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There is one other reason for a human cleric: favored class bonus: +1/2 /level to penetrate outsider SR.
I totally missed this - talk about the perfect solution! I figure I'll take the bonus levels 6-15 for +10, taking bonus hit points levels 1-5 and 16-20. Persistent Spell will take the place of Piercing Spell.
I'm really loving how this character has evolved - thank you everyone for your helpful advice.
The Summons won't be an issue - the two abilities are more like a continuous aura than a one-shot casting.
Yeah, Piercing won't be doubled but it fills the 3 meta pre-req and addresses a concern regarding Spell Resistance (which I personally hate and find wholly unnecessary to the game).
Reach Spell also lets you use various touch based clerical magic far more offensively. Reach Plane Shift is extremely potent as a will based save or die, especially good against huge brute type monsters that you never want to get close to.
I have to admit that the idea of using Plane Shift as an offensive spell is really intriguing, and it fits in so well with the mechanics and theme of a character already built around summoning extra-planar creatures.
I talked to the person who would be running the Arcane Duelist, and he's been thinking about running an Archeologist instead which has in turn gotten me thinking about running an Evangelist. I started playing around with it and this is what I came up with, using a Human...
Human 20th level Evangelist (Glory/Heroism)
Attributes: (20 point buy)
With swift action self-healing Paladins and summoned creatures as front-liners, I think healing can be less of a focus than I initially made it out to be. I worry a little about Spell Resistance for targeted spells, hence the Piercing Spell choice. Feats are still very tight, but I think this will make for a much more effective character for the party - the Heroism aura will stack with the Evangelist's Inspire Courage, and I'll focus spell selection on utility-type stuff, relying on between-combat Channels and end-of-day spontaneous spells to supplement our healing.
Figure at 8th level I'll be able to activate the Heroism Aura (+2 Attack, +2 saves) as a swift action, Inspire Courage (+2 Attack, +2 Damage) as a move action and then summon an Augmented Archon as a standard action just to open combat, and unlike a buff like Haste, each of those buffs should work continuously even if I summon additional creatures as needed.
(EDIT: Darn - I edited a previous post rather than making a new one. I had mentioned my concern about making a character who relied on spells targeting DC's when they neither optimized to overcome saves or Spell Resistance.)
How does this look?
Attributes: (20 point buy)
Equipment (at 7th level):
Magda Luckbender wrote:
I appreciate that advice and all of the advice that has been offered - there are a number of options I hadn't considered or even realized were available and some of my misconceptions were cleared away.
I understand what you're saying about being a competent melee threat and I initially planned on doing just that, but unfortunately the character I want to build has more demands than simple summoning. I want her to be an effective channeler, which means charisma. I want her to have a degree of survivability which, in my book, means a bit of Constitution and a bit of Dexterity... and I want her to have more than two skill ranks per level which means Intelligence. I wouldn't officially call the character 'MAD', but it does seem that Strength is the least needed attribute for what I hope to accomplish, and at the end of the day it seems that of my options each combat round - domain abilities, spells, channeling and so forth - making a meager melee swipe would probably be the least effective, especially if it put me directly in harm's way.
I think this is the character build I've finally settled on - thanks again to everyone for their advice.
Aasimar 20th level Cleric (Healing - Restoration & Glory - Heroism)
Attributes: (20 point buy)
Equipment (at 7th level):
It seemed a waste not to take at least one 'face' skill with such a high Charisma and Diplomacy suited the character concept. She's also the only member of the party with a high Wisdom and the only member with darkvision, so Perception seemed like a good choice to focus on, especially for one who is consumed with discovering the truth about things. As someone raised by the church and 'blessed' with divine outsider aid when she calls for it, the knowledge choices made sense as well. She's supposed to be educated, perceptive and an honored representative of her church, but at the same time has led a fairly cloistered and sheltered lifestyle up to this point, which would explain the lack of effective combat experience. In our campaign world Aasimars are exceedingly rare, and her backstory is something of a wonder, where lantern archons would appear from time to time in her presence when she was a child, at prayer, at play or even watching over her while she slept. It made her something of a celebrity as well as a mystery in the church, but her recent decision to leave that life behind in pursuit of a greater calling - one that has been deemed politically inappropriate - has many both concerned and frustrated.
