OK, In reading the several Eberron adventures published so far in DUNGEON, I have gained an interest in the setting, and will probably eventually get the campaign book...damn the folks in marketing ;-)
Any way, I thought that since my players wanted to play a city adventure that I'd run Steel Shadows. The one problem I had with the adventure as published is that by just looking at the pictures of the possible suspects I knew who the killer was even before I began to read the adventure. What's more, the PCs will meet the murderer in the first real encounter, and knowing my group, only bad dice rolls will keep the killer from being exposed right there. Then there will be some frustration as Copper tries to flee so the rest of the adventure can take place.
So, instead, I have decided to remove Copper from the Red Hammer, and introduce him as the War Forged that Molric is beating. Then Moric will chase off copper before talking to the PCs who will see his link of gold chain which he will tell the PCs he took off of the War Forged he was beating. When asked about the bracelet: "They ain' t got no need for gold!".
Now the PCs will want to question Copper, and he'll be gone as is called for in the adventure. Moric can give them Coppers background.
As for provoking Shadowback in the Red Hammer, any other War Forged (like the one armed one I'll add in the corner) can play the part of his foil, and that way the PCs can still raise his fury by bothering a unfortunate.
Everyone knows that the most likely suspect is never the real killer, and evil lurks where you least expect it. By introducing Copper the way the adventure calls for, I might as well say "Copper is the killer". By having him being beaten and then aided in the party, by taking Molric's attention off of him and then allowing him to escape, I believe the adventure will be more interesting?
Thoughts?
ASEO out
Yeah... sometimes you have players that are too smart for their own characters. Eventhough they can roleplay what their characters don't know, it is satisfying as a DM to see everyone gasp when they find out who the bad guy is.
My first group that went through the Shackled City adventure path figured that Lord Orbius Vhalantru was the bad guy behind the throne... and they just couldn't wait for their characters to know so they could go up against him.
They started calling him Lord Orbiously the Bad Guy.
WARNING - SPOILERS for Brookhollow and Tears for Twilight Hollow
I completely agree that there is nothing quite like really surprising your party with a bad guy. A few years ago, my group of players was going through Hall of the Fire Giant King, and they found a prison wherein was shackled a beautiful female rogue that had been caught by the fire giants. The party ignored D&D Rule #2 (don't trust any beautiful female NPCs) and not only freed her, but left her on sole guard duty while they slept to recuperate from a particulary harsh battle. She stole all of the treasure they had accumulated from the Hill and Frost Giant lairs, which was conveniently stowed in a portable hole.
From that day, the players don't trust NPCs. The first adventure in the current campaign was in Brookhollow (a Dungeon adventure from a few years back), where the town priest was exposed as an evil schemer that was confronted in the evil catacombs beneath the church. They are now 9th level and are going through Tears for Twilight Hollow, where a town is threatened by evil and the high priestess asks for the characters' help. After meeting with her (and detecting no evil or bluffing), the group went to the inn to strategize. The first question raised was "So I guess we need some kind of concrete proof before we kill her?" The second was "I wonder where the entrance to the catacombs is?" My only recompense is infusing some toughness in lieu of mystery. A cheap DM trick, yes, but a worthy one.
Actually, Copper WAS the warforged getting beaten up in the first draft -- he was just in the Red Hammer as well. My guess is that the editors felt that it was too much of a coincidence to have him in both places and chose to keep him in the Hammer, and I can see the logic to this. If your players are going to spot him right off, I'd certainly move him to the foundry.
-Keith Baker
Creative Director
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Hi Keith! Good to see ya on the boards! Personally, I was kind of lukewarm to the concept of warforged at first, but with this adventure, you pretty much turned my opinion around 100%. You really gave them a lot of personality and weight in "Steel Shadows." Great stuff!
You're correct that we decided to use a "stand-in" for Copper in the scene where the warforged was being beaten, partially for the reasons you mention (too much a coincidence) and partially because if the PCs decide to leave for the foundry immediately after their first visit to the Hammer... I wasn't sure how Copper could get there before them to get his beating.
That said... having the PCs see Copper get beaten in the foundry is certainly an excellent way to forshadow events. If you'd rather have the PCs meet him there, excellent! Just be careful overusing him. You want the PCs to be aware of Copper's existance before he's revealed to be the killer, but you don't want him showing up in every encounter.
What I'm sort of trying to say is murder mysteries are hard adventrues to design.
What I'm sort of trying to say is murder mysteries are hard adventures to design.
Agreed! And yes, timing there could obviously be very awkward. I think it does make sense to keep Copper in just one location -- if it turns out that the Foundry works better for your group, by all means switch it. Heck, feel free to add additional scenes that occur in the tunnels, if you want to stretch it out. The Red Hammer provides you with the personalities and descriptions of a few of the denizens of the area, but you don't have to present them all at once if you don't want to!
Needless to say, thanks for all the great work you and the rest of the Paizo staff are doing, James. I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed Steel Shadows!
(And let me just say that I love this little warforged icon!)
I can't wait to run this...once I get the Eberron setting...I think that by introducing Copper as sceenery versus as a character the party will not necessarily latch on to him as the killer from moment one. So many D&D mystery adventures follow the format that you meet all the suspects in the first sceene then have to figure out who the criminal is in the following sceenes. The Players always latch onto the least likley suspect, and 9 times out of 10 they are correct. By having the criminal be a no name extra the party has to do more choose from the NPCs they are forced to meet.
ASEO out
Great idea regarding Copper's placement...I was thinking the exact same thing, "As soon as I show them the picture they're gonna know who it is". I guessed it right away...I mean c'mon, it's always the innocent looking guy. :-)
Anyway, consider this idea swiped!
Thanks,
Kordak