Dredan—Realm of Metal & Myth Campaign Setting (PFRPG+T20) PDF

Dredan – Realm of Metal and Myth PDF
Questions and observations:
1. I cannot print this??? Makes it hard for an old timer like me who likes to read in bed at night!
2. Page 26 – BLUs: Multi-tasking penalty? Thought this was eliminated in Pathfinder (this seems to be an old 3.x throwback).
3. Page 26 – BLUs: Minus HP and you die (Pathfinder uses the -10 or constitution before death standard, why the change here?).
4. Page 27 – Felonian (not sure of the name – too close to Felons/criminals), I rather like the aspect that they must return to home planet within days equal to their player levels or they die, seems rather restrictive though, might make that weeks rather than days. These are your Ascended good guys in this campaign, think Vorlons from Babylon 5.
5. Ah! Page 28 – Felonians can take a crystal to allow them to stay longer off planet, Ok, this means that the PC needs this dependent material to really play off their home world, meaning there is leverage against them and leaves room for scenario hooks.
6. Void creation: too many pages devoted to this in the player race section. A lot of this seems to be a fluff.
7. Early parts of the book seem by focusing very much on the Void, to the extent that the book might be encouraging evil play or characters (Pages 30-55).
8. Ok, so far this campaign world seems to be a G vs E campaign setting (Everything Positive Energy vs the Negative Energy Void).
9. Syntenetics = Cybernetics (just another name). Another way for a character to grow is to receive Syntenetic enhancements (Cybernetics) whether from the positive realm or the negative realm. Or the new player race is robots, though these are called BLUs (or Basic Life Units).
10. Lots of the newly identified spells are simple replacements of existing good and evil with Positive and Negative Energy.
11. So Crystals are the basis for all core energy in this domain, whether its technology based or magic based.
12. Overall a good mix of information that would allow someone who collects both the Travellor T20 system books and the new Pathfinder RPG to build on a new level of adventures.
13. This whole book is an interesting melding of Travellor and Pathfinder. A skilled GM should find a gold mine here to expand either a low tech level Pathfinder campaign and bring those characters out to the stars, or an existing High Tech Travellor campaign and introduce it to Magic.

You can print it; I've done it.

You can print it; I've done it.

maybe from the source you got it from, but my print button and file/print are both greyed out!!

I checked the security setting of the document that I received and it is most definately marked as "disabled printing"

So I report what I see!

Urizen wrote:

You can print it; I've done it.

maybe from the source you got it from, but my print button and file/print are both greyed out!!

I checked the security setting of the document that I received and it is most definately marked as "disabled printing"

So I report what I see!

Printing is blocked on mine as well. Not sure if that has to do with obtaining the document at RPGNow/Drivethru RPG versus Paizo.

I thought the setting was excellent, with lots of interesting ideas that could easily lead to adventure. If you are looking for a setting for a cross-over fantasy / science fiction campaign, Dredan fits the bill very well. It is also a "focused" setting, with a built in "good vs evil" conflict, which I liked - this contrasts with the more general setting that Traveller uses.

From a Pathfinder point of view, however, it was a disappointment. There are references to multi-classing penalties, level adjustments, and rogues using d6s for hit dice. I also think the advanced humans, the Mandorians (?) are a bit weak compared to the standard humans in the Pathfinder rule book.

I was also surprised to see references to Githyanki, Githzerai and Illithids. I hope the authors had permission to use them.

I was also surprised to see references to Githyanki, Githzerai and Illithids. I hope the authors had permission to use them.

Wow. I hadn't seen that yet.

I can't print it either. #ugh

These are my initial thoughts, as I have not yet finished reading through the document.

Right now I am struggling with a lack of bookmarks on the .pdf. In my opinion, the best third party publishers utilize bookmarks. Even just guides to the various chapters would help immensely.

While I think the setting is interesting I am also struggling with some grammatical issues, mostly in the realm of run sentences. More than that, the text is somewhat lacking in the style department. There are many repetitive statements and some of the descriptive sentences feel choppy. While they are certainly complete and correct, these sentences feel a but truncated in their execution.

I will take both of these things into account in my review. When dealing with the grammar, I am usually pretty lenient overall. I make mistakes all the time, so I can forgive a lot. Style kind of bugs me a bit and I generally place it in the same tier of importance as art. The bookmarks are a standard with .pdf publishing, in my mind, and I will likely mention it. It won't lower the rating though.

