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Organized Play Member. 19 posts (827 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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Sylvanite wrote:
Crits and sneak attack (basically precision damage) don't apply twice. Other than that, almost everything applies twice with manyshot. That's why it's so amazing.

My DM stated that because "flaming" and other properties were +1 and didnt work with crit that this shouldn't either.


I've got character with many shot, and a bane bow. Do the extra bane dice apply to both arrows on the manyshot? Does the additional +2 apply to both arrows on the many shot? How does this work with a crit? Can you cite sources for these rulings in either the rules or DMG?

Thanks for the help!


Quandary wrote:

I liked Fighter/Barb because besides Fort Save and HP, you can get good melee Class Abilities...

In my case I had while Raging, the Will + Fort Save bonus, plus Rage Powers like the Will Save Re-Roll or Knockback.
Fighter variants like 2 Handed Fighter let you increase your Standard Attack dmg by +50% STR, which synergizes with the Dragon Disciple Route.
But if you plan on being the prime Arcane Caster, maybe those are secondary concerns...
...I just don`t go into Dragon Disciple in the 1st place if I plan on being the primary arcane caster.

Recognizing that the balance you`re aiming for is LEANING TOWARDS fulfilling the arcane caster role (even if not as much as a full arcane caster), I think the Magician Bard variant has alot going for it, with the action economy of Immediate Action Dispels, PLUS being able to learn regular Wizard/Sorceror spells (at 2nd, 6th, 10th... class level), which was your big concern.

Yeah, I guess my problem is that I'm really trying to fill several roles. The party has no face, it could use more damage 9what party couldnt) and it could use some arcane help like (especially) haste.


Quandary wrote:

That was what I was going to write, seeing your party line-up with no other arcane caster.

Magus would be awesome, esp. if you can still grab Wizard spells, but no Dragon Disciple there.
If you can wait until Ultimate Magic, there`s a Witch Magus variant, so going with STR Patron could ALMOST do what you`re going for...

Since it sounds like you are interested in filling more of the arcane caster role,
(which my own build didn`t care about doing at all, he was just going for uber STR along with good WilL Save and Nat Armor)
I`d suggest dropping Barbarian (it`s Rage conflicts with Casting after all),
and stacking up a few more Sorceror levels, i.e. starting out Ftr3/Sor3...

Why? stacking sorc only costs you 1 bab and you end up with more natural armor and spells. Yes?

I still agree on the arcane dualist being a better base though, it has what I need, except for spells.


Abraham spalding wrote:
Save some feats, get better features and go with the arcane duelist bard instead of sorcerer.

I had considered this, but the fact is that the bard spell selection is somewhat inferior to the sorcerer and as Enlarge is going to be a staple spell for me, I'd really like to have it.


Hyundai Head-Smasher wrote:

Check the profile for this character. He is a Ftr3/Barb2/Sorc1/DD2 (off the top of my head)

He also was heavily buffed up with 12-16th CL Potions to get his AC numbers.

Note that he has 5% Arcane Spell Failure, but I consider that accetable,
especially since he can`t cast spell while Raging.
You could NOT go Barbarian, and go full Fighter (or Pally if you roll like that) to avoid Rage/Casting issues,
but I don`t think it`s that big a deal, you can hold back on Rage while buffing the first round of combat, and it`s OK...
Moving + Spell Casting + Enter Rage lets you use Rage defensively the very first Round.
(if you go Full Fighter, taking full advantage of Armor Training to Tumble in Mitrhil Plate may require also taking both levels of Arcane Armor Training to Cast in Mitrhil Full Plate, and you may still have some ASF%)

Basically, I prefer a spell-casting LIGHT Dragon Disciple, with only minimal levels in Sorceror.
You can `finish` with either ElK levels like you did, more Barb levels (giving up on top level spells), and/or Sorceror levels, gaining spells and high level Bloodline Powers.

