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Mercurial's page

988 posts. Alias of Wiggz.


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According to the PRD:

Offensive Defense** (Ex): When a rogue with this talent hits a creature with a melee attack that deals sneak attack damage, the rogue gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC for each sneak attack die rolled for 1 round.

Note that rogue talents marked with a double asterisk (**) in this list add effects to a rogue's sneak attack. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual attack, and the decision must be made before the attack roll is made.

Now, Dodge bonuses stack with themselves, so let's say I had a Two-Weapon Fighting Rogue with a Sneak Attack of +5d6 who managed to hit a flanked foe twice in the same round (10d6 sneak attack total), does that mean that the Rogue gained a +10 Dodge bonus to his AC or a +5 Dodge bonus?

Also, as it reads, the Dodge bonus applies to all attacks that target the Rogue's AC, not only the those from the creature who took the sneak attack damage, correct?

Alright, so I'm planning on running a Seasinger Bard/Inspired Blade Swashbuckler. I'm having trouble deciding how many levels of each and when to take them. I know I want at least 5 levels of both, and to complicate matters I'd love to work in a level of Urban Barbarian as well. Race will definitely be Human.

Our GM told us to plan to reach 17th level and told us that we would have an NPC Cleric most of the way. The rest of the group will be:

Half-Elven Master Summoner with a specialized summoning list (aquatic, avian and elementals only)

Human invulnerable Rager Barbarian

Human Rogue

Any advice would be most welcome. :)

Alright, so I made several sample builds, swapping the Barbarian dip for various iterations of of Monk, 1 level or 2 levels, standard and MoMS... going Monk I get a mild bump in saves and accelerate my AC progression a fair bit, but I take a -4 attack penalty and a -3 damage penalty (-1 BAB, no Focused Rage, +1 enhancement instead of a Furious Weapon). I think that's more than I want to lose... I'm still looking at it though.

Again, I appreciate all of the advice.

The Shaman wrote:

I am generally ok with power attack on swashbucklers, but for halflings it can be a pain in the posterior getting enough strength.

However, what about risky striker? Halfling swashbucklers should have quite high AC from their high dexterity and class features alone, and that is before you consider the crane style feat chain. Trading some of that for damage when you need to is imo definitely a good option. Yes, the extra damage only applies against creatures that are 2+ size categories larger than you... but that is quite a few creatures.

I find that to be an ideal option for Martial Flexibility, just one of many reasons that I have the Brawler dip as part of this build.

Jodokai wrote:
You're probably going to be all right with your saves. I leveled my Inspired Blade Swashbuckler to level 10 in PFS and with Charmed Life, rarely had any issues. I didn't bother using it with Reflex, I only used it on really important Fort saves, and always used it on Will saves. This method I never ran out of uses and rarely had issues.

Ugh - unfortunately Charmed Life won't work with Irrepressible.

666bender wrote:
Mercurial wrote:

Again, considering that this is a PFS character, the otherwise-oh-so-automatic MoMS dip simply isn't a viable option.

whats the change? you still get +2X3 saves and the ability to add 2 style feats no ?

As I understand it, MoMS isn't PFS-legal, if that's what you're asking...

666bender wrote:
just take str 10-12 after racial for not falling after the first str damaging rogue - and piranha strike

While I love everything about this character concept, its not hard to see that his weaknesses will be STR damage and Will saves.

Unfortunately I can't use Pirahna Strike with a Rapier - even a small Rapier, which I find frustrating to no end. However, Halflings do get the Risky Striker feat as an option to make up for it.

Crillitor wrote:
Swordmaster's flair is priced individually

Thank you! I couldn't find anywhere that was stated definitively... makes sense though.

Crillitor wrote:

I'm playing a swashbuckler in a hell's rebels game and I'm having a BLAST!!

I would suggest more of a stat investment in str due to equipment weight and power attack. at level four you are gaining the same benefit of power attack as focused rage. I would also suggest going vanilla swashbuckler or the mouser swashbuckler for the halfling and getting fencing grace at a later level (level 5ish). damage escalates very quickly and you can easily shine as a short man wielding your toothpick rapier.

Int can easily be a dump stat if you don't go inspired blade. Use your favored class bonus to get an extra skill per level and let the wizard, alchemist, or bards do the knowledge checks.

Don't forget your plume of panache and swordmaster's flair(blue scarf)

I may get the same damage benefit from Power Attack as Focused Rage, but not the attack bonus which is the far more important of the two IMO, and then there's Reflex saves, skill checks like Acrobatics and Escape Artist, etc. I kind of like having a fair number of skills and more frequent uses of Charmed Life at the same time and I just don't know if I can wait that long for Fencing Grace... but maybe... I'm not ruling too much out just yet.

Could someone please answer my question about Swordmaster's Flair???

666bender wrote:

you need to be wary about saves (fort and will). i think that dip 2 monk master of many styles is amazing.

+2 to alll saves, imp unarmed strike (crane , snake for damage) and more.

also, other than the parry , there isnt a single (+) for a swashbuckler VS a cavalier (daring champion).

Fort saves are actually pretty good because of my dips - and of course there's Charmed Life. In a pinch, I can even raise my CON via Focused Rage if I need to beat a disease or poison save.

Again, considering that this is a PFS character, the otherwise-oh-so-automatic MoMS dip simply isn't a viable option.

Mercurial wrote:
My confusion is that one feat references a mechanic in the other feat that doesn't exist anywhere in its wording. I honestly have no idea where its coming from. No where in Crane Wing does it suggest that anything can cause you to lose your dodge bonus, but Crane Riposte acts as if it does. What is the mechanic, exactly?
Charon's Little Helper wrote:

It's right in the Crane Wing description -

SRD wrote:

Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks. If a melee attack misses you by 4 or less, you lose this dodge bonus until the beginning of your next turn.

If you using the total defense action instead, you can deflect one melee attack that would normally hit you. An attack so deflected deals no damage and has no other effect (instead treat it as a miss). You do not expend an action when using this feat, but you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

Alright, someone needs to help me out a bit here. I've moved on from the fact that the Archives of Nethys and the OGC seem to have different wording in their versions of the feat, but I'm looking at the PRD right HERE, and I don't see that wording.

BretI wrote:

Spelling it out a little bit.

You are using Crane Wing. Someone attacks you and misses you by 1. From that point until your next turn, you lose the +4 Dodge Bonus to AC that Crane Wing normally gives.

Thanks for clarifying that - if correct, they sure like to needlessly complicate things, don't they?