Ultimately, I like what is trying to be achieved here. The concept is good. Now I just need to finish the book and see what kind of full implementation it receives.

I also see some references to planes I thought were off limits. Bytopia, for instance. While certain planes like Hell or the Abyss cannot be copywritten, I was under the impression that some of those names were not mythological in origin and thus owned by WotC.

I would be happy to be wrong in this regard. In addition, I am uncertain if just naming them counts as a breach of IP. So please, if I am wrong, please feel free to let me know. Because that, along with the gith mentions, worries me a bit.

Printing is blocked on mine as well. Not sure if that has to do with obtaining the document at RPGNow/Drivethru RPG versus Paizo.

Hm. Not sure why everyone else cannot. I bought mine here.

alleynbard wrote:

Printing is blocked on mine as well. Not sure if that has to do with obtaining the document at RPGNow/Drivethru RPG versus Paizo.

Hm. Not sure why everyone else cannot. I bought mine here.

That's probably it. Our free coupons had to be used through RPGNow/Drivethru and the publisher chose to exercise the option to prevent printing. I don't believe Paizo offers a similar option. RPGNow has all sorts of odd security features you can choose to implement. While I am aware that printing can be shut off in the actual Adobe Acrobat program, it seems to hold that this was a security measure chosen by the publisher since the Paizo version of the same publication doesn't have this same restriction.

I am not sure why the company would restrict printing, as that pretty much makes the document useless to me. I imagine I am not alone in that assumption. While in the "check out" screen, I noticed that document was listed as having the printing disabled. Since I was getting it free it wasn't an issue, but I would never buy it from that source with that knowledge in mind.

I thought the setting was excellent, with lots of interesting ideas that could easily lead to adventure. If you are looking for a setting for a cross-over fantasy / science fiction campaign, Dredan fits the bill very well. It is also a "focused" setting, with a built in "good vs evil" conflict, which I liked - this contrasts with the more general setting that Traveller uses.

From a Pathfinder point of view, however, it was a disappointment. There are references to multi-classing penalties, level adjustments, and rogues using d6s for hit dice. I also think the advanced humans, the Mandorians (?) are a bit weak compared to the standard humans in the Pathfinder rule book.

I was also surprised to see references to Githyanki, Githzerai and Illithids. I hope the authors had permission to use them.

In the original version of our Pathfinder Compatible PDF, there was a few system (compatibility) errors that are being corrected and in about a weeks time these places throughout the setting will be corrected. A few skills referenced the 3.5 Concentration skill. That was a very nice catch on the Rogue d6 comment. This was originally produced as a 3.5 setting and converted using Pathfinder rules and with the size of the book I totally missed that reference to Rogue hit dice. Thanks, I will add that to the list of corrections to go with the latest version of the PDF.

As far as the setting not having enough of Pathfinder flavor, this is not a core rulebook, it is a setting, and the setting itself is a Sci-Fi/Fantasy mixture, so standard Pathfinder will have a few hooks but not a whole lot. However, that being said, I did not add any core classes to this setting, just PrC's.

To address the comment about the Mandorian's being weaker then the standard human class. Difference is, the Pathfinder base race human coming from a fantasy setting will have more feats, skills to start, but what they will not have is the technology level and the equipment that goes with that high of technology. For example, TL15 armor is as light as standard leather, has very little armor check penalty, very high max dex bonus, plus the AC is equivalent to plate. That with the standard high TL gear, add IR goggles, scanners, computers, weapons and they are NOT underpowered, they have the advantage. So it does balance out.

Very great reviews, all of them, good attention to detail, and I will be addressing any corrections that need to be made. I wish I had a staff of you guys to pour over my material prior to publishing, very good work, this is what I was hoping to get when we did this promotion. Thanks for following through.

Urizen wrote:

alleynbard wrote:

Printing is blocked on mine as well. Not sure if that has to do with obtaining the document at RPGNow/Drivethru RPG versus Paizo.

Hm. Not sure why everyone else cannot. I bought mine here.

That's probably it. Our free coupons had to be used through RPGNow/Drivethru and the publisher chose to exercise the option to prevent printing. I don't believe Paizo offers a similar option. RPGNow has all sorts of odd security features you can choose to implement. While I am aware that printing can be shut off in the actual Adobe Acrobat program, it seems to hold that this was a security measure chosen by the publisher since the Paizo version of the same publication doesn't have this same restriction.

