|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
Check out the stuff from Legendary Games. They have a slew of mythic "Righteous Crusade" plug ins. I have used several of them. Made by some of the same people who created Wrath.
Thanks for the reply!
I did a quick search and found Road to War: The Equinox Crown, which looks interesting, and then everything else was collections of stat blocks for NPC's or new magic items, nothing else with that might be used as a supplemental adventure or side quest. Is that about it on that front?
I'm revisiting WotR and trying to pre-plan out the full campaign. Ignoring the Mythic rule set (as I intend to), are there any other modules, scenarios or adventures out there either set in the Worldwound or appropriate to the setting that comes highly recommended?
Any suggestions are much appreciated.
The Guy With A Face wrote:
I've always found Sacred Summons to be a bit confusing, but as I understand it, the creature's type or subtype has to match your aura, not just their alignment... meaning that if I'm Lawful Good, I can use the feat to summon Archons (who possess both the Lawful and Good subtypes) but not Angels or Devas (who possess only the Good subtype)... to summon Angels and Devas as a standard action with the feat, I'd have to be Neutral Good (I think), but then I wouldn't be able to get Archons.
As a character I'm probably going to run as Chaotic Neutral, I don't know how many options that leaves for me.
I've been looking for the opportunity to play this particular concept for a while, and it appears that both Hell's Vengeance and/or Strange Aeons might offer me that chance... the concept revolves around a dwarf whom was captured by Aboleths deep, deep below the Earth and was kept as a slave, his sanity being driven to the brink. When he escaped he fled as fast and as far as he could in the one direction he knew would get him away - up, towards the surface... and when he finally emerged on a beautiful winter's night and got his first look at the surface world, the sight that greeted him was the same infinite blackness, the same... nothing, forever... that had haunted his dreams deep below. It was enough to break his mind. Thereafter he's become convinced of his (and everyone's) eventual doom and has become an occasionally muttering, occasionally ravening lunatic, but one from whom the genuine insight of fools and children will occasionally slip free. There are a lot of different directions to go from there, but that's the general concept.
This is what I want him to be able to do:
To take the Domain of Madness and get the maximum benefit from the highly versatile Visions of Madness domain power.
To specialize in summoning creatures as his primary offensive and defensive options (what he considers to be his maddened dreams given form).
Focus on eventually using Planeshift as a weapon, effectively banishing foes into the nothingness of the Void that haunts.
To be able to role-play his rantings as something mechanically effective.
My first thought would be to make him a Cleric of Azathoth, prophesying his eventual arrival as a sort of nihilistic herald of doom. Make him an Evangelist (the archetype that grants Bardic Performance), take the Madness Domain, Magical Lineage for Planeshift and a feat breakdown that looks something like this:
1st - Spell Focus: Conjuration
Obviously, feats are at a premium, but keep in mind, I'm not trying to make this guy a game-breaker, just trying to make him as effective as possible within the core concept.
Now, looking at some other options, I'm starting to wonder about whether I could make for a better fit as an Inquisitor, using the Monster Tactician archetype or possibly even as a Herald Caller, though I'd lose the Domain that ties all of this together. Two of the bigger concerns have been trying to figure out a way to get Standard action summoning and/or spontaneous casting of divine Summoning spells.
Any thoughts would be welcome, any advice much appreciated.
I'm very appreciative of everyone's input thus far - it seems to me that I really need to include the build so that my concerns are easier to see and some of the advice I'm being offered better addressed.
Dwarven 1st level Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer) / 11th level Alchemist (Lamplighter)
Attributes: (after racial modifiers)
Feats & Talents:
[That's an awful lot for a one level dip, plus spells and save bump]
I do delay Studied Combat for a level, but I get it at the exact same time as Quick Study and in the meantime, starting at 1st level I get Studied Target which in time will stack, so that more than makes up for the delay in my opinion.
What I don't know enough about are the Alchemical options and if I should make an effort to pursue them sooner - mutagens, with a cursory glance, seem to be a superb combat option.
