Something I've noticed over the last year or two is that no internet discussion, on any topic, on any set of boards, can possibly go more than six or eight posts without someone inevitably yelling "Strawman!" Now, by now we all know what the term is supposed to indicate -- demolishing a false position to make your own argument look superior.
But most often it's used by people who either (a) have totally failed to grasp the true applicability of the rebuttal being made, and who therefore assume that it is a strawman instead, and/or (b) have absolutely no logical argument of their own, so they attempt to call into question a much stronger one by hurling this accusation.
It's used so often, and overwhelmingly incorrectly, that when I see it now, I realize I needn't bother actually looking for any real straw men. Instead, I can pretty much assume that the person hurling this term has a much weaker argument than the person they're accusing.
And it's become so common on some of the blogs I frequent that it's like a Godwin or something.
If you think someone is actually making a straw man argument, point out in what way the argument they're demolishing is not representative of the other side's true thesis. Simply yelling "strawman!" (or, worse, using the annoyingly snotty "Strawman much?") just leads the reader to believe that you, yourself, have no meaningful input other than mindlessly repeating catch phrases whose definition you are only vaguely, if at all, aware of.
I believe the same could probably be made for other fallacies as well. Strawman has just propagated throughout the internet more widely.
Oh, and I am sure I have been guilty of this.
Your toxic stew of ad hominem attacks impresses no one.
But "strawman" makes flame posts burn that much more hotly.
Your toxic stew of ad hominem attacks impresses no one.
Point. I think I have seen that just as often, if not more than strawman.
I believe the same could probably be made for other fallacies as well. Strawman has just propagated throughout the internet more widely.
Oh, and I am sure I have been guilty of this.
Way to go with the strawman argument, poodle.
But "strawman" makes flame posts burn that much more hotly.
And most excellent fuel it is, jolly good.
Point. I think I have seen that just as often, if not more than strawman.
Very good point (even coming from a secret pony lover, at the risk of being hoisted on my own petard). And it's just as often applied incorrectly.
A: "Therefore, your generalizarion does not hold up, when we look at the current example."
B: "Stawman!"
A: "No; you stated a general rule; I pointed out an exception."
B: "So now it's not only strawmanning, you're throwing ad hominem attacks!"
C: "Er, no. He was attacking your argument, not you."
B (crying): "I can't tell the difference! Why won't you all just understand that I'm always right?"
I was going to mention the claim of certain 'belief bashing'…but, yeah.
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Kirth, I think it's absolutely awful of you to condemn all meaningful debate on messageboards. Some of us like to have thoughtful arguments on all manner of topics, and don't need you to tell us that we shouldn't be having these discussions on the internet. You're obviously coming to this position because you lack the intellectual wherewithal to comprehend our thoughtful debates.
Kirth, I think it's absolutely awful of you to condemn all meaningful debate on messageboards. Some of us like to have thoughtful arguments on all manner of topics, and don't need you to tell us that we shouldn't be having these discussions on the internet. You're obviously coming to this position because you lack the intellectual wherewithal to comprehend our thoughtful debates.
** spoiler omitted **
Good show!
I do say, I like the cut of his jib.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Kirth, I think it's absolutely awful of you to condemn all meaningful debate on messageboards. Some of us like to have thoughtful arguments on all manner of topics, and don't need you to tell us that we shouldn't be having these discussions on the internet. You're obviously coming to this position because you lack the intellectual wherewithal to comprehend our thoughtful debates.
** spoiler omitted **
Kirth, I think it's absolutely awful of you to condemn all meaningful debate on messageboards.
STFU n00b!!!1!shift+1
Kirth, I think it's absolutely awful of you to condemn all meaningful debate on messageboards.STFU n00b!!!1!shift+1Flagged.
Gah! Such an obvious n00b move.
Flagged.
Nice one! Well played indeed, sir. Because now I can claim to be persecuted...
Flagged.Nice one! Well played indeed, sir. Because now I can claim to be persecuted...
Oh you dastardly clever devil.
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Flagged.Nice one! Well played indeed, sir. Because now I can claim to be persecuted...
A Minority of One?
As a young man in his Uncle's House, he spent many leisure hours acquiring that knowledge of his country; its ancient glories and the centuries of cruel opression; the many rebellions crushed with ruthless savagery; the dread period of penal days, and finally the period when his countrymen of every creed were massacred with unexampled ferocity by levied troops and mercenaries.
He then formed a resolution which was to remain with him all his life: To endeavour to free his land from the yolk of its opressor.
I hate egg on my face too.Edit: That's even funnier coming from a bird, right? >:D
Post flagged for giving the bird to the reader.
Also, strawman was bound to come around. A year or two ago it was ad hominem.
I think it comes from the fact that some people can not tell the difference between an analogy and a straw-man. Either that or they do not care what the difference is as it suits them better to attack the person and not their argument.
I think it comes from the fact that some people can not tell the difference between an analogy and a straw-man. Either that or they do not care what the difference is as it suits them better to attack the person and not their argument.
And you base this on…? Do you have any evidence to back up your wildly speculative 'opinion' or are we to take what you say on faith? People who use a strawman are either ignorant or manipulative?
It's sad that some fracking nazi wants to view any dissent with one's position as attempting to silence them.
I'm probably guilty as well (in fact, rather more than 'probably'). I try to explain how the person is strawmanning. In general, I will say something to the effect of 'You're strawmanning. I never said that.'
I was using it before it was cool, though. :P
I was using it before it was cool, though. :P
So you're the trendsetter then, old chap? Superb, excellent work my boy.
I was using it before it was cool, though. :PSo you're the trendsetter then, old chap? Superb, excellent work my boy.
That's not what I said! Quit strawmanning! Strawman! STRAWMAN!
*Rings Strawman Alert Bell*
What's the difference between a strawman and a kobold?
What's the difference between a strawman and a kobold?
Spelling.
What's the difference between a strawman and a kobold?
No one calls me a bad mother if I set the strawman on fire.
What's the difference between a strawman and a kobold?Strawmen make good fires upon which to cook your Baby Kobold on?
hmmmm KFC Kobold Fried CHildren...finger licken good.
That's the fifth time I've heard that joke...smurf you!
Today?That's the fifth time I've heard that joke...smurf you!What's the difference between a strawman and a smurf?Strawmen make good fires upon which to cook your Baby Kobold on?
hmmmm KFC Smurf Fried Children...finger licken good.
CJ, you have been smurf'd.
I was using it before it was cool, though. :PSo you're the trendsetter then, old chap? Superb, excellent work my boy.That's not what I said! Quit strawmanning! Strawman! STRAWMAN!
*Rings Strawman Alert Bell*
Our work here is going splendidly! Tally-ho!
smurf
Right-o
Right-o
Why can't you people stop bickering and join the smurfs? It's a lot more smurfy.
Right-oWhy can't you people stop bickering and join the smu^fs? It's a lot more smu^fy.
Jolly good incitation there young fellow. Now we just need an appropriate counterpoint. Any daring gentlemen in the crowd care to fence wits with this sharp young lad?
Come now, we've a prime firestarter here. Let's not let it it go to waste, wot?