The character is being built for a Slumbering Tsar campaign, and is using a hook suggested in the beginning of the adventure - discovered letters sent back to the Church of Muir prove that the Paladin Lord Bishu had been left behind to occupy the city and had never been heard from again. She has long suspected that her birth ancestry was tied to the Army of Light and that epic battle, she's become somewhat obsessed over discovering what happened to those forces left behind. The two Paladins in the party - both considered 'troublemakers' within their order, were the only ones willing to accompany her on this fool's errand which is destined to bring to light certain chapters of the Church's history they would prefer be forgotten.
Again, thanks everyone for their advice.
Just to clarify, I'm all for Sacred Summons despite its limitations, especially in the case of a LG cleric with a LG deity like Mercurial's talking about. The expanded list for SGM is nice, but doesn't really come into its own until later levels, and the diehard feat for a summoned monster is kind of pointless. So, for me yes on Sacred Summons, but wait on Summon Good Monster.
I do wish the alignment options were more evenly distributed - Summon Good Monsters seems to be a deliberate 'make-up' for the fact that Lawful Evil Devils seem to populate every summons list.
My husband put together twenty-something different themed summoning lists I- IX, for characters intended to be built with a particular concept in mind (Vermin, Fire-based creatures, Undead, Animals, etc.) and the times we've tried them they've worked really, really well.
Just wanted to point out that everything summoned by Summon Good Monster is not going to benefit from Sacred Summons, and I would actually dump that feat all things considered as who cares if something that's only going to be around for a few rounds stabilizes or not? Sacred Summons only works on creatures whose alignment subtype exactly matches your divine aura, so your run of the mill celestial critter is still going to take a full round action to summon.
This is technically true, but having seen a Master Summoner in action, it simply can't be discounted the value of getting that Standard action Summons into play... and Summon Good Monster expands the LG Archons option enough to make it viable. In my particular case (Lawful Good), the options that qualify for Sacred Summons at each level would be:
(Sacred Summons gained at 5th level)
All in all that seems worth it to me.
Of course - don't know how I missed that. Ah well, knew it was a little too good to be true. I'll have to look at some different metamagic options if I go that route.
...with Domains, Channeling and better saves no less.
Yes, but couldn't I - for instance - use Spell Perfection to cast a Quickened Monster Summoning IX to summon a Trumpet Archon (taking advantage of Sacred Summons) and then immediately follow that up using Spell Perfection to cast a Maximized Monster Summoning IX to bring in an additional six Shield Archons, all benefitting from double Augment Summoning?
With that thought in mind, and the advice you've all offered, here's what I'm thinking now (bowing to social convention and going straight Human for the extra feat AND the bonus skill ranks so that I can pay for Spellcraft):
1st - Spell Focus: Conjuration
We had all kind of agreed on the Fey Foundling thing as being a hallmark of the religious order of Knights (Paladins) and Clerics, but its not set in stone and you're right about being feat-starved. Perhaps we'll make it only Paladins who take the feat... you're also probably right about not needing combat healing at all, though we thought the 'layered' healing would help against some of the more difficult threats we face. It does seem like I'd be of greater use summoning than healing, if past experiences are any guide.
Have you looked at the Evangelist archetype for clerics? It is pretty good for summoning. You only get one domain, but get a few bardic performances instead that help buff.
I actually did at first, but once we added a Bard the need for it kind of went out the window. The only Cleric our group has ever run before this was a crazy dwarf who ran an Evangelist and took the Madness Domain.
You could also build towards spell perfection (Summon Monster IX), which would let you double Augment Summoning's stat bumps for anything you ever want to summon. Not sure if adding an additional creature from Superior Summoning would count as a "fixed numerical bonus" though.