Lune wrote:

Mercurial: I don't understand what you do not understand about the "miss by 4 or more" bit. It works as advertised.

I'm not a fan of the Barbarian levels or the Brawler levels. IMO you would get more out of one or two levels of Master of Many Styles Monk. The small benefit that +4 Dex would bring for the limited amount of rounds you can do it for seems a lot less than what 2 style feats, +3 to all saves, Evasion, free Unarmed Strike and the option to go armorless. With your Dex as high as it is going to be and limits on Max Dex for armor, the availability of Wands of Mage Armor (or Bracers of Defense if you are so inclined) and armorless being very Swashbucklery it does make it a desirable option.

Also I would suggest dropping Weapon Specialization. I would take Mobility in its place and go for 4 levels into Duelist. Adding your Int to your AC and to your damage will make up the difference that Weapon Specialization leaves and gets you Combat Reflexes for free. If you already have it then you can retrain your previous feat for something else. IMO 5 levels of Swashbuckler makes for a good jumping off point anyway.

My confusion is that one feat references a mechanic in the other feat that doesn't exist anywhere in its wording. I honestly have no idea where its coming from. No where in Crane Wing does it suggest that anything can cause you to lose your dodge bonus, but Crane Riposte acts as if it does. What is the mechanic, exactly?

I appreciate the other suggestions - since the character is intended as much for PFS as anything, MoMS is right out. I will look at Duelist as an option, but remember I'm losing a lot for those levels, including precision damage, weapon training advances and so on. I'll already have Combat Reflexes from very early on as it is. Having said that, I'm not specifically married to Weapon Specialization, but the +4 damage all at once is nice.

Honestly, getting to use any existing combat feat you qualify 4/day is just ridiculous for a 1 level dip - I've been experimenting with it and the advantage is significant from 6th level all throughout the life of the character. These are just some of the options that become available, and the added versatility is more than worth it imo.

Blind-Fighting, Crane Style/Crane Wing/Crane Riposte, Cautious Fighter, Combat Stamina, Dazzling Display, Deflect Arrows, Footslasher, Lunge/Monkey Lunge, Risky Striker, Seize Advantage, Strike Back, Weapon Specialization/Greater Weapon Specialization, Wingclipper

Did you see the updated build or are your comments based on the initial one?

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Mercurial wrote:
Thinking about that though, so often if you land a crit your foe is already dead or nearly so,
That's actually less true for Swashbucklers than most classes. This is because a lot of their damage comes from Precise Strike, and it isn't multiplied on a crit.

Yeah, I'm staying conscious of that, but I'm still adding DEX, enhancement bonuses, training bonuses and specialization bonuses so its still pretty high output, both critting and not. I'm not saying the damage is at auto-kill levels or anything, but like as not the foe won't be alive long enough for me to enjoy the full benefits of so many feats invested in critical hits. I think increasing AC and gaining additional AoO's is probably a more efficient use of those slots.

I would definitely appreciate any clarifications to my questions above regarding Weapon Tricks, Swordmaster's Flair and the Crane Style feat line (and thanks again for everything so far), but in the meantime this is how I'm reconsidering the build, using the options discussed above:

1st Sw1 - Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Finesse (Rapier only), Fencing Grace
2nd Sw2
3rd Sw3 - Combat Reflexes
4th Sw4 - Weapon Trick: Stylish Riposte
5th Sw5 - Dodge, Improved Critical: Rapier
6th Br1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, [Martial Flexibility 4/day]
7th Bn1 - Extra Rage, [Focused Rage, Crowd Control]
8th Sw6
9th Sw7 - Greater Weapon Focus: Rapier
10th Sw8 - Crane Style
11th Sw9 - Crane Wing
12th Sw10
13th Sw11 - Cautious Fighter, [Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge]
14th Sw12 - Lunge
15th Br2 - Weapon Specialization: Rapier, Greater Weapon Specialization: Rapier
16th Sw13
17th Sw14 - Crane Wing Riposte
18th Sw15
19th Sw16 - Extra Panache, Extra Rage
20th Sw17

I'm sacrificing Improved Initiative and the Critical feats and pushing Specialization back in favor of a much better AC and more opportunities to gain additional attacks. A nice bonus will be the ability to 'grandfather in' the next needed feat that I qualify for using Martial Flexibility (like Crane Style at 6th level). Overall, I think its a good trade off.

Here's a snap-shot of him at 7th level, with gear and whatnot, assuming he's using Focused Rage and burns the move action to activate Martial Flexibility:

Illyrio, 7th level:
7th level:
(using Martial Flexibility for Crane Style and Focused Rage)

HP 61, Initiative +7, Move 30’, Panache: 6, Rage: 12 rounds
Fort +10, Reflex +16, Will +2/+7 vs. Charm & Compulsion effects (Charmed Life 4/day)

AC 30 (w/Stylish Riposte)
10 +1 [Small] +6 [Dex] +6 [Chain Shirt] +1 [Nimble] +1 [Dodge] +3 [Defensive] +1 [Acrobatics] +1 [Ring]

Attack: +18/+13 (crit. 15+)
+7/+2 [BAB] +5 [DEX] +1 [Focus] +1 [Small] +1 [Rapier] +1 [Training] -2 [Defensive] +2 [Rage] +2 [Furious]

Damage: 1d4+17 (crit. 2d4+29)
1d4+1 [Rapier] +5 [DEX] +5 [Precise] +2 [Training] +2 [Rage] +2 [Furious]

Mithril Chain Shirt +2 (5,000), Furious Mithril Silver Rapier +1 (8,500), Cloak of Resistance +2 (4,000), Belt of Dexterity +2 (4,000), Ring of Protection +1 (2,000)

One of the things I begin to question is the effectiveness of Opportune Parry and Riposte given how high my AC begins to climb, which is making me eye the suggested Whirling Dervish archetype a little more strongly - or at the very least reconsider the best uses of my swift actions each round.

Alright, I'm looking into the Crane Wing Style feats and I can see the value there, but I'm also getting pretty confused. Nevermind that multiple sources have completely different wording on the feats, just going off the PRD this is how they read:

Crane Style (Combat, Style)
Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +2 or monk level 1st.
Benefit: You take only a –2 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively. While using this style and fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class.

