Garretmander wrote:
I'm gonna take this as a compliment because I need a win, dammit. ;)
Rory wrote:
Actually, you're both wrong. It says "if you have A ability you get B, if you have X ability you get Y." But the person in question has both A and X, making them capable of getting both B and Y, which isn't mentioned by the ability because normally A and X are mutually exclusive. Quite frankly, if you spent the time and effort to possess what are normally mutually exclusive abilities, I don't have a problem as DM with allowing you to make use of them. I DO think that it would technically be the same source (same ability giving both bonuses) and so would not work by RAW.
Matt Gwinn wrote: . +1 to pretty much everything Matt said. Not only are we not required to make a character who is good at combat, we're not required to make a character who is even interested in it. There used to be a Vow of Pacifism available for strictly non-combat characters, this sort of thing isn't new. I'm currently playing a venerable half-elf caster who explicitly refuses to risk his health for any reason. (He's "getting too old for this s%#+!") I would venture a guess that if you only had four party members the player would make more of an effort to be useful during conflict but... it sounds like what the player is doing is fun to him. And he probably very much appreciates efficient optimizers like you enabling him to play in the fashion he likes. Does he ever rant and rave at you for not running away with him to play dice in an alley? Just leave him be and assume he's a non-combatant. If you absolutely MUST make an issue of it, I'd confront him in character. That way you can vent your frustrations, maybe even be abusive for the sake of catharsis, without making it personal.
ProfessorCirno wrote:
Except that, in my admittedly quick skim of the 108 posts since I last visited this thread, I haven't seen anyone "bash" 4th ed. players. Bashing of 4th ed. isn't the same thing as bashing its players. And I've seen quite a bit of "bashing those who bash 4th ed" which is a good deal less mature than the bashing of 4th ed, imo. And now the word bash has lost all meaning for me. Bash. Frankly, the only reason I mentioned 4th in my own earlier post was because someone said not to and after double-checking it turned out they were not the boss of me. And I made a phone call a little while ago and heard that most of the gamers I knew in my last city refer to Pathfinder as Pathfinder. But they didn't stop playing 3.5 for a couple of years after Paizo started publishing.
I've been pretty vocal about hating the Monk for quite some time, and about the fact that a fighter can be a superior (if unsatisfying due to the light damage their strikes inflict) unarmed combatant because of their sheer number of feats. Having stopped by the boards last night I found a lot of discussion about the new Gish class (sorry guys, I'm not going to call it a Magus) and it reminded me that there have been all sorts of new classes put out. This is NOT a problem in my mind. Those who don't like adding new core classes are welcome to their opinions but for those of us who crave variety having more options sanctioned by the creators of the game is simply fantastic. My only issue is that it seems like magic always gets more love than martial classes. SO. Since I'm tired of waiting for someone else to "fix" the Monk. (And I hear tell that some people actually want the whole "mystic" flavor attached to it) I decided to make my own core class - one which is about kicking the snot out of people instead of falling really far. The problem I've run into is one of imagination. I have a couple of unique class features that I really like: Stances, Styles, Techniques, and Combination Attacks. I need help with variety though, my imagination is a bit tapped out so suggestions for new things to add to those sections would be welcome. Also, I'm uncertain about power level because I've never homebrewed something to this extent, and certainly not for PF. So a lot of the numerical effects were drawn directly out of BS, although I tried to keep things tame. Anyway, what follows is my (currently incomplete, give me a hand) Martial Artist class. This is, in my mind, a replacement for monk although the two are vastly different and could probably both exist in the same campaign with a minimum of fuss. (Essentially the Martial Artist is Bruce Lee, while the existing Monk would be... some asian guy who gets knocked around a lot by fighters, I guess.) Feel free to offer suggestions. Please try to be constructive. I'll do my best to be thick-skinned if you'll do your best to be kind. *** Martial Artist
Alignment
Hit Die
Starting Wealth
Class Skills
Skill Ranks Per Level
Table: Martial Artist
