How about it ? Back in the days, there were several games based on D&D, or similar to D&D, like these:
- Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow over Mystara
- King of Dragons
There have been a resurgence of the beat-em-up genre today, with a game such as this:
- Dragon's Crown
These games are short and not as complicated to make as lenghty RPGs. What I mean is that I'd like to see a Pathfinder game like the ones above as a downloadable title.
The concept could be simple too:
- 2D graphics, or 3D graphics on 2D planes
- 21 playable characters (Pathfinder has 21 classes so far, so you could have 21 available PCs, based on the example characters, which would add replay value and multiplayer support)
- Different enemies and bosses (goblins, koblins, lizardfolks, gnolls, etc)
- 21 levels (I have in mind 3 different paths, 9 levels each, like 3 little adventures)
- beat-em-up genre
- level-up and item system
- available for XBOX Live Arcade, PlayStation Network, Wii Virtual Console, Nintendo eShop and Steam
- PROFITS !
That's just an idea like that, but I would like to see a Pathfinder-based video game at some point.
Well... have you heard about the MMORPG yet?
Well, anyone who wants a computer game based on the Pathfinder rules had better go start telling Wizards of the Coast to make another game based on the d20 ruleset - cause Paizo ain't allowed to.
And some would say that as long as they get the setting right, they can base the rules on parcheesi. ;)
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I just want SOMEONE to make a Final Fantasy: Tactics style game using d20. It should, in theory, be super easy to do, and it would be fairly simple to stay faithful to the rules and really make it like a turn based dungeon crawl. It'd be awesome.
I just want SOMEONE to make a Final Fantasy: Tactics style game using d20. It should, in theory, be super easy to do, and it would be fairly simple to stay faithful to the rules and really make it like a turn based dungeon crawl. It'd be awesome.
Dungeons and Dragons Tactics[TM] for the PSP. It's pretty awesome, but does not allow multi-classing if that's what you are looking for. Also, back in the beginning of the century, a game called Temple of Elemental Evil came out using the full 3.5 rule set. It was an awesome translation of pnp game play to the video game medium. It did, however, have some pretty terrible glitches that could stop your progress.
I just want SOMEONE to make a Final Fantasy: Tactics style game using d20. It should, in theory, be super easy to do, and it would be fairly simple to stay faithful to the rules and really make it like a turn based dungeon crawl. It'd be awesome.One of the main guys on Final Fantasy Tactics is working on a Tabletop-style video game RPG right now. That's kinda similar.
Any name or anything I could google or a link? I'd be really interested in something like that.
Paizo might not be able to do something like that- they tend to license out to other what they aren't able to do inhouse.
I'm sure that if there some third party company out there that's willing to use the 3.5 OGL parts of PF to make some sort of video game though, it might draw some interest.
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The OGL is notoriously unclear on how it sits with computer games. What little explanation did WotC provide in OGL FAQ shows that it would be rather hard to use it for a videogame. And I do think that Paizo would prefer to keep themselves as far away as possible from even the most remote chance of a lawsuit. We're talking direct competitors here.
No?
I have no idea how big paizo is at the moment, but I doubt they could do a video game on their own without some serious risk.
Also, I thought that there was already a cooperation that has bought the rights to make video games out of Pathfinder, I can be wrong though.
Edit: yep, goblinsworks announced that they work on PF online MMORPG, probably not what you're looking for. I would love a Baldurs Gate pathfinderezed too.
Any name or anything I could google or a link? I'd be really interested in something like that.I just want SOMEONE to make a Final Fantasy: Tactics style game using d20. It should, in theory, be super easy to do, and it would be fairly simple to stay faithful to the rules and really make it like a turn based dungeon crawl. It'd be awesome.One of the main guys on Final Fantasy Tactics is working on a Tabletop-style video game RPG right now. That's kinda similar.It's called Crimson Shroud.
...I'm sure it's supposed to be "tabletop RPG", not "tabletalk RPG". I don't know what a "tabletalk RPG" is. Either way, it looks pretty cool.
