Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Ok, I tried searching for this, and didn't come up with an answer. Someone asked it on the discussions about upgrading named armor, but no one responded to his question.
(And you know how annoying it is to search for barding? All I get is bard threads!)
Anyway, is this possible? For example a Rhino Hide barding for a large non-humanoid? Its easy enough to figure out, the difference between hide armor and large hide for a non-humanoid is x4 so +45 gp, but I just wanted to see if this was pfs legal. Thanks.
Rhino Hide is a specific set of magic armor, so you would not be able to alter it into something else, like barding, as that would require the use of crafting feats and the item creation rules, neither of which are allowed in PFS play. Plus, rhinoceros hide is not a legal material to make even normal armor from.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Ok, so by your interpretation, you couldn't have Rhino Hide for a halfling either. The stats are obviously for a medium suit of armor, so you'd have to use the item creation feats in order to make a small suit, which is banned in PFS.
As for rhinoceros hide not a legal material, please show where it lists what kind of hide/leather armors are made from. Thanks.
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Magical armor, even named armor, can be purchased for Small-sized characters, so you could in fact have Rhino Hide armor for a halfling. Making it into barding is a different thing.
As for what kind of wide/leather barding is made of, there's a difference between "barding made from the hide of a rhino, with no difference from leather barding mechanically" and "Rhino Hide"(TM) named magical armor, which grants the abilities in the named armor listing.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Ok, forget calling it barding. Same section in the core book details armor for big/small/non-humanoid creatures and says absolutely nothing about "barding". Armor is armor. Same process goes into making magical +1 leather for a medium humanoid as it does for +1 leather for a large quadruped.
Yeah, its called magic. I was pointing out to EA up there that there is nothing stopping someone from having normal armor made from rhino hide, since he said you couldn't.
The only difference between small +1 hide armor and large quadruped +1 hide armor is 45gp and about 37 lbs.
So if you can buy small Rhino Hide (even though the stats are for medium), why not large Rhino Hide? Same table (6-8 CRB) tells the differences. I know the rules say I can't make it +3 Rhino Hide and I'm don't care to either, but where does it say animal companions/mounts can't have Rhino Hide armor? IE show me the rules.
I believe the FAQ even supports me.
Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions.
I could get +2 hide armor for my animal companion. By FAQ I should be able to pay the 1000gp more to make it Rhino Hide. If not, please show me how I'm wrong.
The named armor, Rhino Hide, also has a special property that cannot be reproduced using the standard upgrading system that is allowed in PFS:
This +2 hide armor is made from rhinoceros hide. In addition to granting a +2 enhancement bonus to AC, it has a –1 armor check penalty and deals an additional 2d6 points of damage on any successful charge attack made by the wearer, including a mounted charge.
Like Scott said, if you want normal old hide armor for you or your horse and it happens to be made from the hide of a rhino, you could do that. You can even enchant it. But by calling it Rhino Hide and capitalizing the name, you are going to confuse people who will think you took the specific, named armor and illegally modified it.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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The named armor, Rhino Hide, also has a special property that cannot be reproduced using the standard upgrading system that is allowed in PFS:
Like Scott said, if you want normal old hide armor for you or your horse and it happens to be made from the hide of a rhino, you could do that. You can even enchant it. But by calling it Rhino Hide and capitalizing the name, you are going to confuse people who will think you took the specific, named armor and illegally modified it.
This +2 hide armor is made from rhinoceros hide. In addition to granting a +2 enhancement bonus to AC, it has a –1 armor check penalty and deals an additional 2d6 points of damage on any successful charge attack made by the wearer, including a mounted charge.
Read my quote from my previous post. The FAQ says you can upgrade armor to a named armor.
Only if you can also build that named armor from scratch. You cannot make Rhino Hide from scratch, therefore you cannot upgrade to it either.
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Only if you can also build that named armor from scratch. You cannot make Rhino Hide from scratch, therefore you cannot upgrade to it either.
That is definitely NOT what the FAQ entry says.
Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?
Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
So, you can work a set of chainmail into Celestial Armor, as long as the chainmail hasn't been enhanced past +3, or had any other enhancements added to it.
Celestial Armor
Aura faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th
Slot armor; Price 22,400 gp; Weight 20 lbs.
Description
This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that
it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its
presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor
check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%.
It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on
command (as the spell) once per day.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fly, creator must be
good; Cost 11,350 gp
Masterwork Chainmail: 300 gp (AC +6, Dex +2, ACP -4, 20' move, ASF 30%)
Upgrade to +1 enhancement: +1,000 gp (1,300 gp) (AC +7, Dex +2, ACP -4, 20' move, ASF 30%)Upgrade to +2 enhancement: +3,000 gp (4,300 gp) (AC +8, Dex +2, ACP -4, 20' move, ASF 30%)
Upgrade to +3 enhancement: +5,000 gp (9,300 gp) (AC +9, Dex +2, ACP -4, 20' move, ASF 30%)
Upgrade to Celestial: +13,100 gp (22,400 gp) (AC +9, Dex +8, ACP -2, 30' move, ASF 15%)
Then that rule needs to be amended, because that final step from +3 to Celestial would require item creation rules since what makes it Celestial is not on the list of available armor special abilities in the Core Book.
But even if that is allowed for items that can be used/equipped by a PC, converting the OP's Rhino Hide into barding would still be illegal because there is no comparable item in any of the legal material.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Then that rule needs to be amended, because that final step from +3 to Celestial would require item creation rules since what makes it Celestial is not on the list of available armor special abilities in the Core Book.
But even if that is allowed for items that can be used/equipped by a PC, converting the OP's Rhino Hide into barding would still be illegal because there is no comparable item in any of the legal material.
I've hunted for this answer, and nowhere does it say you can't have named armor for large creatures.
Making a suit of chainmail from +1 to +2 would also require the item creation rules, but that's been allowed for a long time in PFS. They've ok'd the ability to make named armor from +x armor as long as it is the correct type (leather, hide, chainmail) and material and the +x isn't greater than the named armor's +. So unless someone can bring a rule that bans it I'll be allowing it if it comes up in my games, since the rules I've seen seem to allow for it.
(I only mentioned "barding" as that's its common name. In the armor section it never even mentions "barding". The same table that is used to show how to calculate small armor stats shows how to make other size armor and non-humanoid armor. Barding is only mentioned in the goods and services section, and references back to the armor section.)