Now available! This 12 page PDF includes more than 30 new spells. Plus it includes the herolab data file and simple instructions on how to incorporate them to your hero lab program.
I like a fair number of these! A few concerns though:
HALICAN’S HYDRAULIC BURST is better than Hydraulic Torrent in almost every way. But they're the same level.
I'm a bit wary about ROSTOV’S POISON FANG. It's really early, and constitution damage is nasty.
Additionally, how does the save work? Is the save of the poison the save of the spell? That could get quite high! How does stacking poison effects work with this? The second hit has a +2 DC?
Perhaps it should discharge after one hit?
From what I recall, granting a standard action (roughly equivalent to an attack action) is a 15th level ability, from the Pathfinder Chronicler PrC. ROSTOV’S SNAKE STRIKE grants it at level 3. Since it uses up a limited resource, I think it should be available before level 15 (since PF Chroniclers can use it a ton), but still, one extra attack is huge at 3rd level, and in many ways is probably the best action a wizard could take.
I'd recommend it for a 4th level spell, personally. 3rd level for bard, possibly magus. Maybe even 2nd for bard, since they are the support masters.
HALICAN’S HYDRAULIC BURST is better than Hydraulic Torrent in almost every way. But they're the same level.
I'd call it different more than better. But I can see an argument there.
Would changing it to 4th level be good?I'm a bit wary about Rostov's poison fang. It's really early, and constitution damage is nasty.
Additionally, how does the save work? Is the save of the poison the save of the spell? That could get quite high! How does stacking poison effects work with this? The second hit has a +2 DC?
Perhaps it should discharge after one hit?
Hmmm... I'd add in there a note that this poison does not stack. Will that do? The spell itself is a Target personal spell. There are no saves for the caster. the poison's DC is the poison's DC. So you can't grant this to the monk. This spell is mostly for animal companions and familiars. The only class without one of these that can cast this spell is the alchemist. And it only works on natural weapons. unarmed cannot be used with this.
From what I recall, granting a standard action (roughly equivalent to an attack action) is a 15th level ability, from the Pathfinder Chronicler PrC. ROSTOV’S SNAKE STRIKE grants it at level 3. Since it uses up a limited resource, I think it should be available before level 15 (since PF Chroniclers can use it a ton), but still, one extra attack is huge at 3rd level, and in many ways is probably the best action a wizard could take.
I'd recommend it for a 4th level spell, personally. 3rd level for bard, possibly magus. Maybe even 2nd for bard, since they are the support masters.
I wouldn't call a standard action and an attack action similar. Sure a fighter can get off a single sword swing, but a caster can't cast any standard action spells, which is most of them. The fighter can't full attack or charge. The spell trades the caster's standard action for an allies attack action. You can't stabilize a dying party member.
Plus there are a number of differences: Inspire action is anywhere in the sound of the PC's voice. So he could be in a clock tower RSS requires a touch. Plus RSS is a spell while Inspire Action works off of Bardic Performance. Running out of Bardic Performance wasn't something I had much of a problem with after taking Extra Performance. I currently play a wizard and I constantly have trouble with running out of spells.
Well, it would affect more enemies, rather than enemies in a line (which is notoriously hard to pull off!)
Not stacking would help out a lot! My main concern for the spell was actually shapechanging. Cast that on yourself, and polymorph into a lion! 5 attacks at the end of a charge! If they all hit (and the poisons stacked, the DC to get rid of the poison would be 10 + 2 + casting modifier + 8!
I was perhaps stretching it when I said the actions were similar. My main concern is that it blows away many other "damage" spells at 2nd level, IIRC.
A fighter will be doing somewhere around 15-20 damage. Scorching Ray is better, yes but...
I didn't take into consideration that Haste gives an extra attack, unconditionally, at level 5. That does change things quite a bit.
Another issue is that it's decent at lower levels, when you're granting an extra attack. But it really shines at higher levels when you don't have anything better to do, and have a ton of leftover 2nd level spell slots.