Thanks. That looks really interesting.
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Tactics is seconded; i'd also buy a straight regular final fantasy style RPG based on pathfinder.
On the MMO... what is the teams obsession with having players build stuff? I for one, enjoy questing, killing, and exploring the world and enjoying the story of the Campaign Setting. If I have to endure massive time doing things like building crap and other mundane things, this game will not get my money. Also heard they are taking out the normal level system and trying to make a time-based exp. gain like Eve. Blek. No point in questing if I can't level from the cool stuff I do, killing giant dragons included.
Something like Baldurs Gate would be cool, but more modern.
edit:
Some solo players won't even leave town. They'll become masters of crafting and market warfare, using their canny ability to time swings in prices and to identify opportunities for arbitrage to make their fortune. These spreadsheet warriors will be ready to pounce on the pricing mistakes of their less focused competitors, and can be the secret to success for the forces engaged in territorial warfare. (Or their downfall—a canny merchant never forgets a previous slight or betrayal.)
Sorry, every time I check out the MMO stuff I get pissed. Spreadsheet warriors? Oi, stop trying to convince me that normal rpg stuff is bad. If I want to do this stuff, I'll just goto work. In an office. Extra-Blek. Sorry for the tangent... you know, I really DO hope Paizo makes a game that is just simple and fun, budget aside.
Goblin Squad Member
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Tactics is seconded; i'd also buy a straight regular final fantasy style RPG based on pathfinder.
On the MMO... what is the teams obsession with having players build stuff? I for one, enjoy questing, killing, and exploring the world and enjoying the story of the Campaign Setting. If I have to endure massive time doing things like building crap and other mundane things, this game will not get my money. Also heard they are taking out the normal level system and trying to make a time-based exp. gain like Eve. Blek. No point in questing if I can't level from the cool stuff I do, killing giant dragons included.
Something like Baldurs Gate would be cool, but more modern.
edit:
Some solo players won't even leave town. They'll become masters of crafting and market warfare, using their canny ability to time swings in prices and to identify opportunities for arbitrage to make their fortune. These spreadsheet warriors will be ready to pounce on the pricing mistakes of their less focused competitors, and can be the secret to success for the forces engaged in territorial warfare. (Or their downfall—a canny merchant never forgets a previous slight or betrayal.)Sorry, every time I check out the MMO stuff I get pissed. Spreadsheet warriors? Oi, stop trying to convince me that normal rpg stuff is bad. If I want to do this stuff, I'll just goto work. In an office. Extra-Blek. Sorry for the tangent... you know, I really DO hope Paizo makes a game that is just simple and fun, budget aside.
Ever consider a lot of people might work manual labor factory/construction jobs and welcome the opportunity to come home and do something constructive? To actually use their creativity to build something for themselves versus just for other people? Or maybe there are soldiers out training to kill...or maybe they are actually doing it, and they just want to build something instead of destroying. This may seem far fetched, but your excuse about having to work in an office is your own personal experience, others might be different. Besides, it is not like you are getting any more exercise from "adventuring" than you are from making spreadsheets, I don't really see the difference between either and sitting in an office.
As for:
No point in questing if I can't level from the cool stuff I do, killing giant dragons included.
You could just do it because you enjoy it...(and maybe you like hanging out with the people you do it with).
The good thing about this type of MMO is illustrated in exactly the sentence you hated: "some solo players won't leave town."...this means IF you want to leave town and go "adventuring" (aka, "normal rpg stuff"), then go. No one is stopping you or discouraging you. In fact, while you are out, as a crafter/merchant I constantly need rare mats...here is my latest grocery list, I will pay you for any you might run across...
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's interesting to me to see the different perspectives people have.
I work with a guy who is just flat-out done with any game that involves leveling up over time. He wants to build his character and play that character as-is, without having to grind xp, or wait for new abilities, etc.
My wife really loves the task-based quests (bring me 15 wolf hides) and is a little afraid that she won't feel like she has something to do in PFO.