I am not sure why the company would restrict printing, as that pretty much makes the document useless to me. I imagine I am not alone in that assumption. While in the "check out" screen, I noticed that document was listed as having the printing disabled. Since I was getting it free it wasn't an issue, but I would never buy it from that source with that knowledge in mind.

We discussed this print option originally, since this is the first set of documents we published we wanted to see if that is a deal breaker. However, that is the purpose of this promotion, to actually get feedback and what we can do better. I discussed this with my partner and we both agreed after reading the review and the posts and emails we received we can enable printing on the PDF's. If anyone that received a free copy wants another copy print enabled, let me know and that can be arranged. We don't want to hamper your ability to give a good review. Also, going forward any PDF of ours that is purchased you will be able to print.

1. I cannot print this??? Makes it hard for an old timer like me who likes to read in bed at night!

We have enabled the print function on future downloads of the PDF, thanks for the feedback, if you want a printable version email me.

2. Page 26 – BLUs: Multi-tasking penalty? Thought this was eliminated in Pathfinder (this seems to be an old 3.x throwback).

That is one of the changes going in the revised PDF in about a week. I had already caught that but was too late before people had downloaded it.

3. Page 26 – BLUs: Minus HP and you die (Pathfinder uses the -10 or constitution before death standard, why the change here?).

Not sure where you found this? Under BLU it specifically says "BLU die and are destroyed. When a BLU reaches -10 hit points their body breaks

Hope that clarifies! Thanks again for the review.

Ok, fixed and printed.
Thanks.

For the record, Paizo doesn't offer publishers the option of disabling printing on PDFs that go through our watermarker.

For the record, Paizo doesn't offer publishers the option of disabling printing on PDFs that go through our watermarker.

Correct which is why Urizen was able to print and the others were not able to. But this has been fixed. Thanks for your input Vic.

Smart pre-emptive move on my part by purchasing it here. :D

Excellent. Thank you, Dredan.

Dredan,

Thank you!

Robyn

Vic Wertz wrote:

For the record, Paizo doesn't offer publishers the option of disabling printing on PDFs that go through our watermarker.

Correct which is why Urizen was able to print and the others were not able to. But this has been fixed. Thanks for your input Vic.

Ok, going to hit the points of this review to discuss and answer questions about the design or why things are the way they are in Dredan to provide clarification where it needs to be, but I would like to thank Turin in his honest review of our product.

Reviewer: Turin the Mad

Thursday, 12:04 PM
Promising a Pathfinder-compatible campaign setting, Dredan posits an epic struggle between Good (Positive Energy) and Bad (Negative Energy) on at least a Galactic scale, complete with starships and planet-hopping galore. The VOID are the bad guys, undead infused with an entropic agenda that the positive-energy-infused good guys are equally bent on stomping out.

However, what would have had me scrambling back for a refund is the undeclared requirement that you have to also have something called "T20". I can only presume that this refers to a d20-compatible edition of Traveller.

You are correct, T20 is the Travellers Handbook that is OGL based on the d20 system. This is a campaign setting and not a core rulebook which uses two very different genre of play, fantasy and Sci-FI, so the book does reference two different handbooks for essential rules. Maybe we could be more clear in the Product description for the Campaign setting the books needed to effectively run the setting. I will address this issue.

The Dreden-specific races include androids (BLUs - Basic Life Units) that are able to load up on cybernetics swag, shapeshifting positive energy critters, a variant human race that is not a real improvement over the Core Rules human and the BBEG race (VOID).

This is correct, however if you take the standard high technology equipment of the variant humans, they will have more abilities and armor that is far superior to what PFRPG characters can attain. It balances out.

The races are not PFPRG-compatible in execution, with restricted favored class selections - a Beta holdover perhaps? - and level adjustments. I give Dredan a "good thing" nod in attempting to make the VOID race playable. The flavor text accompanying them is fairly good - and makes it clear that they are an unpleasant prospect to actually play at the table.

They are completely compatible, if you read the race selections, some races spawn from high technology levels, therefore if you choose the race (BLU) which spawns from Technology level 15, this specific planet in Dredan has no exposure to magic and at character creation you can not choose fantasy/arcane based classes because you are a technology race. So therefore the favored class must be restricted. Only classes that deal with very little magic are un-restricted. No where in Pathfinder is level adjustment discussed, it isn't reworked, it isn't discussed. The BLU have a level adjustment +1 which is definately a must because they have a repairing mechanism that basically gives them regeneration/1 and they get 3 +1 stat increases with no stat decrease, plus many other benefits. I almost upped the level adjustment even higher.