Here is a snapshot of the character at 2nd & 6th level with basic gear and no spells active:
Dwarven 1st level Sanctified Slayer / 1st level Lamplighter
STR - 14, DEX - 14, CON - 14, INT - 15, WIS - 16, CHA - 5
Dwarven 1st level Sanctified Slayer / 5th level Lamplighter
STR - 14, DEX - 14, CON - 14, INT - 16, WIS - 18, CHA - 5
I'm actually really happy with my skill spread as it is, though obviously there will be occasional tinkering, and that's what I want the strength of the character to be (little things like Studied Target or Guidance aren't even included above), and I'm fine with my defenses for a non-frontliner - who doesn't love a +11 save vs. Enchantments at 2nd level? What I'm looking for from those of you more experienced with Investigators and Alchemists are what alchemical options I should pursue and when and how they might synergize with the existing character, as well as what changes I might have to make to accommodate them without unraveling the whole thing. Weapon Focus seems like an early feat I could part with if necessary, but I was thinking Deific Obediance/Irori might start drifting into overkill territory. Also, is there anything I've included which looks like it might not be PFS legal (I can never keep track of all the exceptions & eratta).
Any special gear I should be especially looking at? A Keen Warpick and the usual 'Big 6' are all I'm thinking of right now.
Thanks again for all of your help and advice.
That's one of the things I'm trying to figure out... from what I've been able to put together, he'll have some solid buffs and de-buffs (Blistering Invective seems ideal for him) and won't be useless in combat... I suppose once Skills have all been addressed, I'd like to be versatile enough to fill in wherever needed. I'm trying to learn about Alchemical options right now, to see what doors that might open up for me.
Right now he has really high Knowledge skills, as well as Perception, Sense Motive and the like to go along with the Social skills. I suppose I should post the build, so people can see what I'm working with?
Other important skills are keyed off of Wisdom and then there's Will saves and the fact that Dwarves get bonuses to Wisdom... and the Monster Lore class feature is pretty huge. I'm planning on using my limited traits and feats for other things.
I'll definitely check out the Empiricist - right now I'm kind of liking the look of Lamplighter.
As designed right now, the character will have a 16 Wisdom and an 18 Intelligence before gear, so I'm not neglecting either.
I'm looking at taking a 1-level dip into the Sacred Slayer Inquisitor for Studied Target, Conversion Inquisition for Wisdom to Diplomacy, Intimidate & Bluff and Monster Lore... then going all-in on the Investigator for everything else.
I'm trying to decide if a 2nd level of Inquisitor is worth it (for Cunning Initiative, primarily), and am unsure of what restriction pitfalls I might run into. Also, in order to remain relevant in combat at later levels, what Alchemical avenues should I pursue that are open? Any particular Investigator archetypes that seem particularly well suited to this concept?
Planning on going Dwarf with Steel Soul and Glory of Old btw.
Qhorrin, Half-Elven 2nd level Divine Hunter / 15th level Battle Oracle (Powerless Prophecy Curse)
Daenar, Human 2nd level Unbreakable Fighter / 15th level Invulnerable Rager
Llyra, Kitsune 17th level Serpentine Sorcerer
Gr'rub, Goblin 2nd level Master of Many Styles / 15th level Brawler
Really going well so far... best part about it has been the character backgrounds and the way they tie in to the overall story.
Generally speaking, I expect to open combat with a buff spell, attack at range and then help heal up afterwards. Generally, though the character was deliberately built to be pretty versatile.
Given that, I think Gravity Bow might be the way I go, though up til now that 'opener' as been reserved for Divine Favor (Fate's Favored trait to go along with being a Cayden Cailean worshipper).
At this point, these are the spells I know (keep in mind that the Wizard spell will also be spontaneously cast):
0 level - Detect Magic, Enhanced Diplomacy, Guidance, Light, Mending, Resistance
The character uses both a reach weapon (Fauchard) and a Composite Bow. I was looking at the other more utilitarian spells to provide some out-of-combat versatility as it seems we usually have combat locked down pretty tight. I like Silent Image too but our Sorcerer already has it... FWIW, next level I'll be taking Communal Protection vs. Evil.
Often times I look at combat spells as if they were being cast on the 1st round of combat rather than in preparation ahead of time, and ask myself 'does this give me a better advantage' than what else I might normally do with a standard action?
Since the character is a Battle Oracle with the Powerless Prophecy curse (Staggered first round of combat), I'm thinking Gravity Bow might be the way to go.