Also note: Bladed Scarf is NOT a Reach Weapon in PRPG, it`s stats changed from 3.5 to PRPG.
Using a Reach Weapon while Enlarged, while giving UBER reach as you noticed, DOES have trade-offs: if anything closes (such as via Invisiblity) to adjacent squares, YOU CAN`T 5` STEP and attack it with your Reach Weapon. For this reason, if you have armor, install armor spikes.

We're apparently running the 3.5 version of the scarf with all the reachy goodness, no spikes needed (but I will take them anyway)


OK, only material ffom three books is authorized. The core book, APG and the little players guide to rise of the runelords (We're running rise of the runelords). 25 point build. Here is what I came up with, you make it better! Party consists of a Fighter who will be the main front line guy, archer cleric and a summoning lion/feline focused druid. I've got the oddball spot in the group so I could go one of many ways, but the concept of a massive str, a big reach and a dragon form for later on excite me.

Human or Half elf
Str 18
dex 14
con 14
int 10
wis 10
cha 14

1 Fight1 Power Attack, EWP Bladed Scarf, Combat Reflexes
2 Sorc1
3 Sorc2 Combat Casting
4 Sorc3
5 Sorc4 Arcane Armor Training
6 DD1
7 DD2 Lunge, Bloodline Feat (Improved initiative)
8 DD3
9 DD4 Arcane Armor Mastery
10 DD5 Bloodline Feat (Quicken Spell)
11 DD6 Arcane Strike
12 DD7
13 DD8 Step Up, Bloodline Feat (Toughness)
14 EK1
15 EK2 x
16 EK3
17 EK4 x
18 EK5
19 EK6 x
20 EK7

I know I like the concept of working with the bladed scarf. I'm going to have reach when I'm enlarged, why not make it big reach, and later in the build when I assume dragon form (by way of spells or by class feature) the combat reflexes let me use that as well. I'm not clear how I could make this better. I'm pretty sure step up/lunge isn't optimal that late in the build, I'm not sure how the armor mastery chain is looked upon especially since I'll have an eventual natural armor bonus from the draconic bloodline.

So, suggestions?


ShadowcatX wrote:

IMO seeking and ghost touch will both be heavily dm and campaign dependent but the rest of the advice I agree with.

Personally, I'd grab the feat that buffed my animal companion by 4 levels (can't think of the name of it).

I forgot to mention it's APG and core book only, any other material was deemed off limits. I tried to get boon companion but no dice. Seeking is a HUGE bonus in this campaign, lots of invisible casters about, lots of mirror image, just lots of concealment from all sorts of sources.

Equipment is shaping up as follows (totals up to about 36500, which is what I have for a budget):

Arrows of Goblin Bane (10)
Extend rod
Mitheral Shirt
Handy Haversack
Efficient Quiver
Potion of Cure moderate wounds (2)
Pearl of Power 1st
Wand of Cure light wounds
Wand of Cure moderate wounds
Bow of Dragon Bane and Seeking +1

Depending on if instant enemy and bane would stack on targets I declare with the spell, I would swap out to seeking arrows and a dragon bane bow.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

A couple of staples for any archery based ranger will be Efficient Quiver, and Handy Haversack. Fill the quiver full of arrows, extra bows. Keep even more arrows in bundles in the haversack.

As for weapons you are probably already doing decent damage so should be looking for other abilities on the bow. Seeking will avoid miss chance so would be a good investment. Ghost Touch will be helpful vs. Incorporeal targets like many undead. Holy will not only do extra damage vs. Evil but also bypass DR. of a lot of creatures. Your bow should be enchanted with things that will be hard to find in arrows.

Bracers of Archery are always good, but probably lesser will have to do unless you want to blow your whole budget.

An Oathbow can be devastating but has a lot of restrictions that may lower its usefulness.

Belt of Dexterity would also be a good investment.