That's a very, very interesting idea - I will have some later feat slots available which I was just going to use for Extra Channeling... I didn't realize that the Augment bonus applied but it makes sense. Would Maximize spell give you the maximum number of summoned creatures if you were to summon from a lower list?
I've never made a Cleric before, but I'm trying to put one together for a really tough campaign we're going to start soon. The rest of the party include two Human Paladins (Oath of Vengeance both), a Human Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline) and a Human Arcane Duelist. I'm supposed to be the de facto leader and kind of a 'favored daughter' of the church.
My first thought was to focus primarily on buffing and healing, so I took the Heroism subdomain (Glory) and the Restoration subdomain (Healing). Both seem ideally suited to group needs and to my concept. I also made the character an Aasimar, more to keep from having an all-human party and to fit the storyline a little better...
...but then I got to trying to figure out what to do when I wasn't healing or buffing. With my physical stats being just average, I couldn't make an effective martial combatant in melee or at range, nor were there any legitimate spammable Cleric spells that suited. My husband often runs Summoners of different types and I remembered that Cleric summoners were supposed to be a viable option - along with buffs and healing that sounded ideal.
So, I kind of pre-built the character this way - we're starting at 7th level:
1st - Fey Foundling
The two Paladins and I all decided to take Fey Foundling together, re-flavored as a boon of our Order - in part for the mechanical benefit, in part because it suited the concepts we shared. There are some other things we're doing similarly as well when it comes to gear and play.
After Selective Channeling, I figured Summon Good Monster would allow me more opportunities to use Sacred Summons - I want to try to only summon archons if possible - and then I'd take Augment and Superior Summoning as quickly as possible, once the onerous Spell Focus pre-req was selected. I noticed that Sacred Summons as is seems to only really favor Lawful Evil casters - why is it?
I know that a number of people on the boards have experience with Clerics as Summoners - is this a good way to go about it, or are there better examples I could follow? My thought was to basically summon one creature each combat as my 'stand-in' while I focused on healing and whatnot, only spamming in emergencies. Also, any advice when it comes to tactics or play-style would also be appreciated.
Thanks in advance. :)
The Spell Focus is a free feat from the archetype, as is Greater Spell Focus at 5th level (Lotus Geisha vs. Geisha).
The kama is a mechanically nice choice but I'm pretty sure its not one of the archetype's proficiencies, and it is a bit more martial than the concept allows for.
Also, there's one tiny error - the Skill Focus: Comedy at 16th level should be Skill Focus: Oration.
I haven't really looked at the Masterpieces, but that's an interesting thought.
I'd be interested in thoughts on this build:
Attributes: (20 point buy)
Skills: (9 ranks/level)
The character should have a very wide selection of spells available to her and have plenty of skills to play around with. I'm torn on Perception and Stealth, wondering if I should sprinkle in a variety of other Knowledge skills instead - I just know how often those skills are used.
Inspire Courage + Discordant Voice + Good Hope + Dazzling Display should make for some battle-tipping buffs & de-buffs.
I guess I was asking about people's thoughts of the mechanical aspects of it, how they might build it or what they might take into consideration since Summoners can be a bit complicated and the Synthesist is a new foray for me... not so much a moral judgement on the existence of Summoners across the board.
The latter, absolutely.
To further the marriage of RP and mechanics, I'll probably take the Eldritch Heritage feat for the Arcane Bloodline and make the artifact or weapon a Bonded item that can then be enchanted as I level up.
What would you think about a Half-Elven 2nd level Paladin / 18th level Synthesist (or whatever level ends up appropriate)? The concept would be that an artifact is discovered that gives him his powers similar to the Witchblade from comic book fame, perhaps one that takes the form of a weapon which grows in power with him?
I'm curious, because without having to worry about natural attacks or whatever, simply focusing on attributes and defenses and whatnot, I think it could be a very formidible character, and I'm talking with a GM about running this AP with just two players - the other being a Maste rSummoner who focuses on summoning celestial creatures or beings.