For my part, I think I'm squarely in GW's target audience. I hate grinding up levels and the way it taints my in-game actions by forcing me to trudge through mindless quests or mindless slaughter.
Meophist....that is a text adventure game. Albeit it can still be good for it is but I personally think computer games have come further...if not too far lately...
Nihimon, this view, that you don't want to "grind" doesn't belong in a D&D world which has ALWAYS been about "grinding" up levels. I know it can feel frustrating that you actually have to work for something (another word for grinding more or less) but I think it belongs here.
Otherwise youre getting closer to FPS games again...
...which can be good in itself...but hopefully not here...
The only thing I can agree to is that the "grinding" shouldn't be too monotonius...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, this view, that you don't want to "grind" doesn't belong in a D&D world which has ALWAYS been about "grinding" up levels.
Actually, there's a very real difference between "grinding" and "leveling".
Grinding is doing something tedious over and over for the sole purpose of gaining levels.
Leveling is playing the game and gaining levels as a side-effect of that play.
Imagine if the most effective way to gain experience and level up was to stand in front of a target dummy and hit the 1 key over and over. People who chose to do this would be "grinding". People who chose instead to go out and do quests or explore new areas would be "leveling".
Do you see the difference?
I know it can feel frustrating that you actually have to work for something (another word for grinding more or less) but I think it belongs here.
That was extremely patronizing, now wasn't it?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, this view, that you don't want to "grind" doesn't belong in a D&D world which has ALWAYS been about "grinding" up levels.Actually, there's a very real difference between "grinding" and "leveling".
Grinding is doing something tedious over and over for the sole purpose of gaining levels.
Leveling is playing the game and gaining levels as a side-effect of that play.
Seconded, in many games grinding is reffering to repeating the same quest over and over again, or repeatedly killing 10,000 boars (or some other enemy that is not actually a challenge or fun to you, but is the only efficiant thing to kill for the time. DDO for me when I played it I wouldn't consider it's actions grinding at all. For me I enjoyed the instances, I enjoyed teaming up etc... I actually hit a point where there were actually more instances I wanted to do in a level, then I could do without leveling up, so I wound up intentionally not getting XP and gaining more XP ahead then a character can hold just to move foward.
Bottom line grinding in my view is when the only thing you cara about is that XP percentage bar going up. You honestly would never even consider doing the task if that XP bar weren't moving.
The best leveling is when it is something you enjoy anyway, even if there weren't a bar moving, you would still do the task for fun.
Bottom line while one man's fun is another man's chore, I think more games need to have more options and allow you to focus on leveling the way you enjoy which overall IMO PFO is doing by making it based on real time and allowing characters to focus on the part they enjoy, I'm sure a few other games do this fairly well, but very few in the MMO world.
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Ever consider a lot of people might work manual labor factory/construction jobs and welcome the opportunity to come home and do something constructive?
No.
P.S. I do not work in an office job. I have, however, done both types of work mentioned. Still no, not in a VIRTUAL GAME.
wrote:
No point in questing if I can't level from the cool stuff I do, killing giant dragons included.
You could just do it because you enjoy it...(and maybe you like hanging out with the people you do it with).
The good thing about this type of MMO is illustrated in exactly the sentence you hated: "some solo players won't leave town."...this means IF you want to leave town and go "adventuring" (aka, "normal rpg stuff"), then go. No one is stopping you or discouraging you. In fact, while you are out, as a crafter/merchant I constantly need rare mats...here is my latest grocery list, I will pay you for any you might run across...
I don't want to hang out with people in a game unless I am RolePlaying with them or actively doing a quest. I will hang out with them in real life and actually PLAY Pathfinder. I wouldn't 'do it just because I enjoy it' and neither would anyone else; People are used to rewards in games, it's in line with our basic natures, and unless you get to see your character grow, it's going to take a lot of the fun from that. People want to feel like their individual actions are making them strong, not that everyone is just growing at the same level. It really kind of takes the point out of the game. If THAT is the pull for Pathfinder Online, enjoy the month long life of this game. I think the creators of this game want to entertain their own ideas of trying to produce what is making facebook and app games so popular.