1st +1 Unarmed Strike, Armor Restriction, Combination Attack, AC Bonus, Unarmed 1d6, Unarmed Combat, Style 2nd +2 Technique 3rd +3 Combination Attack 4th +4 Stance, Unarmed 1d8 5th +5 Combination Attack 6th +6/+1 Kata 7th +7/+2 Combination Attack 8th +8/+3 Stance, Technique, Unarmed 1d10 9th +9/+4 Combination Attack 10th +10/+5 Mastery 11th +11/+6/+1 Combination Attack 12th +12/+7/+2 Stance, Improved Kata, Unarmed 2d6 13th +13/+8/+3 Combination Attack 14th +14/+9/+4 Technique 15th +15/+10/+5 Combination Attack 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 Stance, Unarmed 2d8 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 Combination Attack 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 Superior Kata 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 Combination Attack 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 Stance, Technique, Grandmastery, Unarmed 2d10 Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Saves
AC Bonus (Ex)
Unarmed Strike
Stances (Ex)
Unarmed Combat
Armor Restriction
Style (Ex)
Combination Attack (Ex)
Techniques (Ex)
Kata (Ex)
Mastery (Ex)
Improved Kata (Ex)
Superior Kata (Ex)
Grandmastery (Ex)
--- Style List Blinding Speed: A Martial Artist who utilizes Blinding Speed is an agile combatant who employs their amazing dexterity in order to avoid attacks and place precision counterstrikes. +1 competence bonus to AC and +10 feet of movement. Good saves: Ref & Will. (Dex) Mighty Blows: Able to destroy castle walls with a single strike, Martial Artists of this style favor offense over defense and can choose some of the most vicious combination attacks. +1 competence bonus to hit with Unarmed strikes and may reroll 1s on Unarmed Strike damage. The Martial Artist may only reroll any given damage die once, even if the second roll results in a 1. Good saves: Fort & Will. (Str) Wise Warrior: Specializing in spotting weak points in an enemy’s defense, the Wise Warrior achieves victory through keen senses and absolute timing. May ignore DR of equal or less than ¼ of their Martial Artist level (rounded down), minimum 1. Good saves: Ref & Will. (Wis) Kung Fu Genius: Brilliant tacticians and natural combatants, the Kung Fu Genius can formulate a plan of attack in the time it takes most men to blink, earning them the respect of their peers. +1 initiative and +4 to all social interactions (Bluff, Diplomacy, etc.) with martial classes. (ie: d10 HD) Good saves: Fort & Ref. (Int) Undying Champion: Having trained in esoteric methods of weathering pain and mitigating damage, the Undying Champion can resist the mightiest of blows. Gain DR equal to ¼ class level (rounded down), minimum 1. Good saves: Fort & Ref. (Con) ____: Some kind of Charisma based style? No good ideas... --- Stance List Patient Scorpion Stance: access to precise combos, techniques
--- Combination Attack List Jab: bonus to hit, penalty to damage
--- Technique List Iron Shirt: dr or ac?
I've been pretty vocal about hating the Monk for quite some time, and about the fact that a fighter can be a superior (if unsatisfying due to the light damage their strikes inflict) unarmed combatant because of their sheer number of feats. Having stopped by the boards last night I found a lot of discussion about the new Gish class (sorry guys, I'm not going to call it a Magus) and it reminded me that there have been all sorts of new classes put out. This is NOT a problem in my mind. Those who don't like adding new core classes are welcome to their opinions but for those of us who crave variety having more options sanctioned by the creators of the game is simply fantastic. My only issue is that it seems like magic always gets more love than martial classes. SO. Since I'm tired of waiting for someone else to "fix" the Monk. (And I hear tell that some people actually want the whole "mystic" flavor attached to it) I decided to make my own core class - one which is about kicking the snot out of people instead of falling really far. The problem I've run into is one of imagination. I have a couple of unique class features that I really like: Stances, Styles, Techniques, and Combination Attacks. I need help with variety though, my imagination is a bit tapped out so suggestions for new things to add to those sections would be welcome. Also, I'm uncertain about power level because I've never homebrewed something to this extent, and certainly not for PF. So a lot of the numerical effects were drawn directly out of BS, although I tried to keep things tame. Anyway, what follows is my (currently incomplete, give me a hand) Martial Artist class. This is, in my mind, a replacement for monk although the two are vastly different and could probably both exist in the same campaign with a minimum of fuss. (Essentially the Martial Artist is Bruce Lee, while the existing Monk would be... some asian guy who gets knocked around a lot by fighters, I guess.) Feel free to offer suggestions. Please try to be constructive. I'll do my best to be thick-skinned if you'll do your best to be kind. *** Martial Artist
Alignment
Hit Die
Starting Wealth
Class Skills
Skill Ranks Per Level
Table: Martial Artist