Will the Sorceress have a load of battlefield control spells?
No. The sorceress will focus heavily on mind-affecting spells with the goal being to lock down major threats and eventually to turn foes against their brothers. She'll probably also keep a handful of buffs and utility spells in her arsenal.
Hello all. First time making a non-combat purely support character and I thought I'd get a little advice from the experts. First a couple of things to take into account:
Character will likely be used for a Rise of the Runelords run.
The other three party members will be a Barbarian tank, an Archer and a Kitsune Sorcererss (Serpentine).
Human 1st level Witch / 16th level Bard
Attributes: (20 point buy)
Feats & Abilities:
Some very minor rules allowances by our GM:
Blessed Touch will work with the Witch's Healing Hex.
Eldritch Heritage: Arcane Bloodline - Arcane Bond will allow the character to have both a Familiar (from Witch level) and a Bonded object.
The concept is a scholar and lover of the arts who learned a little hedge magic from his grandmother when he was still a boy (the Witch level). He's not a pacifist, he's just no good in a fight and knows it, but despite that lack he still feels a lust for adventure, particularly when it comes to unravelling mysteries or discovering forgotten lore. The character's going to obviously go very heavily into knowledge and social skills and will use the human favored class bonus to have a wide swath of spells available. There are plans for the Kitsune and I to get Faerie dragons at the same time (9th level), presumably we'll find a clutch or a mated pair. Should make for some fun times.
Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts anyone might have.
Shoot me a private message so that I don't forget and when I have the builds in front of me I'll post them.
Btw - that Dervish is goign to be twins now when we start up Wrath of the Righteous. Me and another player, one representing Sarenrae's vengeful side, one her redemption but the builds will be identical. We're even going to take some teamwork feats so that we can fight more effectively together.
A grin at seeing two of my builds re-posted out of nowhere.
Heya Mors - I've updated both of those since posting them. Let me know if you want to see the improvements...
Was wondering on a ruling on this:
A 11th level Sorcerer...
I understand that technically force effects break the 'line of effect' rule for casting spells, but what about controlling spells already cast when line of sight is not an issue?
I appreciate the responses. The character in question, if he had a specific deity, it would be Azathoth the Old One (who also has the Madness Domain), but he's not a worshipper per se - he was captured by an Aboleth society deep beneath the earth and made a slave, eventually escaping and fleeing to the surface where he was greeted with a starry night sky - the very origin of his tormentors surrounfing everything. It broke his mind. Now he's dark abd brooding and convinced of the end of the world at the hands of Abberant overlords though he refuses to surrender to it. I'm not 100% sure how he's going to play this angle for the AP though...
I really don't think the player is a Summoner type though, so the point is probably moot.
Without knowing any more about the AP than what's been put out, I expect this group to waltz through most combat encounters, but the ones they don't might end up being a real struggle for them.
That shouldn't matter. Clerics possess an Aura as a class feature. As such, any Cleric should, even if that Aura is "Neutrality" (I have no strong feelings concerning this subject). In addition, their aura would be influenced by how they Channel energy - if it's "positive" or "negative" and even alternative Channeling still is impacted by this.
This could be incorrect, but to my knowledge there are no creatures with an 'Alignment subtype' of neutral, which I would imagine means a neutral Cleric can't get any mileage out of the Sacred Summons feat. And neutral Clerics who channel positive energy don't suddenly gain 'Good' auras, do they?
I'd love to be wrong on this.
The cleric could still be a strong summoner. In fact, there is a Feat that aura-possessing casters can use to cast Summoning spells as a Standard Action, and then other Feats to boost the power of the Summons (including Feats that provide summoned critters with attacks that count as silver, cold iron, or magic weapons).
Unfortunately he's running the Cleric as 'true neutral'. He's got a pretty impressive build/concept though - he carries a Dorn-Dergar as his 'deity's weapon', its heavy end actually a piece of raw star-metal ore. The madness-infused rock doubles as his holy symbol (he's less a priest and more an unwitting herald, but it all fits his background).