Don't bother with shot on the run. As an archer you should be standing your ground and taking a full attack. Pinpoint Targeting will be much better. If you get a Seeking bow you will also not need improved precise shot.

Thank you for your feedback, I considered seeking and will take it on your suggestion but it only applies to concealment. Improved Precise Shot at that point only offers to negate partial cover, so it still gives a little something but I am inclined to drop it from my list based on this.

Pinpoint targeting just feels weak to me, I'd be inclined to disagree with you here. A single shot that gets no physical armor mods and I don't even get a move that round or it negates the benefits of the feat? Maybe if I had the vital strike chain, but I do not.


We've been given the chance to touch up our characters mid campaign, an opportunity I don't want to waste.

Human Ranger 8, archery spec
14 str, 16 dex 14 con, 10 int, 14 wis, 10 cha
(+2 race, +2 level bonuses, going to dex)

Feats as follows
1- Point blank shot, precise shot
2- Rapid Shot (ranger archery feat)
3- Deadly Aim
5- Weapon Focus - Longbow
6- Point Blank Master (ranger archery feat)
8- Manyshot

Future
9- Improved Critical, longbow
10- Shot on the run? (ranger archery feat)
11- Improved precise shot

I know human is not optimal, but #1 I can't imagine swapping races at this point. #2 The Wizard has dark vision and I have an extend rod, it's mitigating the major flaw in humans at this point and I'm happy.

My wolf will be riding ready when he turns large at 10th level, so I might replace an upcoming feat with mounted combat just to keep some damage off him when we're at range.

Favored enemies are goblinoids (+2) and Dragons (+4). These have worked out very well and came at the suggestion of the DM. I'll either snag undead or giants at level 10 and bump dragons to +6.

I have 37k to blow in gear. I already know one dragon got away and we have intel on at least one more in this campaign, plus the campaign has been rife dragon spawn which the DM has been kind enough to deem as dragon subtype, so I am getting a FE bonus a LOT. As such I was either going to snag 20 arrows of dragon bane or just do a +1 bow with dragon bane on it, especially since in two levels I should be able to cast instant enemy. This would allow me to treat the target as my FE for "all purposes", which I think would allow my dragon bane to apply to any target I cast this on. Is this the case?

My traits are Magical Knack and any other trait (right now it's captains blade, gives acrobatics as a class skill but I haven't gotten much use of it)

Gear/build advice? Thank you in advance, really appreciate what help you can give.


Sangalor wrote:
* Grappling all of you on a successful hit: Sounds a bit fishy. Though monsters get a grab attack and can grapple you on a hit, to actually keep you grappled they are assumed to use all their appendages. Once they only use a single one, their checks get a lot harder. But it's not an easy rule, so that might have been overlooked - or there is no issue in the first place :-)

In this case it was intended to land all the melee hits automatically on any player it grappled. It ended up just using the swallow whole action and killed the wizard (really dead).

Sangalor wrote:
* blindsense monsters + obscuring mist + lightning: Did you try to dispel the fog? Throw up resistances? Lure them out? Separate them somehow? Summoned aid? Tough scenario though...

Yeah they were set up, we ran, rested, rebuffed and returned. We won, only one party member went under 0, another two were out of the fight for the duration due to being sickened (nauseated? whichever renders you unable to take actions). Then the remainder of us were mostly confused. Eventually the cleric and my ranger pulled it out with some cross healing love and him dispelling my confusion. It was determined that the mist couldn't be dispelled (LMAO), so when we returned we came back with wind wall.

Sangalor wrote:
* Invisible casters: Let your wizard memorize see invisibility and scribe some scrolls. Summon monsters with scent. Globes of invulnerability. Use swarms. Glitterdust by the bard is golden. Dispel the summoned monsters. Use magic circles and protection from evil - and these summoned minions won't be a problem anymore.

I actually have 14 hours of scent/day with bloodhound and my extend rod (can't believe he let me purchase that rod). It's only a +8ish to find them, but it's good enough. All that is good advice. I'm not sure he'd allow dispel to cancel a summoned monster.