Crane Wing (Combat)
Crane Style, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +5 or monk level 5th.
Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks. If you using the total defense action instead, you can deflect one melee attack that would normally hit you. An attack so deflected deals no damage and has no other effect (instead treat it as a miss). You do not expend an action when using this feat, but you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

Crane Riposte (Combat)
Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8 or monk level 7th.
Benefit: You take only a -1 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively. Whenever you deflect an opponent's attack using Crane Wing or lose the dodge bonus from Crane Wing because an attack missed you by 4 or less, you can make an attack of opportunity against the attacker after the attack misses.


1) I would take Dodge and get a +1 bonus to AC.
2) Fighting Defensively would make that -4 to attack and +3 to AC (including the bonus from Dodge).
3) 3 ranks of Acrobatics ups that to -4 attack and +4 to AC.
4) Crane Style would make that -2 to attack and +5 to AC.
5) Crane Wing would make that -2 attack and +9 to AC (against melee attacks).

So far I'm good. But then I see the wording in Crane Riposte 'whenever you deflect an opponent's attack using Crane Wing or lose the dodge bonus from Crane Wing because an attack missed you by 4 or less...'. For argument's sake, lets assume I never intend to use the Total Defense option. Where does that 'attack missed by 4 or less' thing come in? I don't see anything referencing it in any of the other style feats.

At the moment I don't see much value in taking Crane Riposte, other than the further reduction in attack penalty, but a nice bit of synergy here is that the Halfling-only feat 'Cautious Fighter' allows you to increase the bonus from fighting defensively by another +2. Coupled with the weapon trick Stylish Riposte I can really see that being valuable.

Selvaxri wrote:

If you're intending this to be a PFS character, take Lunge sooner. That bonus to range would help more than the ability to Sicken upon crit'ing.

also, why Sickening Critical?

My thought was that Sickening was a condition that I could inflict against which there was no save, and that it in turn would reduce the save chance against the Staggering and Stunning critical feats when they come online. Thinking about that though, so often if you land a crit your foe is already dead or nearly so, and feats would likely be better spent increasing my number of attacks via some of the options suggested above. I'm looking at that.

I appreciate all of the responses, some really good stuff here. A couple of quick questions - do you get all of the Swordmasters Flair items for the listed cost or is that a per item cost? And do you get all of the tricks associated with a particular weapon option or do you choose one specific trick each time you take the feat?

I'll definitely post more when I can get settled and can absorb everything.

claudekennilol wrote:
Mercurial wrote:
Regarding skills, is Intimidate worth pursuing considering that Menacing Swordplay eats up a swift action and I take a pretty hefty penalty for being small (-4 I believe)? It seems too good to pass up without a second look. Also, is Acrobatics a worthwhile investment for the character? He should be without an armor penalty for most of his career and there are some bonuses out there to be had...
I don't have much advice because I haven't played a swarshbuckler. But remember that Opportune Parry & Riposte uses up your swift action for the following round. So you may not have as many as those as you hope.

Yes, that's why I'm wondering about the usefulness of Menacing Swordplay... figure most of my swift/immediate actions will be used for Charmed Life or Parry & Riposte.

Hard to get out of the mindset of our homebrew rule which grants PC's a swift and an immediate action each round, and disconnect the two from one another.

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This is my first attempt at a Swashbuckler, but I am really intrigued by the class. The build below should be suitable for both PFS play and homebrew games, and I'd appreciate a general critique from those of you playing such a character (including missed legality issues with PFS) as well as any input on some of the specific questions below - thanks in advance!

Illyrio Silversliver
Halfling 17th level Inspired Blade / 2nd level Brawler / 1st level Urban Barbarian
FCB for Swashbucklers (+1/4 uses of Charmed Life per day)

STR - 7 (-2)
DEX - 18 (+4) [+1 @ 4th, 8th, 12th & 16th]
CON - 14 (+2)
INT - 14 (+2)
WIS - 7 (-2)
CHA - 16 (+3)

Racial Traits:
Fleet of Foot (30' movement; replaces Slow Speed & Sure-Footed)
Small sized (+1 to attack rolls, +1 to AC, +4 to Stealth checks & -1 to CMB and CMD)
Halfling Luck (+1 to saving throws)
Keen Senses (+2 Perception checks)
Skulker (+1 attack against foes who lose their Dexterity bonus to AC; replaces Fearless & Weapon Familiarity)

Fencer (+1 attack when making AoO's)
Irrepressible (use CHA modifier instead of WIS modifier on saves vs. Charm or Compulsion effects)

1st Sw1 - Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Finesse (Rapier only), Fencing Grace
2nd Sw2
3rd Sw3 - Combat Reflexes
4th Sw4 - Weapon Specialization: Rapier
5th Sw5 - Improved Initiative, Improved Critical: Rapier
6th Br1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, [Martial Flexibility 4/day]
7th Bn1 - Extra Rage, [Focused Rage, Crowd Control]
8th Sw6
9th Sw7 - Greater Weapon Focus: Rapier
10th Sw8 - Critical Focus
11th Sw9 - Sickening Critical
12th Sw10
13th Sw11 - Greater Weapon Specialization: Rapier, [Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge]
14th Sw12 - Lunge
15th Br2 - Staggering Critical, Critical Mastery
16th Sw13
17th Sw14 - Stunning Critical
18th Sw15
19th Sw16 - Extra Panache, Extra Rage
20th Sw17

Acrobatics* (1-20)
Diplomacy* (odd levels)
Escape Artist* (1-20)
Intimidate* (1-20)
Knowledge: Local* (even levels)
Knowledge: Nobility* (1)
Perception* (1-20)
Stealth (2-20)

* class skill


Should I swap out Skulker (+1 attack against foes who lose their Dexterity bonus to AC) with Underfoot Dodger (crowds are not difficult terrain, +5 Acrobatics checks to move through the spaces of larger foes)? I'm not very familiar with using Acrobatics in combat, and I don't know how often either ability would prove useful.

I absolutely love the Irrepressible trait for both flavor and mechanics, but taking into account that the Fencer trait would apply to Opportune Parry and Riposte, is there a better option out there that I'm overlooking? Would it be worth a Trait to make Stealth a class skill, considering that I'm basically maxing that out?

I dipped Brawler because I feel like being able to take any combat feat I qualify for 4/day is just too useful not to take advantage of. Whether its Deflect Arrows, Risky Striker, Blind-Fight Weapon Versatility, Combat Stamina - it really does open up a whole bag of tricks, and the dip doesn't disrupt my Fighter level progression for the purpose of Fighter-only feats.