At 6th level, with WBL-appropriate gear and under the benefits of a simple Haste spell, his full attack would be +14/+12/+12 for 1d10+18 damage. That's pretty strong. Moreover, his Clerical Domain powers would still be at 6th level potency as would his CL. He'd still only have access to the spells of a 4th level Cleric but that's not so terrible a trade-off for being such a monster in combat.
Actually I was more concerned with flyers. The original plan was for the second dervish to be a Master Summoner with access to flying creatures, but he got all excited about the Dervish character that was being made and came up with the idea for a twin.
The Paladin is set - he was the first character made and he was made long before this AP was even announced. Guess we'll just have to get creative.
Wu Nakitu wrote:
That's a big part of the decision, and it fit in well with the character's backstory. We usually build characters for the whole game, not so much with an eye towards post-20 content.
There are four characters in this group - as written, there are twin Dervishes, a brother and a sister, meaning that there are two of them in addition to the Dwarven Cleric and the Paladin.
The Dervishes are taking the Crane Style feats which fits in perfectly with their fighting style, and they get an early, potent saving throw boost, evasion and other benefits as well.
The Dwarven Cleric is a character the player has been itching to play since a foray into Way of the Wicked. Two levels of Wild Rager make him a serious potential melee threat and also give him movement on par with the rest of the group. The Theologian archetype and Magical Knack covers some of the loss in Clerical potency... in all cases the characters are potentially giving up something very late in the character's devlopment in order to gain a lot more earlier on, and in each case the dip suits the character's concept ideally.
As I said, I'm only concerned with the lack of a potent ranged threat and the limited control ability of the party as a whole... with so much melee power and so much in-combat healing ability, I'm not really worried about survivability.
Everyone's really looking forward to this AP, and we've been working on our characters, both separately and as a prospective party. We're taking the angle of 'chosen' warriors sent or called to this region by our respective Gods for a purpose that has yet to be revealed. We really like the potential role-play associated with the characters, but it doesn't look like a 'classic' party. In particular I'm a little worried that it might roll through the early to middle levels but not have enough power at the top end - none of us know anything about the mythic rules.
Tiefling 1st level Oracle (Lore) / 19th level Paladin (Oath of Vengeance, Oath Against Fiends), raised in secret by a remote dwarven temple to Torag after his aasimar mother died in childbirth, the offspring of an Incubus intent on breeding for his own nefarious purposes. Stoic, brooding but the very embodiment of nobility and self-sacrifice.
Aasimar 2nd level Master of Many Styles / 18th level Dervish of Dawn, two of these, male and female twins who are ardent worshippers of Sarenrae. The Tiefling above will wrestle with his growing feelings for the sister while the brother regards him with utter disdain and suspicion.
Dwarven 2nd level Wild Rager / 18th level Theologian (Madness), a wild card, driven more than summoned, his motives as closely held a secret as his sanity.
The party should be pretty heavy on face & knowldge skills, healing (even in-combat healing), buffs and melee power... but it lacks any real battlefield control or a serious ranged threat. I'm wondering if that will come back to haunt us?
Actually, I will be running an Aasimar Dervish of Dawn - with doubled Inspire Courage that's gained at an accelerated rate, she should be significantly ahead of Fighters even with weapon training and Focus/Specialization. Add to that face skills, plenty of buff spells and the eventual ability to cast cure spells as a move action and she'll be tough to beat.
Heh - actually, looking at 15th level, she'll be able to have +8 attack/+8 damage on her turn and then +8 AC/+8 saves on everyone else's... pretty impressive, especially when you stack it with another +5 to attack, damage and AC from Dance of a Hundred Cuts.
So I could Cackle twice as a double move action while someone was in range and extend the Hex for two rounds, even if I were to stop cackling after that and the target went beyond 30'? That never occurred to me, thanks.