Sangalor wrote:
* Buy equipment! A wand of fireballs may well be worth it, your wizard can use it without problems even though he banned evocation.

Money issues, but thank you. Our necklace of fireballs was used up in the obscuring mist fight.

Sangalor wrote:

* Battlefield control spells: Did you try solid fog? black tentacles? Entangle by the ranger? Also spells like grease on someone who was grappled or dimension door...

* Confuse, command etc. the opponents! The more there are, the more will fail!

We have solid fog now, the monsters always seem to make saves to the point that glitterdust and grease were probably 10% effective. I've not seen (or am not able to recall) black tentacles successfully grappling anyone but our own fighter (again, monster saves). I haven't even bothered dropping entagle as the ranger since the 22ish int wizard is pretty much dominated by enemy saves.

Thank you for the input, I'll see what I can do.


Dabbler wrote:
If you are playing Pathfinder, your cleric should be able to blow spells on buffing, channelling should deal with party healing effectively enough. Your bard should also be buffing the party, making saves more effective and boosting your attacks.

Yeah, we're getting there. This is a case of many of the party members rolling characters for a normal campaign and being taken for a ride on the end of a spear. The cleric probably would have tried for selective channel and not gone dwarf had he known. The buffs do go out, but it's too little too late. In the most recent encounter where we dimension doored back into a dungeon encounter we had previously failed (two guys under 0) I was able to have lead blades, enlarge, haste, bloodhound, longstrider and two forms of energy resist on my ranger. I lived, but not by a ton. The key encounter villain escaped however.

Dabbler wrote:

What sort of character generation have you used?

What sort of Wealth By Level do you have?

We used 25 point, with max HP. I tallied my items and they came to 30k. It's mostly in misc magic items, I'm still using a +1 composite bow and not much chance of finding another, he's seen that archery works well. I did at one time get my hands on 7 ice arrows, it was the best 7 shots I've had.

Dabbler wrote:
If you are new to the game, start at 1st level, always. It just gets too complex otherwise, there is too much to learn.

I agree here, we started at 4. Next campaign will start at 1, but the whole issue will be moot by that point since we will be using a store bought module.


Party comp is as follows all 8th currently except for the bard
Dwarf priest of Desna
Human Ranger, archery specialized
Half elf fighter, 2h
Elf wizard, took evocation as opposed
7th level npc bard

We are getting destroyed every other session or so. Is this normal? So far we've seen encounters like a band of ogres and assorted other monsters with a goblin ranger riding a black dragon in a ball of darkness.

Some sort of grappling monster who was also in a ball of darkness, but who had a swallow whole attack in addition to 8ish melee attacks which all hit on anyone it grappled.

A series of monsters encountered in a lair, which was partly composed of members who had blind sense and kept an obscuring mist up while casting some manner of lightning spell through the mist at party members.

This is in addition to many encounters using the time honored tradition of invisible casters using summoning.

These encounters are... tedious. They seem to be crafted to frustrate players and ensure that everyone power games (mix/maxes everything for DPR) next re roll to ensure this situation isn't as frustrating. I haven't played in a D&D campaign for some years but I just don't remember it being this frustrating. Attempts to strategise seem to fall into failure and disarray, the general feeling of the campaign is pretty well hopeless. Players (including me) have adopted the "I really don't care all that much" attitude about their character. Everyone is dropped to under 0HP pretty routinely, but the DM swaps off attacks as soon as someone drops so as not to kill us. I'm not sure if this is mercy, or a lack of it. The poor cleric is only a jogging bandaid, since the amount of damage we take in outstrips his healing (and our hit points) very quickly.

An average encounter seems to ensure at least one character is dropped under 0. We run a lot. I know a portion of the adventure is converted from either 3 or 3.5, but really?

