Updating other Base classes (Archivist specifically)?

[Jim Kundert]

Realizing that the "problem" of bringing other base classes up to Pathfinder standards is addressed in the 3.5-to-Pathfinder PDF, I'm still a bit stuck for ideas to update the Archivist (from Heroes of Horror), which is being used in our current game. Any suggestions?

For those unfamiliar with the Archivist (as its a 3.25 class, to some extent), the class uses the Cleric spell list the way a Wizard uses the arcane list, spellbook and all, and has a Bard-like ability to dredge odd facts about the more inhuman monsters out of his studies to provide bonuses to his companions as they fight such things. Add creeping bonuses to Knowledge skills to taste.

Should I be salting the class with bits lifted from the Loremaster, perhaps?

[Hammith]

I'd actually think a good thing to add would be a Knowledge skill version of the Bard's Versatile Performance.

Ideas for Associated skills: Arcana (Spellcraft & UMD), Dungeoneering (Disable Device & Appraise), Engineering (One Craft Skill & Appraise), Geography (Survival & ???), History (Linguistics & ???), Nature (Survival & Heal(via herbs)), Nobility (Diplomacy & Sense Motive), Planes (Bluff & Diplomacy), Religion (Heal & Spellcraft).

[carborundum]

I made an arcane version a while back and sprinkled it liberally with Loremaster abilities. The player in question was very happy!

[Freesword]

Remove the following skills from the class skill list:
Concentration, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Search

Add the following skills to the class skill list:
Appraise, Linguistics

Change Spells per day table to match Wizard.

1st level add Orisons

Orisons: Archivists can prepare a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Archivist under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.

Lore Mastery - Replace "Decipher Script" with "Linguistics".

That should be all the changes needed. They will already be on par with wizards and clerics power wise without any additions.

[Zurai]

Archivist was waaaaaaaaay up there on the "most powerful classes in the game" chart, generally right behind wizards and artificers, so it doesn't need more power. It's got access to literally every single divine spell ever invented (assuming you can find a scroll of it), so it's got versatility pretty well covered. It's got a decent amount of skill points and a good skill list, so that's OK, although you will need to update the skills that got combined (decipher script, etc). It's already got the appropriate hit points, so there's no need to update that. It's got a class ability almost every level, so that's good. The archivist's knowledge class feature ranges from nice to have to insanely powerful (stun with no save on an easy skill check as a move action? yes please).

I don't see that it really needs any updating other than to update the skill list to Pathfinder standard.

[Set]

Zurai wrote:

Archivist was waaaaaaaaay up there on the "most powerful classes in the game" chart, generally right behind wizards and artificers, so it doesn't need more power. It's got access to literally every single divine spell ever invented (assuming you can find a scroll of it),

Which, in Pathfinder, means it can use Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Adept and Pathfinder-converted Domain spells, in addition to Cleric spells.

That's all kinds of hot, but not a chap on the rearend of the Archivist who has access to Cleric/Druid/Paladin/Ranger spells from Spell Compendium, the *dozens* of other Domains and various divine PrCs (such as the Blackguard, Death Delver, Holy Liberator, etc.). As with many, many CharOp nightmares, it goes from 'neat' to 'OMG!' mainly with the presence of non-Core material.

And, like the 'Batman' Wizard, it's 'uberness' is entirely dependent on ignoring WBL rules and allowing them to get spells for free.

Some extra skill utility, as mentioned upthread, wouldn't hurt.

[Warforged Gardener]

Set wrote:

Zurai wrote:

Archivist was waaaaaaaaay up there on the "most powerful classes in the game" chart, generally right behind wizards and artificers, so it doesn't need more power. It's got access to literally every single divine spell ever invented (assuming you can find a scroll of it),

Which, in Pathfinder, means it can use Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Adept and Pathfinder-converted Domain spells, in addition to Cleric spells.

That's all kinds of hot, but not a chap on the rearend of the Archivist who has access to Cleric/Druid/Paladin/Ranger spells from Spell Compendium, the *dozens* of other Domains and various divine PrCs (such as the Blackguard, Death Delver, Holy Liberator, etc.). As with many, many CharOp nightmares, it goes from 'neat' to 'OMG!' mainly with the presence of non-Core material.

And, like the 'Batman' Wizard, it's 'uberness' is entirely dependent on ignoring WBL rules and allowing them to get spells for free.

Some extra skill utility, as mentioned upthread, wouldn't hurt.

I planned on adding an Archivist NPC to a Pathfinder group...it doesn't require much in the way of conversion, especially with its Knowledge features.

[Owen Weldon]

I just played an archivist in our LoF campaign and I don't think it needs any upgrading for Pathfinder. You get some goodies almost every level and as long as your DM lets have access to scrolls of druid, ranger and paladin spells, you will be very powerful already.

[Kevin Andrew Murphy]

I played an archivist and the "I can't tell you about those monsters because I didn't have feats to burn on the expansion feats" business got so old that the DM finally just gave me the Draconic Archivist and Archivist of Nature feats for free.

This may be less of an issue in Pathfinder where you get extra feats to burn, but if you want to give them a small power bump to make up for not allowing access to every spell ever printed eva, letting their lore apply to all monsters, not just some of them, certainly is a good idea.

[Zurai]

Note that you don't have to rely on your DM giving you scrolls as loot, at least for the more common classes. You can make magic items cooperatively (one supplies the feat, one supplies the spells). That includes scrolls. Just buy a day or two's time from whoever you want the spell from and go at it. As long as you aren't opposed to their ideals, most churches wouldn't have much of a problem I wouldn't think if you made the right donations, and adepts are even easier (and a good way to get fireball). At the very least you should be able to get the common spells like the cures, neutralize poison, remove disease, and so on in this manner so that you can spend your level-up spells on the more exotic cleric choices.

[Jim Kundert]

Thanks for the input, all!

I suspect my desire to up-gun the archivist comes from being in a pretty low magic campaign at the moment. His class-specific stuff is quite useful once I build up the feats to expand the reach, but the spell list is so far pure Cleric, and there are better classes at using the Cleric spell list.