Each cackle adds one round to the duration of misfortune. Every time the witch cackles and that foe is within 30 feet, its duration is extended by one. If the foe steps out of 30 feet the duration doesn't suddenly shrink, but he's not going to have be affected by a cackle while he's out of range. Does that make sense? Cackle doesn't have to do with staying in range, it just extends to the duration for people affected by it.
So Cackle serves as a 're-application' of the original Hex, meaning that if one of the criteria of the original Hex were to fail (i.e. out of range, dead, whatever) then the original Hex would fail to re-apply?
I think I understand - I was reading through the Hexes themselves and didn't pay attention to the wording of Cackle itself. Not much use against ranged/flying foes then, eh?
Witch casts a spell with a range limitation like Misfortune (30') and the creatures fails its save. The Witch then proceeds to Cackle throughout the encounter, but that creature moves beyond the 30' range of the Hex. Does the Hex persist as long as she Cackles or does it fail once the creature moves outside of range?
FAQ it! If they rule 'no response required', and it's still not clear, they've asked us to re-FAQ a new thread.
As far as I/we are concerned, they can all target the same foe. There are too many other ways for the damage to be mitigated for it to be even the slightest bit game-breaking. Besides... the fluff of it is going to be cool - an Aasimar Dervish of Dawn/Soundstriker, the 'words' manifesting as waves of sound created as the Dervish slices her scimitar repeatedly through the air.
That's some good advice. I totally dropped the ball on Power Attack so I'll have to find a good option to replace that.
The way I see it, the benefits of Arcane Bond are two-fold (apart from the role-play aspect of a Dervish of Dawn being bonded with the same weapon used by her Goddess): the first is an extra spell per day of the highest level you can cast. To me that's worth a feat (or two) any day of the week. The second is the ability to enchant the item as if you had the necessary feats/spells - which leads me to the reason you don't see Improved Critical, as Keen would be the very first enchantment I'd put on it.
I really looked long and hard at finding some way to get a good critical feat or two in there later in the build - I especially wanted Blinding Critical because I thought the flavor would be good (blinded by Sarenrae's holy light), but Staggering Critical is the best option I have given my slower BAB advancement... and its not so bad once you consider that Crane Wing and Crane Riposte would be devastating against any foe limited to a standard action.
Toughness might replace Power Attack... though by 12th level I'll be able to give myself 4d10+4 temporary hit points as a swift action, heal myself as a move action and deflect at least 1 attack every round. I'll look at it though. An option might be to drop my Dexterity from 17 to 16 to get those three points to raise my Strength to 13.
EDIT: As an aside, its really aggravating when there are redundant pre-req's for feats (such as being forced to take Weapon Finesse as a requirement for Piranha Strike when you already have Dervish Dance). Its easy for me to forget about Weapon Finesse in particular because in our game we've done away with it as a feat and made it a weapon trait instead.
Morning all. :)
I've been working on an Aasimar Dervish of Dawn, getting ready for an upcoming campaign where we will have three characters, each representing one of the major good Gods (Torag, Iomedea and Sarenrae) working towards a common endeavour. I get to be Sarenrae, obviously, and I really wanted to build just the best servant/chosen one for her that I could. The results, after play-test, have been amazing and I wanted to put her up here so that the experts could give me any advice on things they think I might not have considered and interested newbies could benefit from all my hard work.
The thought process was to go Aasimar for Dervish of Dawn to be able to maximize the doubled Inspire Courage benefit by using the race's favored class option to accelerate the rate it advances. Azata-blooded was chosen for obvious reasons - they are literally the divine bard - and the other benefits provided were nice. From there I decided to take a couple of levels of Master of Many Styles to secure the Crane Style feats and to shore up my defenses (saves boost, evasion, etc.), plus there's something about the imagery of wielding a scimitar and the Crane Wing style that seemed to have wonderful symetry. Those levels were taken at 2nd and 3rd.