Is this really how it's supposed to roll in campaigns? I mean is this sort of thing pretty standard? I took Die Hard on my ranger, every fiber of the traditional player in e screams "wasted feat" but in this thing it seems... appropriate.

How do you deal with all this crap without dying? How do you decipher all these encounters ahead of time? I feel like it would be easy if we had information on the encounters ahead of time but our divination capability for this sort of thing seems sub par.

Sessions feel a lot like failure at this point.


leo1925 wrote:

No you weren't.

It goes 2d6->3d6->4d6->6d6->8d6->12d6.

Is there a source for this?


HalfOrcHeavyMetal wrote:

I'm playing a Half-Orc Skirmisher/Beast Master Ranger, Two-Weapon-Fighting style, and I'm having an absolute ball. The Skirmisher allows you to play a Ranger without having a religious or spiritual bent to the class, and the tricks a Skirmisher can pull off can be very advantageous.

While, yes, the Spells are always useful at higher levels, the Skirmisher is never tied down by spell components or having to use his hands or voice to use his abilities.

And no Ranger should ever have a Wisdom lower than 12, just pays to have a bonus of some kind into that stat, given the general feel and purpose of the class, although an Urban Ranger could possibly get by with just a 10 and a higher Charisma/Intelligence score.

Even when my ranger was only level 4 the spellcasting was awesome. I'm the most effective combat character in the party when I can full attack. Magical knack trait and an extend rod mean at level 4 my longstrider was up for 6 hours. Gravity bow and lead blades have been great. Level 2 spells bring extended scent as well as other tricks. level 3 spells bring you 18 hours of darkvision and instant enemy which should be a 6 point bonus to hit and damage on BBEG if you focused on one FE.

IMO, ranger spells own, and lend huge versatility.


The greatsword (2d6) shows a step up of 2d6 to 3d6 in the core rules, but there is no segment for 3d6 to go up. This happened last night on my human ranger, I assumed 4d6, was I wrong?


Scipion del Ferro wrote:

Personally I would go with a short bow. It saves you feats, and you can add what strength mod you have with a composite. Also you cannot forget Precise Shot, dealing with a -8 from shooting past your friend in a corridor while they fight something will murder your helpfulness. After 3rd level you are just adding icing to the cake.

1 Point Blank Shot
3 Precise Shot
5 Rapid Shot
7 Many Shot
9 Deadly Aim
11 W. Foc

Though if you really want to do the whole mounted archery thing you might want;

1 Point Blank Shot
3 Precise Shot
5 Mounted Combat
7 Mounted Archery

But if you're fighting in a city mostly is a mount really going to be viable/appropriate?

Actually, why do you need mounted combat and mounted archery at all? Core rulebook specifically says you're able to make a full attack from a mount that makes a move action during the turn anyway (no penalty). It's only if the mount takes a double move that it becomes a -4 penalty, and a run is -8. It's a pretty big benefit just to get the free single move (at mounts speed) & full attack action anyway. I'd just stick with gaining more archery feats personally, how often are you really going to need to halve the penalty to the faster movement shots?


Having played this for a number of levels now I have to say it isn't overpowered. Not nearly as much as deadly aim is. The average longbow damage is 4.5, this takes it to 7 but you lose a whole round of firing just to cast it. If you're lucky you get a surprise round to cast it and it's nice to have.

Instant enemy was also mentioned, but you need to remember you have to be level 11 (with 16 wisdom) or 12 just to get it and you'll also need all your class levels in ranger. The bonus can be really nice though, especially if you stacked all your FE bonus into one strong enemy type (Dragon / Evil Outsider / DMs favorite thing), By 12th level every single class has something we can point to and call overpowered (not you, rogues).


leo1925 wrote:
When i use both of those feats do i get the extra damage of deadly aim on both arrows or not?

My DM has stated that Deadly Aim "sounds like precision, and is therefor precision damage". Is there any official rule I can use which defines precision damage so I can have my deadly aim damage doubled on this?