I'm glad the game dedicates to everyone. Do me a favor - for everybody who wants to enjoy Pathfinder as a high-adventure, exp.-gaining, treasure hunting exploration game... can you put the levels and the exp and the fun back in the game for US, and leave the other system in play for people who just like to sit and trade? The way you say it, ("adventuring", "normal rpg stuff"), almost makes the concept sound deviant to the norm of the game. So far, this MMO confirms that. Perhaps you guys should go read the back of the Players Handbook one more time.
My whole thing - the world is stuffed with capitalism and working normal jobs - you enjoy fantasy and game to get a good story and NOT have to deal with that. People who want to build, should, but I guarantee 90% of people will not want to beyond a side mission to design their own house and lands.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@TwiceGreat Well, I agree with you...when this game was first announced I was a huge advocate for sticking with the PF rules...at least as closely as possible. Unfortunately, I was in a minority (as if this was a democratic decision anyways).
On the other hand, this is very much like PF in how the world will work. When you level up and throw skill points into a skill, you do not do it because you used that skill x number of times, you level and assume out of game your character read a manual or something (or trained in his non-adventuring time). This will be a similar effect, only not (illogically) staggered into 20 discrete jumps.
But, I am very excited (or at least curious) about EVE-like mechanics in a fantasy world. It is at least something different than what has been done is similar genre games.
@Nihimon, I totally agree with your distinction.
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@ TwiceGreat Any real leadership class(or psychology) will tell you about the three kinds of motivation for people, those you want power/control, those you want to achieve, and those you want to socialize.
Some people like me(or perhaps you) are achievers you get enjoyment from actually earning something, but some get enjoyment from interacting with others and some get enjoyment from being in charge and exerting control over others.
each of these types can get expressed in different ways.
@Nihimon definitly agree with your distinction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Presuming only 10% of the populace will be into the crafting/building aspect of whatever end product seems to reveal a bit of personal bias, and somewhat fundamentally misses a couple points. The existing market for games includes all number of "creation" games of the Sim variety as well as various civilisation games (a similar "creation" model). Clearly there is a market space and an interest in such things. No reason to say a game shouldn't have a feature set simply because a personal bias leans away from it.
Additionally, the second point is that any such aspects of the game will likely not be mutually exclusive to the rest of the game play. Making that assumption ignores an underlying basis for the ideas presented in the blogs as well as some of the posts. Players providing content means players driving the underlying economies of the game. If one does not wish to contribute on the production end, well, one can apply oneself to any of a wide variety of other aspects. If one wishes to do both, I suspect the option will be available.
Seconded, in many games grinding is reffering to repeating the same quest over and over again,...
I know what you and Nihimon mean but I you don't understand me.
I meant that my FEARS are when people are talking about "grinding" is that they basically want to be top level right away with all the bell and whistles. Concentrating on the fun all the time and wanting to hang the developer if the game isn't "fun" every second of the way...
I mean...try to make a game yourself and maybe you'll see what I mean...(?). Even if its not 10.000 boars...you can't come up with 10.000 different races...so it will have to be 100 boars at least...capiche?
...and now some might feel killing thoose 100 boars is "grinding"...which is what I meant.
Its like when watching a movie...just because you had one second during the movie where you didn't enjoy yourself doesn't mean you can hang the producer or not pay the ticket...can you dig it?
BESIDES the fact that D&D always has been and always will be to a big part about progression. So to make you feel you are really progressing the game has to make you feel quite small from the start. Otherwise the satisfying feeling when you get better wont be there right.