I dipped Urban Rager because I like the versatility of Focused Rage, thought Crowd Control would serve the character well and couldn't turn down the mechanical advantage of increasing Dex AND having a Furious weapon become an available option. Initially I'll only have 12 rounds of Rage, but that should be good for at least two combats a day if not three, and its not often you see more than that, especially in PFS.

I'm strongly considering dipping yet another class - Cavalier - because it suits the character concept so well and might provide a better mechanical option than yet another level of Swashbuckler. At the moment I'm thinking Order of the Dragon for the benefits it would provide the group, or Order of the Flame that I might maximize my limited Challenge use with Glorious Challenge. The twofold question is, is it worth it to bump things like Rapier Training, Nimble, Charmed Life, etc. down another level and if so, when would be the ideal time to take it? Up until 15th level everything is carefully balanced to be able to take each feat at the very first moment it would be available (Brawler and Swashbuckler levels counting as Fighter levels), and after 15th level, is it really too late to be worried about the benefits Cavalier might get me? My thought was to take Seize the Moment as my teamwork feat (Tactician) and really have fun with my criticals, but again, that's just 1 use per day.

Any better feat options out there than Lunge at 14th level? I thought about Risky Striker, but figured I could take via Martial Flexibility as needed. I considered trying to work up the Spring Attack tree or the Dazzling Display tree, but nothing seemed to fit with the rest of what I was trying to do. I take it that since Power Attack and Piranha Strike are both out, there are no other solid damage boosting options out there? Alternatively, I could take Combat Expertise, opening up a variety of additional feats for Martial Flexibility... or would Crane Style be worth pursuing in this build?

Regarding skills, is Intimidate worth pursuing considering that Menacing Swordplay eats up a swift action and I take a pretty hefty penalty for being small (-4 I believe)? It seems too good to pass up without a second look. Also, is Acrobatics a worthwhile investment for the character? He should be without an armor penalty for most of his career and there are some bonuses out there to be had...

When it comes to gear I'm looking at the usual - mithril chain shirt, cloak of resistance, belt of dexterity, headband of charisma, eventually winged boots, etc. I'm planning on taking a Furious weapon as soon as I am able, but that leaves me wondering whether or not the Answering quality is worth pursuing as well. It seems you get diminishing returns as the weapon improves (doesn't stack with additional enhancement bonuses or even Furious) and if you have anything beyond a +1 Answering weapon you're wasting your coin. Sound right? I assume Swordmaster's Flair comes as a set of four with the initial 2,500 gp cost and are not calculated separately? If there are any other ideally suited magic items that I've overlooked, please let me know.

I know I've dumped a ton of stuff in here, and if you've gotten this far you already have my thanks. Any advice or (helpful) criticism would be most welcome.

With the release of so many new classes with similar sounding abilities, things have suddenly gotten very nuanced with regards to what counts as what (such as Swasbuckler Weapon Training not counting for Gloves of Dueling). I'm trying to find out - definitively, if possible, for the purposes of PFS - if the Focused Rage class feature of the Barbarian archetype Urban Barbarian qualifies as Rage for the purposes of using a weapon with the Furious quality.

Here is the text of the entries as I have them:

This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons. A furious weapon serves as a focus for its wielder’s anger. When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon’s enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal. If the wielder has a rage power that gives a skill bonus while raging (such as raging climber, raging leaper, or raging swimmer), the wielder gains an enhancement bonus to that skill whenever the weapon is wielded or held in her hand, even when she is not raging. This bonus is equal to the enhancement bonus of the weapon (and also includes the +2 if the wielder is raging).

Controlled Rage (Ex):
When an urban barbarian rages, instead of making a normal rage she may apply a +4 morale bonus to her Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This bonus increases to +6 when she gains greater rage and +8 when she gains mighty rage. She may apply the full bonus to one ability score or may split the bonus between several scores in increments of +2. When using a controlled rage, an urban barbarian gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Intelligence-, Dexterity-, and Charisma-based skills. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage.

The final line seems to settle it for me, but I'm looking for some sort of quasi-official confirmation, or at least a good argument should I be challenged on it.

Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the clarification, guys. They sure do make things complicated, don't they?

If an arcane spell is chosen as a Ki power, does that fulfill the casting requirement for Arcane Archer?

Mogloth wrote:
Check out the stuff from Legendary Games. They have a slew of mythic "Righteous Crusade" plug ins. I have used several of them. Made by some of the same people who created Wrath.

Thanks for the reply!

I did a quick search and found Road to War: The Equinox Crown, which looks interesting, and then everything else was collections of stat blocks for NPC's or new magic items, nothing else with that might be used as a supplemental adventure or side quest. Is that about it on that front?

I'm revisiting WotR and trying to pre-plan out the full campaign. Ignoring the Mythic rule set (as I intend to), are there any other modules, scenarios or adventures out there either set in the Worldwound or appropriate to the setting that comes highly recommended?

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

The Guy With A Face wrote:
Two of the bigger concerns have been trying to figure out a way to get Standard action summoning and/or spontaneous casting of divine Summoning spells.
The Sacred Summons feat lets you summon creatures that match your aura's alignment as a standard action. Since you're a cleric you have an aura.

I've always found Sacred Summons to be a bit confusing, but as I understand it, the creature's type or subtype has to match your aura, not just their alignment... meaning that if I'm Lawful Good, I can use the feat to summon Archons (who possess both the Lawful and Good subtypes) but not Angels or Devas (who possess only the Good subtype)... to summon Angels and Devas as a standard action with the feat, I'd have to be Neutral Good (I think), but then I wouldn't be able to get Archons.

As a character I'm probably going to run as Chaotic Neutral, I don't know how many options that leaves for me.

I've been looking for the opportunity to play this particular concept for a while, and it appears that both Hell's Vengeance and/or Strange Aeons might offer me that chance... the concept revolves around a dwarf whom was captured by Aboleths deep, deep below the Earth and was kept as a slave, his sanity being driven to the brink. When he escaped he fled as fast and as far as he could in the one direction he knew would get him away - up, towards the surface... and when he finally emerged on a beautiful winter's night and got his first look at the surface world, the sight that greeted him was the same infinite blackness, the same... nothing, forever... that had haunted his dreams deep below. It was enough to break his mind. Thereafter he's become convinced of his (and everyone's) eventual doom and has become an occasionally muttering, occasionally ravening lunatic, but one from whom the genuine insight of fools and children will occasionally slip free. There are a lot of different directions to go from there, but that's the general concept.

This is what I want him to be able to do:

To take the Domain of Madness and get the maximum benefit from the highly versatile Visions of Madness domain power.

