I have a couple questions about Issilar's stat block.
Why does his Imunity Fire say 60 points? Shouldn't it be 72 (6x12)?
Also, why does he have four 3rd and six 2nd level spells. Shouldn't it be 3 and 5? I'm sure I am missing something, but I can't find it.
My question about Issilar has nothing to do with game mechanics:
What is he doing?
He found some charau-ka minions, and I understand keeping them, but why is he in Tazion? It seems that he's trying to get the pillars working, but what for? He already knows the way to Saventh-Yhi (given that he walked from there to Tazion), so what does he want?
He doesn't want to go back to Saventh-Yhi, given that he fled to avoid confrontation with the rakshasa. Surely he doesn't think that a few charau-ka would help him in that conflict. Maybe he wants to find other purecast serpentfolk? Maybe he thinks that the device does something other than what it does? What's his motivation?
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Surely he doesn't think that a few charau-ka would help him in that conflict.
Actually, it looks like he does think that. From RtR pg 55: "Issilar serves as a covert mentor to the charou-ka, basking in their adoration while he tries to formulate a plan that will allow him to return home at the head of a charou-ka slave army."
So it *does* sound like he's trying to win over the monkey-men to lead them back and use them against the rakshasa.As for what he's doing with the pillars, it appears he's trying to decypher them and figure out WHAT they do. I don't think he's aware they're a roadmap back to right where he came from. He just knows they're Azlanti artifacts. Shrug.
it should be pointed out that with the wards around seventh-yhi, the only way you can get there with the pillars of light (unless i interpreted it wrong) so issilar is trying to activate them so he can find the way back (unless i misinterpreted it).
it has been over a year since i ran it so memory a little fuzzy.
Actually, it looks like he does think that. From RtR pg 55: "Issilar serves as a covert mentor to the charou-ka, basking in their adoration while he tries to formulate a plan that will allow him to return home at the head of a charou-ka slave army."
So it *does* sound like he's trying to win over the monkey-men to lead them back and use them against the rakshasa.
Nice catch! Okay, I guess that's his plan after all.
I figure Issilar probably knows about Khalid-Shah, even though Akarundo doesn't. I'm not sure how that will help him (since he doesn't want the serpentfolk to be subordinate to anyone) but I'm going to keep it in mind. Maybe he plans to offer the charau-ka to Khalid-Shah after Akarundo is defeated, in exchange for a temporary alliance (and at least the loan of some muck mephits, even if Khalid-Shah stays out of things). If this happens, I expect betrayal (possibly even from both sides) as soon as Akarundo's gone.
I think there's at least a chance my PCs will ally with Issilar in exchange for guidance to Saventh-Yhi, so I want to make sure I think this stuff through before jumping into negotiations.
I like your theory that he's just curious about what the Azlanti contraption does. Maybe it's a way that he's idling away his days to keep his hands busy while he schemes revenge.
it should be pointed out that with the wards around seventh-yhi, the only way you can get there with the pillars of light (unless i interpreted it wrong) so issilar is trying to activate them so he can find the way back (unless i misinterpreted it).
it has been over a year since i ran it so memory a little fuzzy.
Some passages seem to indicate that this is the case, but there's enough evidence to the contrary (in the form of lots and lots of people who get to Saventh-Yhi without the pillars) that I'm going to discount that. Thanks for the idea, though!
the people that stumble onto seventh-yhi tho are entirely by accident tho. i checked my original notes and i did run it that way, seemed to work without a bunch of questions from the pcs
Never came up for my players. They were too pumped that they had knocked over book 2! I think the why is that he need a safe place to regroup and figure his next move. And the Charau-ka is a decent way to secure yourself and start to build a force to muscle back in on Savinth-Yhi.
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the people that stumble onto seventh-yhi tho are entirely by accident tho. i checked my original notes and i did run it that way, seemed to work without a bunch of questions from the pcs
Yeah the issue with Saventh-Yhi is that it's tucked back in a valley among "steep jungle-covered mountains and cliffs" and covered by a mirage arcana.
The Pillars of Light just reveal WHERE the city is. Once you know where it is, you can just walk right in. Others (that didn't have the Pillars) could have easily walked right passed it (with the hidden entrance and mirage arcana.)So once someone KNOWS where it is (like Issilar having come from there), they can just walk back. Otherwise how are the camp supply caravans supposed to get back?
That was my read on it anyway. But if your players were cool with however you did it, all good. :)
And tbug, cool plans for a potential alliance with Issilar against the rakshasa! Just remember that a double cross is almost inevitable considering the deep ingrained HATRED of humanity the serpentfolk feel. I mean, this is the race that drove them from being an ancient, potentially world-conquering empire to sleeping underground. But I could totally see Issilar smart enough to use the PCs to take out Akarundo THEN quench his wrath against them. That makes totally sense to me.