Alright, technically a 2nd level Paladin (Divine Hunter) / 4th level Oracle (Ancient Lore Keeper), but the question remains the same.
In a party with two very tanky martials and an enchantment-focused Sorcerer. I'm the group's sole source of healing and have solid melee and ranged ability as well, just to fill in as needed. I started looking at the list of potentials and I just couldn't seem narrow it down between useful and combat-oriented spells...
I tend to lean away from spells that require saving throws, simply because the build isn't designed to produce high DC's... though the spell will technically count as a 2nd level spell.
Any advice would be appreciated.
I'm starting to think a trip build might be a legit option as well. As a Half-Elf I can use Ancestral Arms to qualify for a Fauchard, and I think I can talk my GM into allowing me to take the Revelation Weapon Mastery a second time for a different weapon. Something like this (again, this is a two level dip in Divine Hunter and then leveling as a Battle Oracle with the Powerless Prophecy curse):
[ ] - Revelation
Ranged attacks, melee attacks, trip attacks, buff spells... am I developing good versatility or trying to do too much?
Got a group that includes a couple of very tanky melee types and an Enchantment-focused Sorcerer... I was thinking that we needed a decent ranged threat who could also handle some healing and buffing responsibilities. After talking it over with my GM, he agreed to give me access to the Ancient Lore Keeper Oracle as a Half-Elf (a little RP/backstory stuff did the trick), but I've heard that ranged Oracles aren't as effective as one might hope, particularly due to BAB & feat limitations. Fortunately our GM grants Power Attack, Deadly Aim and Combat Expertise to anyone who meets the pre-requisites and has done away with Point Blank Shot, so that helps a little.
What I'm looking at now is taking a couple levels of the Divine Hunter Paladin archetype and then going into the Lore Keeper Oracle, selecting Battle as my mystery and Powerless Prophecy as my curse. The general plan is to open combat with buffs, supporting combat with ranged attacks and then cleaning up afterwards with healing spells, with some Knowledge & Social skills to help out outside of combat. I'd really appreciate any thoughts anyone could offer with regards to Revelations and Feat selections and anything else I might not have considered - thanks in advance!
Between Barkskin (extended with a rod you make), Huge Air Elemental Form, Wis to AC you can have a great AC, plus a very high Sense Motive check for attacks that roll high or those annoying touch spells. You can pick up huge creatures (In PFS I have juggled Hill Giants, Stone Golems, Girallons and lots of humanoids, swarms and oozes).
An air elemental with skin made of bark?
First off, I very much appreciate the responses. A couple of quick clarifications:
The Aasimar twins together will have solid ranged options - battle dance + high dex + arcane strike + various other potential buffs do indeed add up. I just meant to say that we didn't have the sort of ranged threat that a dedicated archer or blaster-type might offer and wasn't sure if that would be a big detriment or not.
Skill-wise the way we're kind of looking at things is the Dervishes will have effectively maxed out Perception, Stealth, Acrobatics and (via Versatile Performance) Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Bluff and Intimidate, all fairly soon. They'll also have a touch of Knowledge: Religion and Escape Artist.
The Oracle will have Healing and a pretty diverse smattering of Knowledges while the Summoner will have Knowledge: Planes for certain.
Apart from trap-finding, what skills would we be lacking that the AP might require?
I'll look into the Player's Guide. Perhaps one twin would focus on Perception with Trap-Finding and the other on Disable Device? The two plan on serving as the 'scouts' of the group already.
EDIT: Shaman, I really appreciate the effort put into that lengthy and informative response, but the players are in love with the idea of playing identical builds intended to be complimentary. The Halfling player actually seriously considered running an Archeologist (with a dip in Halfling Opportunist) but felt that the group lacked any sort of legitimate 'tank' and has always wanted to run a Summoner type.
First off, I know there is no one who technically has trap finding. That's a concern and one we're trying to figure out how to address, but no one wants to have their characters dictated by something like that.
The group looks like this:
Human Oracle (Ancestor) whom intends to take some levels of Living Monolith, one at least.
Aasimar Dawnflower Dervish
Now the group lacks a particularly dangerous ranged threat (as well as the aforementioned trap finding issues), but all are casters and all are competent combatants and we feel like it'd be pretty strong against most challenges both in and out of combat.