To specialize in summoning creatures as his primary offensive and defensive options (what he considers to be his maddened dreams given form).

Focus on eventually using Planeshift as a weapon, effectively banishing foes into the nothingness of the Void that haunts.

To be able to role-play his rantings as something mechanically effective.

My first thought would be to make him a Cleric of Azathoth, prophesying his eventual arrival as a sort of nihilistic herald of doom. Make him an Evangelist (the archetype that grants Bardic Performance), take the Madness Domain, Magical Lineage for Planeshift and a feat breakdown that looks something like this:

1st - Spell Focus: Conjuration
3rd - Augment Summoning
5th - Summon Neutral Monster
7th - Versatile Summoning
9th - Reach Spell
11th - Piercing Spell
13th - Quicken Spell
15th - Spell Perfection: Planeshift
17th - Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration

Obviously, feats are at a premium, but keep in mind, I'm not trying to make this guy a game-breaker, just trying to make him as effective as possible within the core concept.

Now, looking at some other options, I'm starting to wonder about whether I could make for a better fit as an Inquisitor, using the Monster Tactician archetype or possibly even as a Herald Caller, though I'd lose the Domain that ties all of this together. Two of the bigger concerns have been trying to figure out a way to get Standard action summoning and/or spontaneous casting of divine Summoning spells.

Any thoughts would be welcome, any advice much appreciated.

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I'm very appreciative of everyone's input thus far - it seems to me that I really need to include the build so that my concerns are easier to see and some of the advice I'm being offered better addressed.

Dwarven 1st level Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer) / 11th level Alchemist (Lamplighter)

Attributes: (after racial modifiers)
STR - 14
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 15 (+1 @ 4th, 8th & 12th)
WIS - 16
CHA - 5

Glory of Old

Feats & Talents:
1st - Steel Soul
3rd - Weapon Focus: Heavy Pick
4th - Talent: Expanded Inspiration (Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive)
5th - Extra Talent: Quick Study
6th - Talent: Underworld Inspiration (Bluff, Disable Device, Intimidate, Sleight of Hand)
7th - Extra Talent: Inspirational Expertise
8th - Sickening Offensive
9th - Extra Talent: Alchemist Discovery?
10th - Talent: Combat Inspiration
11th - Extra Talent: Alchemist Discovery?
12th - Talent: Alchemist Discovery?

Inquisitor Abilities:
Conversion Inquisition (apply Wisdom instead of Charisma to Bluff, Diplomacy & Intimidate checks)
Monster Lore (add Wisdom modifier to Knowledge checks when identifying foes)
Stern Gaze (+1 to Intimidate & Sense Motive checks)
Studied Target (move action; gain +1 to Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive & Survival checks as well as +1 attack & damage rolls against target until target is dead or changed)

[That's an awful lot for a one level dip, plus spells and save bump]

Investigator Abilities:
2nd - Alchemy, Inspiration Pool, Lamplighter
3rd - Alchemical Illumination
4th - Ready for the Revelation (add Inspiration to Initiative, use Intelligence for Initiative)
5th - Studied Combat & Studied Strike, Swift Alchemy

I do delay Studied Combat for a level, but I get it at the exact same time as Quick Study and in the meantime, starting at 1st level I get Studied Target which in time will stack, so that more than makes up for the delay in my opinion.

What I don't know enough about are the Alchemical options and if I should make an effort to pursue them sooner - mutagens, with a cursory glance, seem to be a superb combat option.

Here is a snapshot of the character at 2nd & 6th level with basic gear and no spells active:

Dwarven 1st level Sanctified Slayer / 1st level Lamplighter

STR - 14, DEX - 14, CON - 14, INT - 15, WIS - 16, CHA - 5
HP 17, AC 20, Init +4, Fort +4, Reflex +4, Will +7 (+3 saves vs. Poison, +5 save vs. spells & SLA's)
Attack (War Pick): +4, 1d6+3, Crit. 20, x4

Appraise +6, +8 involving precious metals or gemstones
Bluff +9
Craft: Alchemy +7
Diplomacy +10
Disable Device +7
Intimidate +9
Knowledge: Dungeoneering +6(+1d6), +9(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Local +6(+1d6), +9(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Nature +6(+1d6), +9(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Religion +6(+1d6), +9(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Perception +8, +9 when detecting traps)
Sense Motive +9
Spellcraft +6

Dwarven 1st level Sanctified Slayer / 5th level Lamplighter

STR - 14, DEX - 14, CON - 14, INT - 16, WIS - 18, CHA - 5
HP 43, AC 22, Init +5(+1d6), Fort +6, Reflex +7, Will +11 (+3 saves vs. Poison, +5 save vs. spells & SLA's)
Attack (War Pick): +10, 2d6+6, Crit. 19+, x4

Appraise +7, +9 involving precious metals or gemstones
Bluff +14(+1d6)
Craft: Alchemy +8
Diplomacy +15(+1d6)
Disable Device +12(+1d6)
Escape Artist +6
Heal +8(+1d6)
Intimidate +13(+1d6)
Knowledge: Arcana +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Dungeoneering +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Local +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Nature +9(+1d6),+13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Planes +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Religion +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Linguistics +7(+1d6)
Perception +13(+1d6), +15(+1d6) when detecting traps
Sense Motive +14(+1d6)
Spellcraft +8(+1d6)

I'm actually really happy with my skill spread as it is, though obviously there will be occasional tinkering, and that's what I want the strength of the character to be (little things like Studied Target or Guidance aren't even included above), and I'm fine with my defenses for a non-frontliner - who doesn't love a +11 save vs. Enchantments at 2nd level? What I'm looking for from those of you more experienced with Investigators and Alchemists are what alchemical options I should pursue and when and how they might synergize with the existing character, as well as what changes I might have to make to accommodate them without unraveling the whole thing. Weapon Focus seems like an early feat I could part with if necessary, but I was thinking Deific Obediance/Irori might start drifting into overkill territory. Also, is there anything I've included which looks like it might not be PFS legal (I can never keep track of all the exceptions & eratta).

Any special gear I should be especially looking at? A Keen Warpick and the usual 'Big 6' are all I'm thinking of right now.

Thanks again for all of your help and advice.

ChaosTicket wrote:

Besides high skills, what are you trying to do such as summon or buff others?

What area of skills are you interested in, such as Charisma skills?

Do you want only Investigator and Inquisitor suggestions?

