be over 500 or locked...:)

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