Two-handed fire arm as a quarterstaff for a Staff Magus

It doesn't make sense why a character with a level in gunslinger and a level in "monk of the empty hand" can't use a two-handed firearm as his quarterstaff, since according to the APG a monk of the empty hand uses "a two-handed weapon as a quarterstaff." so the two-handed firearm should therefore be able to be used as a quarterstaff in melee combat. A staff magus gets the quarterstaff master feat as a bonus feat at first level. Why can't a character wield it with one hand utilizing a feat he will have with a weapon he already treats as a quarterstaff in melee combat. It isn't like I'm asking for him to be able to fire it with one hand with the quarterstaff master feat, I'm asking if he can hit someone with it, in melee, one-handed and still use his spell strike.

I'd sure like a legitimate reason why this can't be done. I understand that it is an improvised weapon, but a quarterstaff is a quarterstaff, improvised or not. If a character has special training to make any two-handed weapon a quarterstaff, then that character should be able to transfer that training over to other classes and utilize quarterstaff feats. its like saying i can't use rapid shot to throw a pile of rocks with my throw anything feat if i used I obtained the feats from two different classes bonus feats.

My guess is because its a gun and not a bludgeoning weapon.

Technically, you can use a two-handed firearm in melee as an improvised weapon (-4). I haven't read up on Monk of the Empty Hand, but if it's written exactly as you say, they should be able to use a two-handed firearm like a quarterstaff as well.

Whether or not you could take levels in Gunslinger, Monk, and Magus to use a gun as a quarterstaff you can swing around one-handed with spellstrike after firing it as a gun when you're still at range... I'm not enough of a rules authority/expert to try and figure that out without more caffeine first.

A fun compromise, if you want to convince a GM to let you do it is to point out that even though it wouldn't be "fired", the Misfire rule applies, technically, to a gun being used in melee:

If the natural result of your attack roll falls within a firearm's misfire value, that shot misses, even if you would have otherwise hit the target. When a firearm misfires, it gains the broken condition.

Chalk it up to the fragile nature of early firearms - personally I think it's an interesting idea for a character concept (not sure if I'd do the magus bit myself, but the gunslinger+monk...interesting!)

One important thing though - I'd rule that the gun would count as a "double weapon" for purposes of masterwork/magical enhancement, so you could make it a +1 gun, but that wouldn't help you hit someone in melee, so you'd need a +1 for the butt-end of the gun too.

The MADness! :P

I wouldn't even go that far Mike for allowing the enhancement of the 'gun-staff'. It'd be like the enchanted mithril waffle iron issue; would enchanting it as if it were a quarterstaff prevent the player from claiming it's an improvised weapon for his feats/abilities. I can't remember how that thread ended or was ruled (or even if there was a consensus), so I'd expect table variation on that one.

He also wouldn't be able to spellstrike and shoot at the same time, either; both shooting and casting the spell would be the standard action. Assuming you were to try spellcombat instead, spellcombat specifically calls out using a melee weapon and making melee weapon attacks, so that still can't happen. He could make a full attack (but not a flurry) of a ranged shot then gun-staffing as a melee attack, but that would provoke an attack of opportunity.

Interesting idea, although a bit clunky for my tastes.

It might be usable as an improvised weapon. Guns are fairly fragile and finicky compared to melee weapons though, so I'd add 1d2 to the weapons misfire chance each time its used in melee, until repaired.

Of course gunslingers can already hit people with guns with no misfire problems.

I'd sure like a legitimate reason why this can't be done. I understand that it is an improvised weapon, but a quarterstaff is a quarterstaff, improvised or not.

Except when it's not a quarterstaff:

A monk of the empty hand treats normal weapons as improvised weapons with the following equivalencies (substituting all of their statistics for the listed weapon): a light weapon functions as a light hammer, a one-handed weapon functions as a club, and a two-handed weapon functions as a quarterstaff.

He treats any two-handed weapon as an improvised weapon with the statistics of a quarterstaff. Nothing else is implied. The gun is not treated as a quarterstaff for anything other than its statistics.

Musket Axe and Musket Warhammer.

Note: The Musket Axe is a valid choice for the Bladebound Magus' Blackblade.

My guess to the OP would be because there is a deed that allows you to use a firearm as a bludgeon weapon ...

Otherwise what BBT said

Since you are trying to use a rationalization of why it can or cannot be done, rather than RAW, here goes:

Our current military trains with rifles to be used as improvised weapons. Not only with bayonettes, but as improvised clubs, especially the butt end. Having done this myself, I will tell you that a rifle (and I would assume even more so with a musket) is a poor substitute for a well-balanced quarterstaff. It would be at best, an improvised weapon, if used for something other than its primary purpose.

As mentioned by others, using a firearm as a melee weapon puts it at risk of being broken. No matter how well built it is, repeatedly using your weapon that you hope will shoot straight, as a pounding weapon, is going to eventually bend the barrel or break the stock. And since musket firing mechanisms are mostly on the outside of the gun, as opposed to today's weapons which are mostly internal, you would be putting that part of the weapon at risk as well.

"Ok, I shoot my musket at the BBEG. What do you mean quarterstaves don't shoot bullets?!? I'm a gunslinger gosh darn it! What do you mean I now treat my gun as an improvised weapon equivalent to a quarterstaff? I should have thought of that before I took a level of Monk of the Empty Hand?!?! ARGH!!!"