Thanks for the comments!
I keep thinking not to worry about Flight because of the bloodline abilities, but they won't come online until 15th which makes them next to useless in PFS.
I doubt I'll spend much money on items for my AC apart from getting the nicest Amulet of Mighty fists that I can afford... but I'll look at some of the other options.
Animal Growth is pretty amazing, I've never looked at it before - if I invest in it, should I also use a later spell slot for Summon Monster, with an eye towards using the two together (when summoning animals, of course)? Perhaps with that 6th level spell slot at level 12 that I forgot to include..? Or would that slot be better used for something like Transformation to really pile on the bonuses?
Remember that Kitsune get +1 to Enchantment DC's every four levels due to their Sorcerer FCB in addition to the racial bonus at 1st level. I'm definitely planning on taking advantage of that!
So Enlarge Person will in fact work on my AC? this is the first time I'm playing one and the Share Spells ability specifically said spells with a target of personal, so I wasn't sure...
This is for a PFS character, a Kitsune Wildblooded Sorcerer (Sylvan) who will have a full animal companion and intends to use spells as buffs for her party and AC and for enchantments. I'm just posting the final level 12 spell choices to save space - there will have been some swap outs as the character levels up and some spells become more or less effective.
* Bloodline spells
Is there anything I'm lacking to fill my role or anything I haven't considered? Do I have too much of anything? My goal will be to use my animal companion (probably one of the big ones, like Allosaurus or Spinosuarus) to be my 'stand in' in combat, either protecting me or more often providing a little more melee firepower for the group while I try to lock down the biggest threats. I can't really do anything about some of the subpar bloodline spells, but they're not all bad.
I figure I'll be able to do the following things:
Solo buffs (primarily for Animal Companion):
Solo control spells:
Battlefield control spells:
I'm also planning on taking Eldritch Heritage at 7th level and Improved Familiar at 9th, probably sticking with the Fey theme and going with a Faerie Dragon so I can add its utility to my own. Is that a good or a bad idea? Also, would 'Share Spells' allow Enlarge Person to be cast on an Animal Companion? And would Grease be a better choice than Obscuring Mist, considering that I'll be taking it around 6th level?
Benefit: You gain +3 hit points. For every Hit Die you possess beyond 3, you gain an additional +1 hit point. If you have more than 3 Hit Dice, you gain +1 hit points whenever you gain a Hit Die (such as when you gain a level).
If I receive Toughness at 6th level, do I gain 6 hit points, 3 hit points and then 1 for each level thereafter or none until I level up again?
Third Mind wrote:
In our Wrath of the Righteous run, we had two twins who were Aasimar Dawnflower Dervishes and ardent followers of Sarenrae. They took a couple of levels of Lore Warden for teamwork feats and ended up with Broken Wing Gambit and Paired Opportunists early, eventually taking Seize the Moment later. Fighting side by side they were devastating - whenever someone attacked one they both got AoO's off, whenever one of them landed a crit (which was often with a threat on 15+), the other got an AoO. It chained really well and made for a great concept of two quick and agile warriors whom had grown up fighting together.
Aasimar Musetouched Dawnflower Dervish
The accelerated Battle Dance and various combine to make you devastating in melee and strong at range. You'll take spells that buff, cure and have utility (rather than spells that require saves), and with Versatile Performance you'll have the best social skills in the game. Its not a complicated character and its not a hard character to play but the versatility it offers should give you plenty of opportunities to grow.
At 1st level, with nothing more than a Masterwork Scimitar, you'll be +7 attack & deal 1d6+7 damage with a high crit chance. At 4th level, with just Allegro and a +1 Scimitar, you'll get two attacks per round at +13 (hitting the average CR 4 with a 4 or better) and dealing 1d6+10 each. Just to put things in perspective.
Dawnflower Dervish. I played one through Wrath of the Righteous and I'm starting my first PFS one thing weekend. Highly versatile and devastatingly effective from level 1. Let me know if you're interested in a build.
One of the things I try to take into account (and all that formula may have) is how likely I am to hit an equivalent level foe. If my attack bonus is so high that it's all but guaranteed, PA seems a better choice than if I'm struggling to hit. In this case I find a properly built DD to have a well above average chance to hit, especially once I start including magical gear.