Without the heavy use of magic or XPH psionics, the VOID are doomed to being overt bad guys. And in order to become one, the required prestige class hamstrings the casting level - and, by extension manifesting level although this is not explicitly addressed despite Dredan's premise of parity between magical, psionic and technological as a 'Rule of Three'. At 11th level (at best), a VOID PC has a caster level of 6th. I am unsure if this is intentional or not.

The caster level restriction was definately intentional. Why, the prestige class a character that may have spawned from low technology (IE fantasy barbarian) access to high technology level equipment. Increasing CL for every level in PrC would be extremely unbalanced because not only would the character have access to TL 12 equipment, Syntentics, computers, high powered weapons, scanners, IR goggles, they would have full access to their arcane abilities? The lesser CL of the PrC class is the time it takes to learn the new technology but yet still keep some of the arcane side. Technically your being converted into an undead android but yet able to keep a few of your existing abilities but being enhanced with many other things the VOID offer, IE undead template, construct traits, Strength +8, speed increase 10', IR vision, access to TL 12 equipment and maybe vehicles and or weapons.

The Dredan-specific items section more often than not seems out of balance on produced magic item costs vs. cost-to-manufacture. Holy Water made 'at cost' by the Good Guys is one thing - but a near-artifact-priced item is hard to accept "at cost".

Dredan magic based items are definately not cheap, but in the beginning of the chapter there is a section of how you make Dredan items as compared to PFRPG, the only difference is the crystal covers the cost of the item, in other words, if the item costs 100k market, 50k of that price is the price of the crystal. So if a character finds this crystal or crystals then the item can still be made. It will take a while, but a staff that fires fireball once a round and never runs out...is worth every gp.

The 'mana engine' vehicular power plants are not clear in the benefit provided besides the energy that the regular reactor would produce. For an addition to Traveller, these things had best be staggeringly impressive - and did not deliver. These power plants should have been able to power everything the normal reactor does plus the jump drive since normal Traveller starships consume substantial quantities of liquid hydrogen to power interstellar travel plus a meson cannon strapped to the roof for the volume and cost multipliers involved.

I think you may have the reactor? power plant and fuel confused. In Traveller you have fuel, Tons and tons of liquid hydrogen that is pumped into the power plants which is converted in to energy that runs the systems. In Dredan if you have a Jusay powered ship, you do not have to make room for the tons and tons of space needed for Liquid Hydrogen, Jusay crystals replace the fuel, so all that space reserved for storing fuel can be recovered and used in armor, cargo, systems, weapons and many other things. The difference, as explained in the charts of the Jusay power plant section is the Jusay power plants are a little bit bigger than the standard Traveller power plants because they are used to hold and convert the crystals power to ship power. Depending on the size of the ship, you will save thousands of tons of space because you don't have to store the standard fuel, even though your power plants are bigger. Plus you will NEVER have to re-fuel again, once you have crystals you can go forever. That is the biggest OMG benefit.

The artwork within the book is of mixed quality, some showing much greater proficiency and skill than others. The layout / placement of the artwork is well done, clearly denoting or accompanying a relevant section of the text.

The Dredan project spanned 15-17 years time of artwork from the same artist, some artwork was done back in the 90's and other was created specifically in the last few years. That is what your seeing.

Mechanically the single biggest quibble is with the "drain rate" of temporary hit points gained from positive energy. Consistently referenced as "temporary hit points drain from a living creature of 1d20 minutes" is ... confusing. How many temporary hit points drain how fast? Do they all go away in 20 minutes or less? Why does the setting have such randomness associated with positive energy as compared to the rules for this in existing 3.5 Open Licensed material?

I would really like a Paizo clarification on what to do with Temporary hitpoints. It is not stated anywhere. The only place I can find how soon do temporary hit points drain was on the spell vampiric touch I think it was and it stated hit points gained drain in 1 hour. Dredan is infused with postive and negative energy all over the place. So much stuff can grant temporary hitpoints and they do stack. Since it isn't discussed in the core rulebook I am not going to follow that one spell, I used OGL d20 rules and 3.5 in how the temporary hit points from the planar handbook positive plane. It specifically states temporary hitpoints gained drain at a rate of 1d20 minutes. I agree and implemented that rule in Dredan. When you have an 8th level spell that can grant 16d6 of temporary hitpoints, they need to drain faster then 1 hour. Keep in mind it is an 8th level spell, and it is powerful so it isn't game balance breaking. So when you get hit with the spell, roll a d20, take that number and in that many minutes those Temp hitpoints go bye bye. Keep track of how many you had and how long they are good for. When I GM, I go for random more then for by the book the rule says as the rule does. I prefer to let the DM play that how he wants.