Very nice!
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Of course, if you're using Yarzoth/Ieana from SfSS as the BBEG to more firmly link the campaign, you can make some changes to Issilar here as well.
In my game, I established (and gave VERY vague hints in the Eleder Colonial Archives for the PCs to tip them off early) that the serpentfolk had a prophesy that a Chosen One would return to restore the head of the Father of Snakes.
In preperation for this, every few generations the degenerate serpentfolk produced a pureblood that was sent to Tazion to serve as the Watcher. He was charged with protecting the Pillars and to send the Chosen One to Saventh-Yhi when they returned. (I wasn't happy with the idea of Issilar being an exile. That just never sat right with me)
So in my scenario, Issilar knows how to operate the Pillars and has given one of the gems to his charou-ki allies/worshippers for safekeeping (he also hid another one in the Temple of Snakes so he only has two. Wanted to make sure the PCs fully explored Tazion.) When Yarzoth arrives, Issilar was going to escort her to Saventh-Yhi but she tells him of the PCs hot on her tail (heh. pun intended), thus the only reason the Watcher is still in Tazion... to destroy the PCs.
Issilar records his joyous meeting with the Chosen One in his journal (for the PCs to find after his defeat and to keep them on the trail. Also had to add where the Chosen One told Issilar how something called "The Coil" had found her body and raised her... the PCs originally killed Ieana in my game but left her body behind.)
So in Saventh-Yhi, Yarzoth finds that since Issilar has left, the serpentfolk turned to worshipping the newly arrived rakshasa. She returns the degenerates to the worship of Ydersius and they turn on Akarundo driving him back into exile in his "pleasure den" where he sulks now.
Yarzoth has been receiving visions of the subteranean city Ilmurea and assumes it's below Saventh-Yhi (something the degenerates know nothing about) so she travels to the Artisan district (assuming the humans there were left to guard it since it was the human Azlanti that drove them from the surface), finds the portal and uses it to return to Ilmurea.
It's actually her return and the celebration that follows that gives the opening for Juniver to escape (destroying the portal on her way back through).
I've added a couple chambers to the rear of the First Vault where Sozothala dwells, an undead exile from Ilmurea below. Several destroyed undead were added to indicate where Yarzoth had to carve her way through the crazed undead necromancer's forces to reach the portal and Ilmurea. This was actually what woke Sozothala up so he was ready to give chase to Juniver when she comes through (and leads to her capture and the Night of Hissing Death event)
So when the PCs arrive in Saventh-Yhi, they find the degenerates they capture ranting about the "Return of the Chosen One destined to bring about the Golden Age of the Serpent!" and can continue following Yarzoth's trail (and help to link the adventures together a little more and keep the serpentfolk -the main badguys- more prominent in the early adventures).
NOTE: the VAST majority of the above ideas come from others posters on these boards (I think TacticsLion in particular...) NO slight is intended against them for taking from their ideas. I just can't remember who you all are... but I do thank you profusely! :)
Just remember that a double cross is almost inevitable considering the deep ingrained HATRED of humanity the serpentfolk feel. I mean, this is the race that drove them from being an ancient, potentially world-conquering empire to sleeping underground. But I could totally see Issilar smart enough to use the PCs to take out Akarundo THEN quench his wrath against them. That makes totally sense to me.
Very nice!
Thanks! My PCs are all purecast serpentfolk, so I think they could totally suck Issilar into an alliance and then sucker punch him after they get established in Saventh-Yhi.
Also, fantastic ideas about Issilar and Yarzoth! Sadly they won't work for my campaign, but they sound enormously fun!
my players were all pirates and all they cared about was loot, not why some snake guy was trying to activate a map:).
my guess (and just a guess) was tim hitchcock may have been under the impression that the wards over saventh-yhi prevented issilars return without the pillars, and that ward either was forgotten or dropped without tim knowing.
honestly we thought racing to ruin was almost as fun as souls for smuggler's shiv.
our party liked to talk tho and i played up the faction recruitment.
i let them choose to take the prescribed route or make their own way- they made their own way.
i kept most of the encounters (switched shadow demon with something) and switched the guide scenario with a slaver's from crown's end posing as guides scenario (they took coastal boat up to crown's end then overland.
it was a bit more effort but worth it and kept tim's vision for the adventure intact (it is hard to make an overland adventure without "rail-roading" a little bit).
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Thanks! My PCs are all purecast serpentfolk, so I think they could totally suck Issilar into an alliance and then sucker punch him after they get established in Saventh-Yhi.
Also, fantastic ideas about Issilar and Yarzoth! Sadly they won't work for my campaign, but they sound enormously fun!