That's one of the things I'm trying to figure out... from what I've been able to put together, he'll have some solid buffs and de-buffs (Blistering Invective seems ideal for him) and won't be useless in combat... I suppose once Skills have all been addressed, I'd like to be versatile enough to fill in wherever needed. I'm trying to learn about Alchemical options right now, to see what doors that might open up for me.

Right now he has really high Knowledge skills, as well as Perception, Sense Motive and the like to go along with the Social skills. I suppose I should post the build, so people can see what I'm working with?

andreww wrote:

Why would you want Wisdom to social skills when you can convert them to Int using various traits.

Clever Wordplay covers any charisma skill
Student of Philosophy covers Diplomacy and Bluff
Bruising Intellect covers Intimidate

Additional Traits is your friend or you could go Skill Focus/Orator and run all three main social skills from Linguistics.

Boosting your Int will give you far more benefit as an Investigator in the long run and give you more skill points to play with.

Also as far as Investigators go Empiricist is your friend, it is one of the few archetypes really worth taking.

Other important skills are keyed off of Wisdom and then there's Will saves and the fact that Dwarves get bonuses to Wisdom... and the Monster Lore class feature is pretty huge. I'm planning on using my limited traits and feats for other things.

I'll definitely check out the Empiricist - right now I'm kind of liking the look of Lamplighter.

As designed right now, the character will have a 16 Wisdom and an 18 Intelligence before gear, so I'm not neglecting either.

I'm looking at taking a 1-level dip into the Sacred Slayer Inquisitor for Studied Target, Conversion Inquisition for Wisdom to Diplomacy, Intimidate & Bluff and Monster Lore... then going all-in on the Investigator for everything else.

I'm trying to decide if a 2nd level of Inquisitor is worth it (for Cunning Initiative, primarily), and am unsure of what restriction pitfalls I might run into. Also, in order to remain relevant in combat at later levels, what Alchemical avenues should I pursue that are open? Any particular Investigator archetypes that seem particularly well suited to this concept?

Planning on going Dwarf with Steel Soul and Glory of Old btw.

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Qhorrin, Half-Elven 2nd level Divine Hunter / 15th level Battle Oracle (Powerless Prophecy Curse)

Daenar, Human 2nd level Unbreakable Fighter / 15th level Invulnerable Rager

Llyra, Kitsune 17th level Serpentine Sorcerer

Gr'rub, Goblin 2nd level Master of Many Styles / 15th level Brawler

Really going well so far... best part about it has been the character backgrounds and the way they tie in to the overall story.

tonyz wrote:

A good out-of-combat first level wizard spell? Perhaps unseen servant or disguise self. I assume an enchantment-focused sorceror already has charm person available with better save DCs than you are likely to.

Gravity bow is good if you mostly stand back and plink at the enemy.

Generally speaking, I expect to open combat with a buff spell, attack at range and then help heal up afterwards. Generally, though the character was deliberately built to be pretty versatile.

Given that, I think Gravity Bow might be the way I go, though up til now that 'opener' as been reserved for Divine Favor (Fate's Favored trait to go along with being a Cayden Cailean worshipper).

tonyz wrote:

What spells do you already have from your oracle class? Don't take anything that you can already do.

Enlarge person is a great spell to support tanks -- mostly because Large creatures have greater reach, the actual damage increase is usually marginal.

I love silent image as it's a really handy utility spell -- cover for ambushes, decoration for parties, illusionary doubles to make the enemy waste attacks, send an illusion down a trapped corridor and see if the enemy follows, etc., etc., etc.

Gravity bow isn't a bad spell for a ranged support character, and vanish can be a useful short-term help-the-party, conceal-the-scout, or protect-a-friend spell. I agree that none of the others sound really useful to you unless there's something I'm missing.

At this point, these are the spells I know (keep in mind that the Wizard spell will also be spontaneously cast):

0 level - Detect Magic, Enhanced Diplomacy, Guidance, Light, Mending, Resistance
1st - Cure Light Wounds, Divine Favor, Know the Enemy, Remove Sickness, Read Magic*
2nd - Cure Moderate Wounds, Lesser Restoration, (1st level Wizard spell)*

The character uses both a reach weapon (Fauchard) and a Composite Bow. I was looking at the other more utilitarian spells to provide some out-of-combat versatility as it seems we usually have combat locked down pretty tight. I like Silent Image too but our Sorcerer already has it... FWIW, next level I'll be taking Communal Protection vs. Evil.

Often times I look at combat spells as if they were being cast on the 1st round of combat rather than in preparation ahead of time, and ask myself 'does this give me a better advantage' than what else I might normally do with a standard action?

Since the character is a Battle Oracle with the Powerless Prophecy curse (Staggered first round of combat), I'm thinking Gravity Bow might be the way to go.

Alright, technically a 2nd level Paladin (Divine Hunter) / 4th level Oracle (Ancient Lore Keeper), but the question remains the same.

In a party with two very tanky martials and an enchantment-focused Sorcerer. I'm the group's sole source of healing and have solid melee and ranged ability as well, just to fill in as needed. I started looking at the list of potentials and I just couldn't seem narrow it down between useful and combat-oriented spells...

Color Spray
Enlarge Person
Feather Fall
Floating Disk
Gravity Bow
Ray of Enfeeblement
Ray of Sickening
Silent Image
Unseen Servant
(already have Protection vs. Evil)

I tend to lean away from spells that require saving throws, simply because the build isn't designed to produce high DC's... though the spell will technically count as a 2nd level spell.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Ask the DM if he will let Spiritual weapon work off your CHA instead of Wisdom.

I'm sure that he will. Its kind of common sense since the Oracle is a Charisma-based caster.

I'm starting to think a trip build might be a legit option as well. As a Half-Elf I can use Ancestral Arms to qualify for a Fauchard, and I think I can talk my GM into allowing me to take the Revelation Weapon Mastery a second time for a different weapon. Something like this (again, this is a two level dip in Divine Hunter and then leveling as a Battle Oracle with the Powerless Prophecy curse):
Feats & Revelations:
(Deadly Aim, Power Attack and Combat Expertise for free)
1st - Rapid Shot
1st - Precise Shot
1st - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Fauchard
3rd - [Weapon Mastery: Bow]
3rd - Extra Revelation [Weapon Mastery: Fauchard]
3rd - Weapon Focus: Bow*
3rd - Weapon Focus: Fauchard*
5th - [Maneuver Mastery: Trip]
5th - Combat Reflexes
7th - Extra Revelation [Battlefield Clarity]
9th - [War Sight]
9th - Multishot
9th - Improved Trip*
10th - Improved Critical: Bow*
10th - Improved Critical: Fauchard*
11th - Divine Interference
13th - [Iron Skin]
13th - Greater Trip*
13th - Tripping Strike
14th - Greater Weapon Focus: Bow*
14th - Greater Weapon Focus: Fauchard*
15th - Clustered Shots
17th - [Surprising Charge]
17th - Quicken Spell

[ ] - Revelation
* feat gained from Revelation

Ranged attacks, melee attacks, trip attacks, buff spells... am I developing good versatility or trying to do too much?