The walkers are strange, depicted as what I can only call the inbred love child of an AT-ST, a Destroid or Mecha and the Mechanoids. Combined with the (realistic) expense and that it requires a prestige class to use the things keeps them planted firmly on that strange spot.

They are vehicles, and traveller vehicles to a T, secondly all the PrC class does is give you a free vehicle. Any TL15 character can pilot a two-legged vehicle if you take the feat, simple, per the rules, what the PrC classes do is give your character, or I should say LOAN your character a vehicle that is worth over 3 million gp's. In Traveller you have to take out a Loan and pay it back forever to own a vehicle, like taking a loan out on a house, the PrC classes give you one for free because your the member of a military unit which provides you the vehicle for free. The statement is wrong, you don't need a PrC class to use the vehicle, it is just a huge benefit the prestige class doesn't make you pay for it. Anyone can pilot a vehicle if they have the feat per the rules.

The depicted fighter craft bears a suspicious resemblance to the Gallente Shuttle from EVE Online.

Eve Online rocks...however the artist and I went over many looks before we found what we wanted for each ship.

There are some written IP references (beholders are the first I saw, in the descriptive text of a staff) as well that are begging for some trouble from the legal eagles.

We have permission from WOTC for some things, and other things are being corrected, we had to use a lawyer for the Open/Closed content and worked with WOTC and Far Future Enterprises. Good catch on the beholder though!

The "world setting" section is not bad, comprising an area of detail that, in Traveller, would be represented by a single sector. Not a bad starting point for a new campaign involving substantial space travel.

This really needed more polish to make it mechanically compatable with PFRPG.

There is two places I have found that are being corrected to ensure complete compatibility with PFRPG, I think most of the problem is that it isn't understood, this is not Golarion, this isn't one world with a few continents on it and its all fantasy. This is an entire galaxy if you will, that has worlds that are fantasy (Golarion) like planets, Sci-Fi planets, worlds, this is much bigger then a few continents. This is an entire galaxy for you to play whatever you want. If you like your wizard, then play coming from the Low TL worlds, but there is nothing to say that your wizard will, can, might fight, things like the VOID, run into the High attitude rich Mandorian, the strict thinking BLU or the flighty Felonians. You can do whatever you want and you can have your character FIND anything, black powder, modern, Sci-Fi, you name it there is a planet in Dredan that will support it. Your homebrew is no longer limited by the setting, only thing limiting what your character can do is your imagination. Do whatever, go anywhere, figure out technology, spelljammer, Traveller, Pathfinder, it all works in one setting.

Thanks again for the reviews and taking time in writing about our product. If you have any further questions let me know. We will be producing an updated version of our Pathfinder Compatible setting with a few catches provided by the excellent reviewers in this community. I will post when the updated version will be available. I will also have no problem providing a coupon to whoever bought the book with the new version for free when it is released.

Dredan (BW)
Author of Dredan
Metal & Myth LLC

I would really like a Paizo clarification on what to do with Temporary hitpoints. It is not stated anywhere. The only place I can find how soon do temporary hit points drain was on the spell vampiric touch I think it was and it stated hit points gained drain in 1 hour.

There's no single duration for temporary hit points—how long they last depends on how they were acquired, and should be stated in the description of whatever it is that's granting them. (If they're acquired by way of a spell, and the spell doesn't specifically say otherwise, they last for the duration of the spell.) So, while the temporary hit points from vampiric touch are lost in an hour, the temporary hit points gained with a sword of life stealing last 24 hours.

(Also, they don't "drain"; they are "lost." "Drain" has a different meaning.)