This is a very subtle spell, hmm!
Upon reconsideration, 2nd level is a little too low for my tastes, but 3rd level gives haste, which is solidly better in every single way. So 3 is too high.
2 is close enough, so I do now think it's close to fine. Perhaps it should use up an attack of opportunity?
Reviewed here and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!
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Reviewed here and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!
you're views are fairly similar to mine. I agree some of the spells where to bland or ho hum to be called signature spells IMHO. But they was fine spells just not really what I would call signature spells. I read it yesterday but have not started on a review beyond making notes when I read it.
reviewed.
Thank you DM I appreciate it.
Both DM and EZG mentioned in their reviews that Rostov's snake's strike is overpowered for a 2nd level spell. But as Cheapy mentioned, it is decidedly less powerful than haste is at 3rd level.
Well, at game this past week, my group and I were discussing a mass version of that spell. We were debating what level back and forth when we all realized that this spell is still decidedly less powerful than haste. Sure everyone gets one additional attack action right away, but haste last for rounds/level. At 5th level that 5 times the the number of attacks than a mass version. At 20th level that's 20 times the number of attacks. That's a sizable difference.
Both DM and EZG mentioned in their reviews that Rostov's snake's strike is overpowered for a 2nd level spell. But as Cheapy mentioned, it is decidedly less powerful than haste is at 3rd level.
Well, at game this past week, my group and I were discussing a mass version of that spell. We were debating what level back and forth when we all realized that this spell is still decidedly less powerful than haste. Sure everyone gets one additional attack action right away, but haste last for rounds/level. At 5th level that 5 times the the number of attacks than a mass version. At 20th level that's 20 times the number of attacks. That's a sizable difference.
There are some subtle advantages that the mass version would have. For one thing, it's probably stronger during early rounds of combat if you have a lot of hybrid caster/warrior classes that want to cast spells instead of making a full attack. Also, if you don't have archers and the enemy moves around a lot, it gives you the attack without necessitating a full attack action to get it. You would get all the attacks simultaneously, without giving a flee-happy enemy a chance to get the hell out of dodge.
The last two points may or may not be true depending on the wording of the spell--first, if it doesn't call out that you can't use it on someone who is already Hasted, it could give even more attacks than Haste. Second, depending on what action it gives, the targets of the mass version may be able to use Vital Strike or even Deadly Stroke (from what I see here, it looks like Vital Strike can be used by not Deadly Stroke).
Granted Haste gives you a bunch of other good things too, so it wouldn't be an obvious choice to take Mass Serpent's Strike over Haste (though if they stack, taking both could be quite powerful--I think it depends vastly on party setup).
(though if they stack, taking both could be quite powerful).
The spell specifically says it does not stack. Also the spell grants an attack action. Not a standard action. You can't cast a spell with with a standard action casting time, charge, channel energy or similar. Only swing a weapon.
I do admit the mass version of the spell can be quite powerful in the right circumstances. Like if everyone is within the attack range of the BBEG. Everyone gets an attack off on it and it goes from half full to drops. Sure it can happen. The opposite can also happen as well. The first guy that hits and drops the BBEG (who was close to 0 beforehand) and everyone else wastes their action since there's no one there to fight.
(M)RSS is more of a middle of combat spell. Haste is first round of combat spell. MRSS can be used to change the tide of combat sure, but if you're not set up for it then its far less useful.
(though if they stack, taking both could be quite powerful).The spell specifically says it does not stack. Also the spell grants an attack action. Not a standard action. You can't cast a spell with with a standard action casting time, charge, channel energy or similar. Only swing a weapon.
I do admit the mass version of the spell can be quite powerful in the right circumstances. Like if everyone is within the attack range of the BBEG. Everyone gets an attack off on it and it goes from half full to drops. Sure it can happen. The opposite can also happen as well. The first guy that hits and drops the BBEG (who was close to 0 beforehand) and everyone else wastes their action since there's no one there to fight.