Got a group that includes a couple of very tanky melee types and an Enchantment-focused Sorcerer... I was thinking that we needed a decent ranged threat who could also handle some healing and buffing responsibilities. After talking it over with my GM, he agreed to give me access to the Ancient Lore Keeper Oracle as a Half-Elf (a little RP/backstory stuff did the trick), but I've heard that ranged Oracles aren't as effective as one might hope, particularly due to BAB & feat limitations. Fortunately our GM grants Power Attack, Deadly Aim and Combat Expertise to anyone who meets the pre-requisites and has done away with Point Blank Shot, so that helps a little.

What I'm looking at now is taking a couple levels of the Divine Hunter Paladin archetype and then going into the Lore Keeper Oracle, selecting Battle as my mystery and Powerless Prophecy as my curse. The general plan is to open combat with buffs, supporting combat with ranged attacks and then cleaning up afterwards with healing spells, with some Knowledge & Social skills to help out outside of combat. I'd really appreciate any thoughts anyone could offer with regards to Revelations and Feat selections and anything else I might not have considered - thanks in advance!

Taenia wrote:
Between Barkskin (extended with a rod you make), Huge Air Elemental Form, Wis to AC you can have a great AC, plus a very high Sense Motive check for attacks that roll high or those annoying touch spells. You can pick up huge creatures (In PFS I have juggled Hill Giants, Stone Golems, Girallons and lots of humanoids, swarms and oozes).

An air elemental with skin made of bark?


First off, I very much appreciate the responses. A couple of quick clarifications:

The Aasimar twins together will have solid ranged options - battle dance + high dex + arcane strike + various other potential buffs do indeed add up. I just meant to say that we didn't have the sort of ranged threat that a dedicated archer or blaster-type might offer and wasn't sure if that would be a big detriment or not.

Skill-wise the way we're kind of looking at things is the Dervishes will have effectively maxed out Perception, Stealth, Acrobatics and (via Versatile Performance) Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Bluff and Intimidate, all fairly soon. They'll also have a touch of Knowledge: Religion and Escape Artist.

The Oracle will have Healing and a pretty diverse smattering of Knowledges while the Summoner will have Knowledge: Planes for certain.

Apart from trap-finding, what skills would we be lacking that the AP might require?

I'll look into the Player's Guide. Perhaps one twin would focus on Perception with Trap-Finding and the other on Disable Device? The two plan on serving as the 'scouts' of the group already.

EDIT: Shaman, I really appreciate the effort put into that lengthy and informative response, but the players are in love with the idea of playing identical builds intended to be complimentary. The Halfling player actually seriously considered running an Archeologist (with a dip in Halfling Opportunist) but felt that the group lacked any sort of legitimate 'tank' and has always wanted to run a Summoner type.

First off, I know there is no one who technically has trap finding. That's a concern and one we're trying to figure out how to address, but no one wants to have their characters dictated by something like that.

The group looks like this:

Human Oracle (Ancestor) whom intends to take some levels of Living Monolith, one at least.
Plans to use a reach weapon and serve as a second liner combatant and combat support.

Aasimar Dawnflower Dervish
Aasimar Dawnflower Dervish
Twins who grew up fighting together. Plan is for both to take Paired Opportunist and Broken Wing Gambit to reflect that, not sure if they'll be better off dipping into something to make that easier - maybe a level of Cavalier/Order of the Flame?

Halfling Summoner
Standard Summoner, eidolon takes the form of a giant multi-tailed scorpion that he rides.

Now the group lacks a particularly dangerous ranged threat (as well as the aforementioned trap finding issues), but all are casters and all are competent combatants and we feel like it'd be pretty strong against most challenges both in and out of combat.

Arachnofiend wrote:
This one, specifically. You get Dervish Dance as a bonus feat at first level so you get to be pure dex right out of the box.

Made an Aasimar Dawnflower Dervish for Wrath and it was absolutely one of my favorite characters ever.

Thaago wrote:

In general it looks solid.

I think Fly or Overland Flight should make it onto the list - just really useful. I also like invisibility rather than Bull's Strength for higher levels as it doesn't stack with enhancement items on your AC - maybe bull's strength at first, then swap it out for invisibility at 6 or 8 as a free retraining.

For buffing your animal companion, Enlarge Person works because of Share Spells. The reach and bonus to combat maneuvers is nice. Later on Animal Growth is an excellent upgrade that lets animals do surprising amount of damage.

I'm personally not a fan of Hold Person and Hold Monster as they offer a save every round - and I just don't like SoD's. You do get a +1 to their DC's though, so that helps.

[edit] ninja'd! Yup, any spell with a target of "you" can be cast. So Form of the Dragon at high levels is on for animal companions as well.

Thanks for the comments!

I keep thinking not to worry about Flight because of the bloodline abilities, but they won't come online until 15th which makes them next to useless in PFS.

I doubt I'll spend much money on items for my AC apart from getting the nicest Amulet of Mighty fists that I can afford... but I'll look at some of the other options.

Animal Growth is pretty amazing, I've never looked at it before - if I invest in it, should I also use a later spell slot for Summon Monster, with an eye towards using the two together (when summoning animals, of course)? Perhaps with that 6th level spell slot at level 12 that I forgot to include..? Or would that slot be better used for something like Transformation to really pile on the bonuses?

Remember that Kitsune get +1 to Enchantment DC's every four levels due to their Sorcerer FCB in addition to the racial bonus at 1st level. I'm definitely planning on taking advantage of that!

Duriel_Jones wrote:

You will really want Enlarge person for your animal companion. If you can't fit it into your spells known I would suggest a Page of spell knowledge, it's just that good. A large spinosaurus at levels 1-5 is something to awesome to miss out on.

I would also recommend looking at the Razmiran priest archetype as well. You only give up some bloodline spells for a huge increase in versatility.

So Enlarge Person will in fact work on my AC? this is the first time I'm playing one and the Share Spells ability specifically said spells with a target of personal, so I wasn't sure...