Dredan,

I think you have some promise with your setting. A few things I would suggest be considered are:

• The dual-system element is perfectly acceptable if it is 'on the back cover'. That is what I was trying to address - that the 'dual system' nature was not disclosed clearly. If a GM has both systems (and likes them), then I would say 'sweet, I can use blasters to kill dragons? SIGN ME UP!' You have the first decent cross-over I've seen in some years taking a crack at this potential.
• The artist, based on my own experiences with artists IRL, has probably refined his technique over the years. I like some of the elements of the artwork for Dredan. For the artistic elements to really shine I would suggest refining the older pieces into more recent work. It is fine to see in portfolio the artist's work evolve - for Dredan the artist has an excellent chance to refine the vision into a greater form. I hope that the artist takes my comments as constructive criticism.
• The weakness of vehicle depiction for a lot of people in a lot of game systems, including my referral to EVE Online, is that the vehicles do not really make sense other than from an aesthetic view. (EVE especially is notorious for 'eye candy' ships that would probably not hold up well from an engineering stand point.)
• The prestige class granting access to a walker is all fine and well, but I would consider using a structure and customization approach, similar to that provided by the Landlord feat in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. As a player the walkers are unappealing as a fixed asset. Let the walker grow as those with the prestige class does, similarly to the structure Pathfinder uses for animal companions and eidolons.
• The understanding of the higher-TL access warranting a 'variant human' race is commendable, but I think unnecessary. Education - in the case of Traveller d20 most likely represented by a feat or a feat tree combined with skill ranks [Knowledge (technology)?] depending on the prevalence of mixed-TL systems in the setting - is the key to the benefits of higher technology. In Traveller a time-honored facet of the setting is being able to "boot-strap" entire communities, cities, countries/nations and even worlds from primitive levels to functional levels of higher TL. It would be a shame to miss this, although I do caveat this with unfamiliarity with T20.
• Explaining that 'class availability' is based on the world's TL might prove a better method than using an entirely different race to reflect this.
• Mixing the skill systems is, as others have reviewed thus far, a really difficult element of the campaign setting. Is there a clear method outlined in T20 addressing this?
• As Vic Wertz has described to you, temporary hit points are rather set. The are acquired, depleted first and if unused (or not used to replenish lost hit points as they would be especially with positive energy) fade over the course of - in Dredan - 20 minutes. I would minimize the random elements of mechanical systems when possible. Especially one that is so central to the campaign setting as it is for Dredan. As you pointed out, GMs can alter this to suit their tastes.
• On the reactors/power plant/fuel issue: I am glad that you clarified this, as it was not something I could easily find in that section of the setting. The jump drive FTL system of Traveller has inherent limitations built into them. That the crystals permit one to (theoretically) jump as much as you want - i.e., consume no refined liquid hydrogen fuel - is good to hear. The volume of increase in the reactor/power plant I find to be an item of concern. Due to unfamiliarity with the T20 construction rules I would only compare that system's size of reactor + size of fuel tankage to that of the massively increased crystal-reactors.

I wish I had a staff of you guys to pour over my material prior to publishing. Very good work, this is what I was hoping to get when we did this promotion. Thanks for following through.

I empathize with you on this! Be sure to look your reviewers up on other material you work on.

Now to see if the other 20 or so reviews get done. :)

I have been debating how to approach some of this, deleting posts because I didn't want this to be awkward. It was really hard for to me write the review I did. And I felt a bit burned by the comment concerning the lack of understanding towards the setting. Everything I am saying comes out of a genuine concern to improve the product. I really like the concept. It is a rather cool idea.

Mixing the skill systems is, as others have reviewed thus far, a really difficult element of the campaign setting. Is there a clear method outlined in T20 addressing this?

But I have to say, the skill system was one of largest things that stuck out as a problem in my mind. Some of the skills seemed redundant (liason, leader, etertain), some, like gunnery, were very situational. I appreciate the need to add skills dealing with technology to the setting, but I am one of those who believe the fewer additions the better.

Knowledge, Craft, and Profession can incorporate a whole heck of a lot of material. Drive is a good addition for a high tech setting and so is computers. Heal doesn't really incorporate modern medicine so I would replace with medicine and give some guidelines on what you can do with that skill based on TL and the equipment you have. 6 ranks in medicine for TL 6 is very different than 6 ranks at TL 15. Same skill, different results. I think that kind of dichotomy is rather cool.

The understanding of the higher-TL access warranting a 'variant human' race is commendable, but I think unnecessary. Education - in the case of Traveller d20 most likely represented by a feat or a feat tree combined with skill ranks [Knowledge (technology)?] depending on the prevalence of mixed-TL systems in the setting - is the key to the benefits of higher technology.

The old Dragonstar setting used a feat to help designate tech familiarity. Characters from advanced societies got that feat for free. Characters from a more primitive society could take the feat later. Just a thought. Not sure if that would help create a more clear line between highly advanced and less advanced cultures.