I've been very impressed with the character in combat - she can initiate her performance as a move action at 1st, but by 12th level she can begin it as a swift, meaning that she can literally switch back and forth between Inspire Courage and Inspire Greatness (and eventually Inspire Heroics) during her turn, meaning at one point she'll have +8 to attack and damage on her turn and +8 AC and saves on her opponents turn. Nice, eh? And that's before buffs like Cat's Grace or Dance of a Hundred Cuts. Additionally, she'll be able to cast healing spells as a move action starting at 10th level, making heals during combat actually viable.
Pretty much all of her spells will be of the buff or healing variety with a few utility options thrown in, meaning that DC saves won't be particularly important.
So far in play tests she's managed to best (heads up) all of the martial characters we've put her up against, and has the added benefit of a wide variety of skills and spells as well. I'm really excited about her potential, but I know that the experts on this board can always offer tweaks for improvement.
FWIW, she's intended to be used in the next upcoming AP (which will remain nameless to keep this thread from getting bounced from the forums), and the rest of her party will be a Tiefling Paladin of Torag (raised in seclusion in a dwarven temple) who I think is going to have a crush on her, a Half-Elven Master Summoner who only summons celestial creatures and good outsiders (a worshipper or Iomedea) and possibly a mad Dwarven Cleric who doesn't really worship anyone but is convinced that our doom is near.
Aasimar 18th level Dervish of Dawn / 2nd level Master of Many Styles
Attributes: (20 point build)
Skills: (7/level, 5 @ levels 2 & 3)
Zog of Deadwood wrote:
That looks like a ton of fun! I'll definitely keep that build in mind--I enjoy playing strongly Light Side characters. However, the OP is going a...different...route.
Yeah, I get that - but in my opinion its just a handwave for the GM to allow a character to have the same skill set and be darkside. No reason for the good guys to have all the fun, and the build works almost as well for Humans...
Zog of Deadwood wrote:
I've been working on an Aasimar Dervish of Dawn for the upcoming Wrath of the Righteous AP and the results have been spectacular.
Dervish of Dawn doesn't get the reduced number of Performance rounds that the Archeologist does and the effects of Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness and Inspire Heroics are all DOUBLE when applied to them. Moreover an Aasimar accelerates the progression of one Performance type, meaning that by 12th level Inspire Courage would give an Aasimar Dervish of Dawn +8 attack & +8 Damage (for instance). At 15th level you can make a full attack at +8/+8, drop your Bardic Performance as a free action and begin it again as a swift action but this time using Inspire Heroics and gain +8 AC/+8 Saves during your opponents turn before switching it back out again the next round. They also gain the ability to cast heal spells as a move+swift action, can cast without penalty in light armor and get the Dervish Dance feat for free. And that's not even mentioning the effects of spells like Dance of 100 Cuts.
I'm telling you, when well made, this archetype is utterly off the hook. Mine is going to be taking a 2 level dip in MoMS for the full Crane Style feat line early on.
I have an absolutely amazing Dervish of Dawn build if you're interested...
Short version is an Aasimar Dervish of Dawn devotee of Sarenrae (I'm building her for the upcoming Wrath of the Righteous AP) with a two level dip of MoMS for the Crane Style feats. The Aasimar's favored class option is used to accelerate Inspire Courage, giving the character +8 attack and damage by 14th level (12 + 2 level Monk dip). Moreover at later levels you can get +8 AC and saves using Inspire Heroics, allowing you to pull off tricks like this.
Lots of skills, lots of spellcasting ability and as much punch as any Fighter I've ever played...
I've been working on an Aasimar Dervish of Dawn, hoping to capitalize on their favored class option and I found this comparison interesting. It takes into account only:
The BAB for each class.
Dervish of Dawn
Obviously we aren't taking into account the relative attribute which would reasonably be equivalent for both characters nor are we taking into account additional Fighter feats or Dervish spells (like Dance of a Hundred Cuts). I thought it a fair comparison and was surprised by the results, considering all of the other things the Dervish can do:
If healing is really going to be 'your thing', then try to take the feat Healer's Touch into consideration. Assuming your GM allows for it.
Pick up one of those thumb counters people use to keep track of your healing and hold off on the damage til you reach your target goal. The benefit is huge for the healing-focused.