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This is for a PFS character, a Kitsune Wildblooded Sorcerer (Sylvan) who will have a full animal companion and intends to use spells as buffs for her party and AC and for enchantments. I'm just posting the final level 12 spell choices to save space - there will have been some swap outs as the character levels up and some spells become more or less effective.
12th level spells & abilities
Dancing Lights 3/day
Woodland Stride at will
Greater Invisibility 12 rounds/day
Spells per day (0 – unlimited, 1st – 8, 2nd – 8, 3rd – 7, 4th – 7, 5th – 6, 6th – 4)

Spells Known:
0 level
Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance

1st level
Charm Person, Entangle*, Featherfall, Mage Armor, Obscuring Mist, Silent Image

2nd level
Bull’s Strength, Glitterdust, Hideous Laughter*, Mirror Image, Protection vs. Evil – Communal, Scorching Ray

3rd level
Deep Slumber*, Displacement, Haste, Hold Person, Resist Energy - Communal

4th level
Enervation, Poison*, Emergency Force Shield, Stoneskin

5th level
Hold Monster, Teleport, Tree Stride*

* Bloodline spells

Is there anything I'm lacking to fill my role or anything I haven't considered? Do I have too much of anything? My goal will be to use my animal companion (probably one of the big ones, like Allosaurus or Spinosuarus) to be my 'stand in' in combat, either protecting me or more often providing a little more melee firepower for the group while I try to lock down the biggest threats. I can't really do anything about some of the subpar bloodline spells, but they're not all bad.

I figure I'll be able to do the following things:

Solo buffs (primarily for Animal Companion):
Mage Armor, Bull's Strength, Displacement, Stoneskin

Group buffs:
Communal Protection vs. Evil, Communal Resist Energy, Haste

Solo control spells:
Charm Person, Hideous Laughter, Deep Slumber, Hold Person, Hold Monster

Battlefield control spells:
Entangle, Glitterdust

Offensive spells:
Scorching Ray, Enervation, Poison

Defensive spells:
Obscuring Mist, Mirror Image, Emergency Force Shield

Utility spells:
Featherfall, Silent Image, Tree Stride, Teleport

I'm also planning on taking Eldritch Heritage at 7th level and Improved Familiar at 9th, probably sticking with the Fey theme and going with a Faerie Dragon so I can add its utility to my own. Is that a good or a bad idea? Also, would 'Share Spells' allow Enlarge Person to be cast on an Animal Companion? And would Grease be a better choice than Obscuring Mist, considering that I'll be taking it around 6th level?

Kazaan wrote:


My search yielded some very old threads so I figured I'd ask here - would a Half-Orc be able to select from either the Orc, Half-Orc or Human FCB at each level? Presumably the same answer would apply to Half-Elves selecting the Elf, Half-Elf or Human FCB as well...

Benefit: You gain +3 hit points. For every Hit Die you possess beyond 3, you gain an additional +1 hit point. If you have more than 3 Hit Dice, you gain +1 hit points whenever you gain a Hit Die (such as when you gain a level).

If I receive Toughness at 6th level, do I gain 6 hit points, 3 hit points and then 1 for each level thereafter or none until I level up again?

Third Mind wrote:

1st question - Is it even a good idea?

2nd question - Which class would you use? I've read that Holy Tactician Paladins might be best, but Cavalier seems to offer more overall group support with other abilities.

3rd question - Which teamwork feats do you think might be best overall?

4th question - What would be the best mass (i.e. entire group) support build so that I may compare and see which I like a bit better?

Any suggestions or answers would be greatly appreciated.

In our Wrath of the Righteous run, we had two twins who were Aasimar Dawnflower Dervishes and ardent followers of Sarenrae. They took a couple of levels of Lore Warden for teamwork feats and ended up with Broken Wing Gambit and Paired Opportunists early, eventually taking Seize the Moment later. Fighting side by side they were devastating - whenever someone attacked one they both got AoO's off, whenever one of them landed a crit (which was often with a threat on 15+), the other got an AoO. It chained really well and made for a great concept of two quick and agile warriors whom had grown up fighting together.

Ryzoken wrote:
Mercurial wrote:
Dawnflower Dervish. Let me know if you're interested in a build.
I am interested in your build.

Short version:

Aasimar Musetouched Dawnflower Dervish
Extra skill rank at 1st & 2nd level, FCB at levels 3-12 to improve Inspire Courage

STR - 13 (+1 @ 12th level)
DEX - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 @ 4th & 8th level)
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 10
CHA - 12 (+2 racial bonus)

1st - Dervish Dance
1st - Arcane Strike
3rd - Weapon Focus
5th - Power Attack
7th - Improved Initiative
9th - Lunge
11th - Discordant Voice

The accelerated Battle Dance and various combine to make you devastating in melee and strong at range. You'll take spells that buff, cure and have utility (rather than spells that require saves), and with Versatile Performance you'll have the best social skills in the game. Its not a complicated character and its not a hard character to play but the versatility it offers should give you plenty of opportunities to grow.

At 1st level, with nothing more than a Masterwork Scimitar, you'll be +7 attack & deal 1d6+7 damage with a high crit chance. At 4th level, with just Allegro and a +1 Scimitar, you'll get two attacks per round at +13 (hitting the average CR 4 with a 4 or better) and dealing 1d6+10 each. Just to put things in perspective.

Salarain wrote:

Hello Gamers,

I have a question about choosing the right class build for PFS.

I'm already running a tiefling ranger, and a Half elf cleric. I am trying to get one built before the assimars are locked out.

Any help Please

Thank you

Dawnflower Dervish. I played one through Wrath of the Righteous and I'm starting my first PFS one thing weekend. Highly versatile and devastatingly effective from level 1. Let me know if you're interested in a build.


One of the things I try to take into account (and all that formula may have) is how likely I am to hit an equivalent level foe. If my attack bonus is so high that it's all but guaranteed, PA seems a better choice than if I'm struggling to hit. In this case I find a properly built DD to have a well above average chance to hit, especially once I start including magical gear.

Victor Zajic wrote:

Could you put the spoiler for Wrath of the Righteous plot behind a spoiler button please?

Also, having identicle builds seems like it would get boring after a while. You could easily make two different characters who benefit from the teamwork feats though. Maybe one's a Bard and one is an inquisitor or cleric.

I don't think that's a spoiler, just something that happened in our game - our GM rewrites tons of stuff in the AP's. And I can't change it now anyway. :(

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