I like the idea of the Mandorians. But I much prefer the idea of tying technological familiarity with culture as opposed to race. TL should be a choice made during character creation that is entirely independent of race.

Right now, I see the tech planets as being distinctly different than the "fairy tale" planets. Some of this divide is certainly derived from my perception, as there are examples where the two mix. I guess I would like to see more integration within the core setting material.

As you have said yourself, there is a wide spread of potential in your setting. Your TL ratings should reflect that. TL 15 seems to be about as high as it gets (genetic manipulation, FTL travel, etc.) and the system goes down from there. TL 6 could represent your bog standard fantasy setting or any setting with medieval technology. TL 7 could reflect magi-tech and steam tech. TL 8 could be the point where cultures discover a method to endure the rigors of space,either through tech or through magic (or both). Naturally, I just made those numbers up. The scale can be anything you like it to be.

I honestly see no great fault in determining class selection based on TL, but I am uncertain why that has to be the case. Ultimately, TL 15 wizards can be really cool and operate with completely different tools than TL 6 wizards.

Lower magic levels and higher magic levels are still possible in this scenario. In this situation it could even still be based on culture/planet (ie- Casius V is known for its low magic rating and Trogs rarely practice any kind of magical tradition. Those that do may never progress pass 4th level unless they leave Casius V for a more magic rich world and receive advanced training).

I guess what I am saying is this. If magical training is not a constant across the galaxy, then I would have preferred to see the following hierarchy of factors involved with character creation. First, TL of the culture they derive from. Second, the magic rating of the planet they come from. Since "magic rating" (just a random term) is a constant factor, like TL, the rules are then standardized based on something outside of just race. Third, a race is chosen, so long as it is an available race for the culture the player has chosen. Finally, class can be chosen based on the factors above. Thus, a few starter cultures could be detailed and each would provide a unique customization for beginning characters. Naturally, as the characters travel their resources and available tools could fluctuate.

I know this seems somewhat complex, but I am convinced it is a bit more simple that I just portrayed. :) I can be a bit verbose at times and that might have muddied my thoughts. It would provide you with some nice diversity and still preserve the cultural norms you seem to be looking for. Mandorian culture can not only include Mandorians but subject elves, dwarves, and halflings. Thus, all of these racial choices would utilize the magic rating and TL for Mandorian culture.

Ultimately, I know this is a ton of suggestions that might not really help you in the long run. Changing all of this so dramatically is likely more trouble than its worth. I am just giving you an idea of how I perceive the kind of setting you want to portray in Dredan. It might go far in securing the sense of diversity you want and provide some interesting and clear options at character creation. I guess it really isn't anything more than looking at the subject your originally presented from a different angle. I honestly am not sure why placing the burden of TL and magic training on culture appeals to me more. So take my thoughts with that in mind.

As one of the people who received a review copy, I want to state that I'm still working through it.

I do have a few notes, that, at the present, I'll refrain from posting as a review/rating, and instead, offer them here.

I'd also like to preemptively apologize for being blunt. I mean no negativity, and am presenting my recommendations, because I truly would like to see a better presentation.

First things first: Pages 2 and 3 contain the open content/product identity declarations. The font size can (and should) be significantly reduced in size, so that they take up maybe half a page, rather than nearly one and a half.

The obligatory OGL should also have it's font size reduced, and moved to the back of the book - use the Pathfinder Core Rulebook as an example of this - it takes up maybe a third of the page, and is right before the index. I don't know for positive if this can also be done with the PCL (I would imagine it can), but if it's required that you print it, and you can, I'd give it the same treatment - small, but readable, and in the back of the book.

Table of Contents: A Table of Contents this isn't. This is an index. A really, really, really long index. Again, using the Pathfinder Core Rulebook as an example, condense your Table of Contents to a single page, and look at condensing your index as well, and move it to the back of the book. Pathfinder has a single page Table of Contents, and a four-page index, for a nearly 600 page book.

I'll echo the need to clearly state the requirement of the Traveller20 _AND_ Pathfinder rules. I can imagine this causing some heartburn had I purchased this as it currently is advertised as a Pathfinder-compatible product, only to realize that it requires an entire seperate ruleset as well.

Copyright issues: The Great Wheel on page 20 (the page that illustrates the planar topology and is nearly a direct duplication of page 8 of Manual of the Planes). Githyanki. Githzerai. Illithids.