The rest of the build, FYI...
Teamwork feats will also be taken by Animal Companion at around the same level. I'm making the character melee-centric (obviously) and crit-focused, going for higher static bonuses than larger damage dice.
Putting together a character for a possible run in Jade Regent but this is my first foray into Rangers as a whole since beginning Pathfinder play. The Infiltrator looks like the best option for me right now and I'm trying to pre-plan my favored enemies and the attendent Infiltrator abilities that will come with them.
The character in question will be a Dwarven Infiltrator (I don't think I'm going to stack another archetype onto it) who will focus on two-weapon fighting and will have an animal companion (undecided). The rest of the party will be a Human Witch, a Human Barbarian and a Halfling Archeologist.
This is what I'm thinking:
1st - Favored Enemy (Goblinoid +2)
The main thought behind focusing on the Giants specifically is in part because it suits the traditional nature of dwarves but mechanically its so that I can get the greatest eventual benefit from Instant Enemy.
Any thoughts or insight into the character or the AP (without actual spoilers, of course) would be much appreciated.
If you have any idea where this thread is, I'd be interested in seeing it as I haven't seen such a thread. Since I don't have any of the data on what to search for to narrow it down from the dozen of threads on this topic, which you presumably have, that'd be wonderful to see.
Agreed - I'd love to see that. My searches have only resulted in finding inconclusive discussion.
How incredibly worthless (as a 6th level power no less) would Weird Words be if that were the interpretation?
Weird Words (Su): At 6th level, a sound striker can start a performance as a standard action, lashing out with 1 potent sound per bard level (maximum 10), each sound affecting one target within 30 feet. These are ranged touch attacks. Each weird word deals 1d8 points of damage plus the bard’s Charisma bonus (Fortitude half ), and the bard chooses whether it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage for each word.
The question is whether or not you can attack the same target with multiple words. Saying specifically that each word can affect only one target seems to suggest that a word can't affect multiple targets, not that a single target can't be affected by multiple words.
The fact that you have to 1) succeed on a touch attack, 2) beat a Fort save and 3) overcome DR since it's slashing/bludgeoning or piercing damage seems to suggest that the ability would be basically worthless if the additional restriction of one word per target was placed on it... moreover, how often does a character have 6-10 different valid targets in a single round? I can't believe it was intended to be so incredibly limited.
And just out of curiosity, would Clustered Shots work with this feat, assuming a target can be affected by multiple words?
Finally, Wordstrike, from the same archetype:
Wordstrike (Su): At 3rd level, the sound striker bard can spend 1 round of bardic performance as a standard action to direct a burst of sonically charged words at a creature or object. This performance deals 1d4 points of damage plus the bard’s level to an object, or half this damage to a living creature.
What's the range on this?
Lord Twig wrote:
I too find the playing of instruments silly in combat, but I find myself really enjoying a number of Bard archetypes.
In Skull and Shackles I was a human Sea Singer who was fairly non-combatant but was chosen captain of our ship. She whistled which was effective for dancing a jig, controlling the winds or calming the crew... but in actual combat she simply used oration to command the battle.
In Rise of the Runelords I was a halfling archeologist who was also fairly non-combatant, more of a bookworm, linguist, cartographer and historian who had a fascination with traps.
In Second Darkness I was a human Arcane Duelist who was all about combat and social situations. He used oration as well.
For the upcoming Wrath of the Righteous, I'm going to be going with an Aasimar Dervish of Dawn who's 'performance' will be her battle dance. I've already run some playtests and she's going to be absolutely deadly in combat.
Four Bards and not an instrument in sight.
I'm currently play-testing an Aasimar Dervish of Dawn with a two level dip in MOMS for the Crane style feats and the results are absurd thus far (in particular with the Aasimar's favored class option for Bards).
One question I've always had is whether or not the feat Improved Unarm Strike opens the door for you for two-weapon fighting even with Dervish Dance's restrictions? I doubt I'd use it as the build it pretty tight, but its something to consider.