(M)RSS is more of a middle of combat spell. Haste is first round of combat spell. MRSS can be used to change the tide of combat sure, but if you're not set up for it then its far less useful.
Definitely true.
Also, I knew from above that it doesn't allow spells--what I meant by hybrid casters who want to cast a spell is that the hybrid caster casts a spell on her own turn and attacks only with the Mass Snake Strike (not an option with Haste). Example:
The Snake Quintet--
Party composition--five hybrid casters who can cast Mass Snake Strike and focus on single attack devastation (frex, if it's a Druid spell, have them wildshape into an ankylosaurus with the Vital Strike chain if they qualify). Each of the casters casts Mass Snake Strike on her own turn. At level 5, Haste would mean at most 10 attacks from this team per round (two attacks each). With this combo, they get 25 attacks per round (granted it burns through spells very quickly, but you see what I mean).
The Snake Quintet--
Party composition--five hybrid casters who can cast Mass Snake Strike and focus on single attack devastation (frex, if it's a Druid spell, have them wildshape into an ankylosaurus with the Vital Strike chain if they qualify). Each of the casters casts Mass Snake Strike on her own turn. At level 5, Haste would mean at most 10 attacks from this team per round (two attacks each). With this combo, they get 25 attacks per round (granted it burns through spells very quickly, but you see what I mean).
First off: That's one narrowly built munchkin party. We'll ignore that.
Vital Strike requires a +6 BAB which druids get at 8th level.
Wildshaping in to a huge creature cannot be done until 8th level.
So the that's a minimum of an 8th level party you're talking there. Haste at 8th level grants up to 8 extra attacks per ally in your party.
MRSS grants a maximum of 1 extra attack ally at the same level.
Looking at it like this, I am really having trouble seeing how the non-mass version of this spell is overpowered at 1 level lower than haste.
The Snake Quintet--
Party composition--five hybrid casters who can cast Mass Snake Strike and focus on single attack devastation (frex, if it's a Druid spell, have them wildshape into an ankylosaurus with the Vital Strike chain if they qualify). Each of the casters casts Mass Snake Strike on her own turn. At level 5, Haste would mean at most 10 attacks from this team per round (two attacks each). With this combo, they get 25 attacks per round (granted it burns through spells very quickly, but you see what I mean).
First off: That's one narrowly built munchkin party. We'll ignore that.
Vital Strike requires a +6 BAB which druids get at 8th level.
Wildshaping in to a huge creature cannot be done until 8th level.
So the that's a minimum of an 8th level party you're talking there. Haste at 8th level grants up to 8 extra attacks per ally in your party.
MRSS grants a maximum of 1 extra attack ally at the same level.
Looking at it like this, I am really having trouble seeing how the non-mass version of this spell is overpowered at 1 level lower than haste.
Haste is an amazing spell, no doubt about it, and it's very hard to compare to it. For the single-target version, I'd recommend a comparison to a direct damage spell--you spend an action and a level 2 spell to do some damage to a baddy, so we'd want it to be balanced roughly the same whether you do damage via a fiery bolt, an acid arrow, or your friendly neighborhood Fighter.
So let's compare to the damage capacity for the class best at direct damage--Wizard/Sorcerer. If we look at Scorching Ray, the range is better. Scorching Ray is a touch attack and the attack action taken by an ally will usually not be (Gunslingers and Magi with the crazy new arcana aside). However, presuming that you pick your best ally to target (smiting paladin, raging barbarian, ranger vs favored enemy, fighter, etc), their accuracy against most enemies' regular AC will probably compare favorably to your accuracy with a range touch (particularly if you're taking the -4 for firing into melee). So we'll call the hit chance a wash. The question is damage. Does your most damaging ally do more than 14 damage per hit at level 3 (28 at level 7, 42 at level 11). I'd say they very likely do more than 14 at level 3 (18 Str Power Attacking Fighter with a +1 greatsword does 17 without any bard song or other temporary buffs, barbarians and others do more) and also probably 28 at level 7, but 42 at level 11 is probably pushing it for your ally, so Scorching Ray will eventually overtake RSS.