This is a big issue that you'll want to be VERY careful with. The OGL specifically prevents the use of such product identity, and no part of Manual of the Planes is considered open content.

Now, you say:

We have permission from WOTC for some things, and other things are being corrected, we had to use a lawyer for the Open/Closed content and worked with WOTC and Far Future Enterprises. Good catch on the beholder though!

I want to recommend that you be VERY careful, and VERY sure that anyone representing themselves as WotC hasn't misrepresented themselves, and led you astray. I can't claim any experience with licensing any of WotC's properties, but I simply can't believe that they would license these properties to a virtual unknown in the RPG community, especially for use in a campaign setting for a competing product. Further, I can't believe that a such a licensing agreement wouldn't require a notice in the copyright section noting that the properties belong to WotC, and are used under license.

Moving on.

A race of clones called "Mandorians" seems a wee bit too similar to a certain Fett. In my mind, it's best to steer clear of such similarities, and perhaps change the name of this race.

I'm not too keen on the word "Jusay", but maybe that's just me. It sounds like "juicy", and using juicy-crystals to make juicy-weapons and juicy-armor...it's kind of goofy.

Anyhow, that's where I'm at about now. I'll continue reading, and come back to this later.

EDIT: I wanted to point out, my copy (from DriveThruRPG) seems to have no issue with printing.

I've modified the product title and added a bit to the description to make it more clear that the T20 rules are required in addition to the Pathfinder RPG.

I've modified the product title and added a bit to the description to make it more clear that the T20 rules are required in addition to the Pathfinder RPG.

Thank you Vic, much appreciated, this is our company's first attempt at a full blown book/setting. We have a lot to iron out and which is one of the reasons why I gave away free copies to get the exposure and helpful comments from the community. We will be doing a second edition with all of the fixes stated.

That being said, I really appreciate the constructive feedback from the posters in this thread. I take all comments professionally and not personally and hope you do the same. Very good points, comments and suggestions. Dredan artist and myself are looking at putting in bookmarks on the PDF to assist in navigating the book. I am not 100% sure on how to do this but we will work at it until the product is 100%.

As Vic stated, Dredan relies heavily on temporary hit points and a better way to say it is to be lost and not drained. I have made not of that and I will update the text to read that. As always I appreciate the feedback and even the comments from Vic. I think the setting is solid and there are tweaks that need to be done.

About the T20 skills and the Pathfinder skills. All the references about the skills are not replacing each other, but the chart merely lists all the T20 high TL skills and their Pathfinder equivalent if they have one. IE there is no driving in Pathfinder but you need that skill in T20. But heal and T/medical is basically the same thing, just T/Medical uses equipment to assist. Same thing just one is technology based.

Once again thanks for the wonderful feedback.

As one of the people who received a review copy, I want to state that I'm still working through it.

Ditto. This is one large -- and detailed -- product.

I just wanted to clarify one thing about Dredan, Dredan is not a core rulebook, it is not a rulebook that is Pathfinder Modern, future or Traveller-Pathfinder. Dredan does not change the systems of gaming. Dredan utilizes the rules from the Traveller20 (Travellers Handbook) and the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. I have not changed either system to make something new. Dredan is nothing more then a setting that you can play either of these systems in. I provided the means to help a GM assist in dealing with a campaign that may have aspects of both systems in their campaign. If you have no knowledge of T20 system, about 50-60% of Dredan will not make sense to you. There are a few rule additions that are setting specific, IE Jusay crystals as power/fuel for spells and or equipment.

Mandorian race, is a race of humans that have developed and are entwined with technology. If your a Mandorian then you were grown in a labratory much like cloning. You will not have access to the fantasy side because your race has no clue about magic and the term magic is that which can't be proven by science. If you want to wield magic then you will not be a Mandorian from the planet Mandor, you will be a Pathfinder core race "human" from a planet that has a lower technology level. If you want to play a standard Pathfinder "human" race you can, you can even be a standard Pathfinder "human" and live on a technologically advanced planet with access to that technology. But you would need the Travellers Handbook and Pathfinder Core Rulebook to build your character because your going to want some of the tech feats for your character.

Urizen wrote:

You can print it; I've done it.

maybe from the source you got it from, but my print button and file/print are both greyed out!!

I checked the security setting of the document that I received and it is most definately marked as "disabled printing"

So I report what I see!

Have you tried CTRL + P?