Ah! Missed the part where all your players were serpentfolk. Yeah... that would put quite a different spin on things! lol.
Very interesting idea though. Out of curiosity...
... are they outcasts from the Serpent Empire? Or from another serpentfolk city looking to wage war on Ilmurea? Just curious how you're planning to push the conflict in Book 5. I'm guessing they're all anti-Ydersius since they'll be trying to stop his rebirth in book 6? They see him as an enslaver of the serpentfolk instead of as a savior?
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honestly we thought racing to ruin was almost as fun as souls for smuggler's shiv.
our party liked to talk tho and i played up the faction recruitment.
i let them choose to take the prescribed route or make their own way- they made their own way.
i kept most of the encounters (switched shadow demon with something) and switched the guide scenario with a slaver's from crown's end posing as guides scenario (they took coastal boat up to crown's end then overland.
it was a bit more effort but worth it and kept tim's vision for the adventure intact (it is hard to make an overland adventure without "rail-roading" a little bit).
That's awesome. I really wish I had let my PCs choose their own route a little more like you did. If I do RtR again, I'm definitely going to do what you did: the PCs plot the trip. I'll just move the encounters to appropriate areas on the journey.
As it was, my players were very cooperative with the railroad (being experienced players, they accepted sometimes you just have to follow the big glowing fishhook in the sky to continue with the adventure. lol.)
They knew they weren't going to be able to fully explore and escavate a lost city by themselves, so they played along with the "choose your faction" part nicely.
They also knew that as level 3 characters they weren't going to be big players in the expedition. They were perfectly fine with the faction leaders determining their route and the PCs would trailblaze it for them, making slight changes and alterations as required (like through the salt mines).
They were quite pleased and never once considered RtR a railroad. They really felt if they wanted, they could have set out straight into the Bandu Hills, but the plotted route was the fastest way. Shrug.
Ah! Missed the part where all your players were serpentfolk. Yeah... that would put quite a different spin on things! lol.
Very interesting idea though. Out of curiosity...
My PCs indeed see Ydersius as an enslaver of the serpentfolk. Before Vyr-Azul came along, their lives were really good. They basically lived in the lap of luxury, while humans fed them grapes and ran their businesses for them. If Ydersius returns then they suddenly go from being the 1% to being blue collar, and all the little people who follow all their Suggestions are suddenly enemies. They just want the status quo preserved.
As far as I can tell, there isn't really a "Serpent Empire" so much as a very occasional purecast serpentfolk born to a bunch of savages. I'm going with the conservative population estimates, so the total number of purecast serpentfolk on the planet numbers in the three digits. (AP vol 37, p. 66).
I don't plan to give the conflict in chapter five any particular push; I figure that once they learn about Vyr-Azul's progress they'll go ahead on their own and do what's necessary to stop him.
I'm adding purecast serpentfolk to various points in the AP, though. There are so few that there just aren't a lot of chances for conflicts with old acquaintances, and that seems like a lost opportunity given my game's situation.
reading this forum really makes me want to run serpent's skull again, especially with bestiary 2 and 3 out now. also we didn't make it past vaults, everyone went insane from bad saves huffing midnight spores then died when they ran afoul of the plant vault and no one would let the cleric heal them (not that the insane cleric was going to anyway). alas running Carrion Crown right now, which is loads o' fun. maybe this summer tho:)
My question about Issilar has nothing to do with game mechanics:
What is he doing?
He found some charau-ka minions, and I understand keeping them, but why is he in Tazion? It seems that he's trying to get the pillars working, but what for? He already knows the way to Saventh-Yhi (given that he walked from there to Tazion), so what does he want?
He doesn't want to go back to Saventh-Yhi, given that he fled to avoid confrontation with the rakshasa. Surely he doesn't think that a few charau-ka would help him in that conflict. Maybe he wants to find other purecast serpentfolk? Maybe he thinks that the device does something other than what it does? What's his motivation?
I think this is one of the continuity problems that might come from having different authors tackle the individual parts for the AP. Having only read SfSS and RtR all the way through (and just skimmed the other parts) I actually did not understand the second part of your concern. In RtR it simply states he was exiled and wants to lead a an army of Charu-Ka back to Saventh-Yi. I figured at first glance that whomever exiled him had used "Modify Memory" to erase knowledge of the route to Saventh-Yi and that's why he needed to activate the pillars. I assumed he was exiled rather than killed, because the serpentfolk wouldn't want to kill one of their own kind.
After reading CoSS, it seems that rather than being exiled, he fled once the Rakshasha set up shop. This makes me lean more towards the theme of he doesn't know what the pillars do and he already knows how to get back to Saventh-Yi and the only thing stopping him is fear of the Rakshasa and the need to gather an army to oppose him.