Of course, most non-Wizards don't have as good of direct damage as Scorching Ray, so they get more of a boost. However, the fact that it makes your partner feel good and get spotlight is not insubstantial and I think a mark in RSS's favor. The fact that it doesn't stack with Haste I think weakens RSS significantly after level 4--if you would have Hasted anyway or if your best damage-in-one-hit ally has Boots of Speed, then RSS is almost useless (though I suppose you could still use it to buff up one party member to the extreme with combat boosts and then give them many extra attacks all in one round, rather than Hasting).
So I think from looking at this that single-target RSS is a strong 2nd-level spell in the absence of Haste (making it likely the best direct-damage-dealer in the game at level 3 and 4 unless you don't have a teammate who does solid attacks), and potentially a powerful option in a party with one main martial damage dealer and many casters. The fact that it doesn't stack with Haste, I think, will prevent it from being overpowered to any but the most focused groups, and even those could probably have done something more ridiculous by looking elsewhere. It seems powerful but fair--and extra props for giving another player's character the spotlight.
A mass version would be potentially too dangerous for multicasts--however, if it took up your allies' immediate actions to attack (thus disallowing multicasting of it in one round), I think it could be a 3rd level spell.
+1 greatsword
I don't have any argument with your math except for the above. The Wealth By Level table says that a 3rd level character should have 3000gp. So technically +1 armor and +1 weapon costs a minimum of 3450 before adding in the individual weapon's and armor's cost. Plus I assume long swords and shields (different preferences). Same math but with a masterwork longsword. The damage drops to 10 (4 weapon, 4 Str, 2 power attack). That's below scorching ray.
I will agree that for the ultra-munchkin scenarios you are presenting, there is the potential for abuse with this spell. But then again, there is the potential for abuse with the core rule book for the ultra-munchkin. I still feel that this is right in line with a regular 2nd level spell.
+1 greatswordI don't have any argument with your math except for the above. The Wealth By Level table says that a 3rd level character should have 3000gp. So technically +1 armor and +1 weapon costs a minimum of 3450 before adding in the individual weapon's and armor's cost. Plus I assume long swords and shields (different preferences). Same math but with a masterwork longsword. The damage drops to 10 (4 weapon, 4 Str, 2 power attack). That's below scorching ray.
I will agree that for the ultra-munchkin scenarios you are presenting, there is the potential for abuse with this spell. But then again, there is the potential for abuse with the core rule book for the ultra-munchkin. I still feel that this is right in line with a regular 2nd level spell.
You're absolutely right about the +1--sorry about that. The reason I actually picked the greatsword is because the caster can choose their favorite martial character in the whole party for this spell. If there's a TWFer (like a guy with a longsword and shield, which is also an awesome style for a fighter--just look at my guide, they're my favorite) skip him and cast on the highest single-hit damager. If you don't have any character with a high damage attack (things like Sneak Attack, two-handed weapon, smite, favored enemy, or buffs), just cast Scorching Ray. I agree that multicasting the mass-spell is pretty munchy, but I think the greatsworder (minus the +1) is pretty vanilla. I think it's situationally better than Scorching Ray (and you'll always know beforehand whether its better or not based on your party, so if you dont have a one-hitter on your team, you can just pack Scorching Rays).
For the record, as I mentioned above, I think the single-target Snake Strike spell that's in the book is an interesting balanced option for damage at level 2 that will see a lot of play--and really, when I buy a book for new spells, I wouldn't want to see spells that were so conservatively designed that my players would rarely care to learn them, plus it makes the other character shine, so I definitely approve.
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OK, I really need to spend some time digging through all of my favorite 3PP's catalogs...I didn't even know this was out there, lol. Got it now though, and with Hero Lab files, sweet!
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