BESIDES #2 is that grinding and leveling, even as per Nihimons defintion, are really hard to to distinguish between at times. You really can't draw a line and say all on that side is grinding and everything on the other side is leveling...can you...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Setting aside that traditional leveling won't really be applicable to the game being described in the blogs, I can personally attest that not all D&D is about starting small and becoming epic. At the start of each campaign I try to start at level 1, I have a number of players that roll their eyes at the inherent limitations of that concept. We've done it that way for years, and also started games at a higher level; when it suites the adventure in mind, there's nothing wrong with starting a campaign where the players have more options. We're all experienced gamers, with a wide variety of systems imparting a wide selection of power levels, and this hasn't ever taken away from our sense of satisfaction at how the game has played. Our satisfaction has always been derived from the crazy use of the abilities available, rather than in the selection/acquisition of those abilities. Perhaps its best to think of PFO as joining a game already in play, and derive one's sense of satisfaction from the story one write in the mechanics they provide.
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Goblin Squad Member
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BESIDES the fact that D&D always has been and always will be to a big part about progression. So to make you feel you are really progressing the game has to make you feel quite small from the start. Otherwise the satisfying feeling when you get better wont be there right.BESIDES #2 is that grinding and leveling, even as per Nihimons defintion, are really hard to to distinguish between at times. You really can't draw a line and say all on that side is grinding and everything on the other side is leveling...can you...
Well I think the main point is, in most games only 1 particular thing counts as leveling. Meaning 80-90% of what you do is going to be that particular thing. You can spend your time doing what you like, but if you don't like the 1 task you have to do to level, your character won't progress. It isn't so much about enjoying every minute of the game, quite a few games I've played involve say, 4 hours of repetative killing of weaker enemies that pose no challange or risk to you, then you get a 30 minute team instance (the part I like), then you need to put in another 4 hours of killing weak enemies to unlock the next 30 minute instance. WoW, perfect world, runes of magic, Dream of mirror online off the top of my head were all games that fit that style.
From what I hear WoW recently figured out that adding XP to PVP was good for the game for that reason, many people enjoy PVP and disliked the grind to progress, so they allowed characters to level in both PVP and PVE if they wanted. Even P&P also notes the value of allowing characters to gain XP from doing what they enjoy. In general an XP reward is given whether a character fights an army and kills the soldiers, or sneaks into the enemy camp and slits the leaders throat thus stopping the war in the first place. Or if he just plain meets the enemy leader and manages to talk him out of it.
What I like about the idea of PFO's real time system is pretty much the advantage of your character progression not being directly tied into what you are doing, at the same time the real time system limits it so that people can't skyrocket to the top by finding the most efficiant route and how to gain XP the fastest.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@superfly2000, I think I understand your fear, but I'm also convinced that the Skill Progression system PFO will use will guarantee that's not a problem.
You're right that "grinding" is mostly a state of mind, and not really a function of what's actually happening in the game. The skill progression system basically alleviates any possibility of grinding by ensuring that grinding doesn't work. You simply can't advance your character in any meaningful way by killing 10,000 boars, so people won't do that.
Basically, offline skill progression ensures that everyone who ever plays is always "leveling" according to my definition above.
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I just realized that what would really work for me(since my opposition had been lvling when I'm not playing) is to have real time lvling but only while logged in(i don't expect them to do this) this way my character doesn't jump way ahead of where I the player am(more for casual players, hard core players probably wouldn't notice without stopwatches).
Thoughts?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@DarkLightHitomi, the main problem with "real time lvling but only while logged in" is that people will do silly things to try to stay "logged in" while they're not actually at their computer.
If I were doing this from scratch, I would probably do a hybrid approach of real-time and some fairly trivial experience requirements. However, there is a very real possibility that the Merit Badges actually are the same thing as my "fairly trivial experience requirements".
I am extremely happy with GW's choice of progression. The only thing I would encourage them to seriously consider is allowing us to direct our characters to perform other useful tasks while we're logged out, such as replenishing a supply of scrolls, or working at the local smithy, or practicing our bow skills to gain a Well-Practiced bonus.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am happy too about training based progression.
In level/exp-gathering-based MMOs it always felt like a race to max level where the game really "starts".
A big part of this is that most MMO players nowadays are Archievers because there is not that much exploration and killing left in todays MMOs and Socialisers have countless other media to do this.