Victor Zajic wrote:
I don't think that's a spoiler, just something that happened in our game - our GM rewrites tons of stuff in the AP's. And I can't change it now anyway. :(
Gwen Smith wrote:
Again, I really appreciate your input. The levels are taken when they are specifically to take advantage of the FCB that accelerates the advancement of Inspire Courage. I could accept that ruling on Discordant Voice and if there's going to be even a chance if it's applying differently from table to table I'd prefer to avoid it.
I'll probably go the Improved Critical route, and though I'll probably have a Keen weapon long before I select the feat, I'll be able to buy another '+' once I have it. Then Oil of Bless Weapon should be well worth it's cost.
Maybe something like this? Here I'm taking Weaponmaster at levels 5, 6, 7 & 12.
Did we ever figure out if Discordant Voice stacked if more than one person is using it? If so I'd stick with the above, but if not, I might be more inclined to make those last two feats:
11th - Improved Critical
Seize the Moment would really make those other Teamwork feats come together and taking Improved Critical probably means I can afford another enhancement on my weapon other than Keen... not that I'm likely to do a lot of post-12th level play.
Dorothy Lindman wrote:
Thanks for your response!
Power Attack is clearly less effective, not just as a one-handed character but also as a 3/4 BAB class - I just found that the attack bonuses seemed high enough to support its use, and +4 or +6 damage is still nothing to sneeze at.
I realize that not all of the Teamwork feats are complimentary, but I thought it might be good to have more than one option - feats that benefit us when we're flanking and feats that benefit us when we're adjacent; is that trying to do too much? In my opinion the strongest combo in this build is using Broken Wing Gambit and Paired Opportunists, since it will give us each an AoO whenever one of us is attacked, though it is dependent on us both hitting them first.
That's a good thought about Weaponmaster - I never tend to take gear into account when pre-planning my characters. Is that bonus worthwhile, in your opinion, for bumping both my next Inspire Courage and all my spells another level down the road?
Hi all! I'm relatively new to PFS, but I was looking at one of the builds/concepts that was effective in our recent Wrath of the Righteous run as something I might be able to 'port over. The twins in question were Aasimar Dawnflower Dervishes who turned out to be descendants of Sarenrae herself, and after seeing them in action in a home game, I was wondering if they would be equally effective in PFS. I realize I might be getting into the game a hair too late to make the exact build a reality since Aasimar are walking out the door, but the build could be almost or equally as effective as a Human.
The thought process was to go Dawnflower Dervish and fight side-by-side, utilizing Battle Dance and Teamwork feats to maximize one another's effectiveness. This isn't the exact build, for many reasons, but its a reasonable facsimile of what was run in the AP. Levels 5 and 6 are Lore Warden for the additional feats offered and because it fits both the feel of the characters and the PFS society.
For the first four levels they should be plenty effective on their own - after they gain their second bump to Inspire Courage (thanks to the FCB), they begin piling on Teamwork feats. Side-by-side, both using Broken Wing Gambit and both taking advantage of Paired Opportunists to get off two AoO's against anyone who attacks them, and later, layering Precise Strike and Discordant Voice to rev up their damage... from what I can tell, two concurrent instances of Discordant Voice should stack, for both they and their teammates.
Of course, that's not even getting into spells...
I would build these characters for I and a friend, intended for when we're both playing together at the same table, we'll have other characters for when we're not. Those of you whom have been involved in PFS for a while, what do you think?
We're talking about the possibility, using some of the best Bards we've seen in our groups. Right now we're looking at:
Twin Aasimar (Azata) Dervishes of Dawn
The Dervishes are considering taking a couple of levels of Lore Warden to take some teamwork feats to use together while the Archeologist is thinking about taking a couple of levels of Halfling Opportunist for RP purposes, but we're not sure if that would be cheating... the Human is going to go spell-crazy with his FCB and the Eldritch Heritage feats for the Arcane Bloodline.
Again, why specifically mention SLA's in the first part of the ability description and specifically omit them in the second part?
What about SLA's that don't have a spell equivalent?