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Technique 3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Combination Attack 4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Stance, Unarmed 1d8 5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Combination Attack 6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Kata 7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Combination Attack 8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Stance, Technique, Unarmed 1d10 9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Combination Attack 10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Mastery 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Combination Attack 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Stance, Improved Kata, Unarmed 2d6 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Combination Attack 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Technique 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Combination Attack 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 Stance, Unarmed 2d8 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Combination Attack 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Superior Kata 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Combination Attack 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Stance, Technique, Grandmastery, Unarmed 2d10 Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
AC Bonus (Ex)
Unarmed Strike
Stances (Ex)
Unarmed Combat
Armor Restriction
Style (Ex)
Combination Attack (Ex)
Techniques (Ex)
Kata (Ex)
Mastery (Ex)
Improved Kata (Ex)
Superior Kata (Ex)
Grandmastery (Ex)
Style List
Mighty Blows: Able to destroy castle walls with a single strike, Martial Artists of this style favor offense over defense and can choose some of the most vicious combination attacks. +1 competence bonus to hit with Unarmed strikes and may reroll 1s on Unarmed Strike damage. The Martial Artist may only reroll any given damage die once, even if the second roll results in a 1. (Str) Wise Warrior: Specializing in spotting weak points in an enemy’s defense, the Wise Warrior achieves victory through keen senses and absolute timing. May ignore DR of equal or less than ¼ of their Martial Artist level (rounded down), minimum 1. (Wis) Kung Fu Genius: Brilliant tacticians and natural combatants, the Kung Fu Genius can formulate a plan of attack in the time it takes most men to blink, earning them the respect of their peers. +1 initiative and +4 to all social interactions (Bluff, Diplomacy, etc.) with martial classes. (ie: d10 HD) (Int) Undying Champion: Having trained in esoteric methods of weathering pain and mitigating damage, the Undying Champion can resist the mightiest of blows. Gain DR equal to ¼ class level (rounded down), minimum 1. (Con) Stance List
Combination Attack List
Technique List
james maissen wrote:
Actually that line could easily read as meaning you DON'T have concealment. "Unlike actual total concealment" That line wouldn't be written that way if they intended you actually treat it like real concealment. Instead, you're to treat it like concealment only for effects expressly mentioned in the description, like miss chance. Miss chance is not automatically the same as concealment and they were clear about the two being separate in that spell. If you were supposed to treat it like actual concealment the spell description would be much shorter: "This grants the recipient x% concealment." or something like that. EDIT Just to reiterate, because it's important, this spell does NOT grant concealment. It grants miss chance. (I checked the SRD to make sure I wasn't misremembering)
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Switch to decaf. He may be "deluded" but that doesn't make him a liar. In fact, belief is necessary for delusion, which pretty much precludes him from lying. In a zone of truth spell for example, he'd be fine saying "I'm a paladin of Aroden" because he believes it to be true. Anyway, in MY games worshipers directly correlate to life for gods. You kill off their faith base, you kill off the god and that's the preferred method of warfare between gods; letting their churches blow each other up. Which is why in my games and in those of most DMs I know, you get enough belief going on and you either resurrect a god or make a new one. There's plenty of backing for that in fluff, too. Some of the relatively new Dragonlance books specifically involve a god made due to the lack of old gods. (That Mina chick.) Lots of Forgotten Realms stuff backs this too. During the Time of Troubles gods fought directly and sucked the life out of their peons to do it; which ultimately weakened the gods in question. Sure, you can argue that there are greater gods who are divorced from the belief-dependence, but for the most part it's the worshipers that make everything go. [Edit]
So I've been geeking out a little bit on the threads where people have brought up martial arts, and I'm curious. Has anyone tried representing martial arts in d20 via feats? I know that the monk class is supposed to be the HtH fighting master, but that's sort of a joke; so I find myself wondering about other avenues. I know it's pretty simple to use feats to simulate a lot of martial arts stuff and I'm wondering if you could take it a step farther with dedicated feat style trees. There was a little bit of this going on in Star Wars d20 of all places, so I thought I'd ask if anyone has pioneered this at all. I'll see if I can find and adapt some of the feats I've seen; maybe post some new ones. I'd like to see whether any of you have input in the same vein. |