I considered that, but the fact that the ability specifically mentions spell-like abilities in the first part of the description and specifically omits it in the second seems to dictate proper intent.
And even then the above quote isn't quite right - do SLA's provoke AoO's? Spells do. Do SLA's that don't mimic existing spells qualify for Quicken SLA? I've seen some pretty compelling arguments that they shouldn't... just a few examples which suggest that while they function is a mostly similar manner, they are definitely not the same thing.
Indeed. We have an Invulnerable Rager at our table - based on his build, its looking like he'll have DR 18/- by 12th level and it'll continue to grow from there. His Superstition bonus will be +7 and rising. You don't need much healing when nothing in your CR level can damage you...
I'm having him check his math now.
Thanks - that was my initial interpretation but it was brought up at the table, and when I started searching past threads on the issue, it seemed to become more and more muddied.
James Risner wrote:
I understand that people are in that camp - I'm trying to understand what in RAW validates that position... I don't really have a dog in this fight, but do I need to understand how it officially works.
And what about something like Bardic Performance? That's little more than inspiring and there are tons of examples of such even in Barbaric cultures. If they did have to save, would they have to save every round?
The fact that all of a Barbarian's abilities are specified as Extraordinary abilities is very telling, I think.
...and I'm sure it comes as no surprise. I used the search and found more confusion than answers.
The ability specifies that the Barbarian gains the benefit against any spell, spell-like ability or supernatural spell. It then says that the Barbarian can't be the willing recipient of any spells and must make a save against them.
Must make a save against any spells. It says that specifically, but specifically omits the previously mentioned spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities. That seems pretty cut and dried to me, but after searching, it seems some hold that one must save against spell-like abilities as well, while others think they must save against all three. Then I read that they have to save against potions, extracts and even magical abilities granted by gear they are wearing.
Which of the following would a Barbarian using Superstition have to save against and why:
A Cure Light Wounds spell?
A Cure Light Wounds potion?
Having Touch of Rage cast upon them (Orchish Bloodline)?
Having Aura of Heroism activated by a nearby ally (Heroism Subdomain)?
Activating a Ring of Feather Falling?
Thanks in advance...
Just goes to show that the problem with Paladins is as much the fault of the GM's (at least as often) as it is with the players.
If a Paladin is sincerely trying to do good then he should really never fall, unless the GM wants him to... and if he does cross the line, I'd expect some sort of divine warning before all of his class features are simply stripped from him - the Paladin is there to do his deity's work after all, and what use is a servant who's been neutered? The deity WANTS the PC to have these powers and would only take them away if they were used in a manner that hurt their faith rather than upholding it.
I can just see a God thinking 'yeah, I know you were on your way to investigate and ultimately destroy that evil cult which is about to open a portal into the abyss through which demons can come pouring into your world... but you punched an evil bartender without proper cause, so I guess the greater good will have to suffer'...
I'm so glad we went to Paladins being primal avatars of alignment rather than the way they're written. Paladins of Order, Chaos, Good and Evil - much easier to play and they avoid stepping on the toes of Clerics and Oracles.
Now the thought of that just gives me the willies... *shudder*
We just like to gameplan our characters ahead of time - it gets us excited about the AP, keeps us committed to the group. Its a living document, though, nothing etched in stone.
Case in point - I was the one who was going to run the Dervish and now I'm seriously rethinking it. The Summoner, eidolon and Barbarian should be more than enough to handle front-line duties so I'm thinking of running a Cleric instead, one my husband designed for Slumbering Tsar but was never used. I figure an Evangelist taking the Glory-Heroism Domain will let me load up on buffs the group can use, will give me access to strong 'face' abilities and open up those healing spells we know we're lacking. Offensively I'll use Sacred Summons and eventually a little 'bad touch' action with Planshift as a perfected spell.
As an aside, I don't think anyone in our group is going to be taking advantage of those 'hybrid' classes any time soon.
That looks like a good party. None of your party can cast remove disease though, and I'm willing to bet there will be a good number of mummies over the course of this AP...
Yeah, our philosophy tends to be to kill or incapacitate things quickly rather than have prolonged fights which require more healing, but the 'side' threats like poison, disease and ability drain are a concern. Both Bards are planning on taking UMD though, so that might help...