Everyone has seen the Scarface shirts and the mythology built around the character in hip hop culture. How many remember this scene and its message?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The message being that the political atmosphere in Cuba didn't allow a legitimate businessman like Tony Montana create jobs?
meatrace & thejeff: Its about his experience with communism in Cuba. Most people unless they are educated on the matter or have lived in that environment know little about it.
Nothing more than that.
Or that 80s filmmakers didn't like communism? Or Castro?
Oliver Stone? Didn't he just do a documentary about Castro and how awesome he is?
Or was that Brian DePalma?
It was Stone. Funny that huh?
|
Aren't we just being shown that Montana is a chancer who tell any kind of self-justifying story, true or not, to improve his chances and get ahead.
I think the arrogant, self-regarding, lying elements of Montana's personality have been fully appreciated by many of the artists wish to emulate the character.
The entire idea that having a hard upbringing justifies horrendous behaviour has definitely been embraced by some.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What's even better than that, Citizen Geraint, is that Citizen Aretas just finished arguing in other threads that gang members should be stripped of their civil rights.
No los quieremos! No los necesitamos! (Apologies for spelling, Spanish-speakers)
Castro gives him what he wants and he STILL complains!
What's even better than that, Citizen Geraint, is that Citizen Aretas just finished arguing in other threads that gang members should be stripped of their civil rights.
No los quieremos! No los necesitamos! (Apologies for spelling, Spanish-speakers)
Castro gives him what he wants and he STILL complains!
Thank you for pointing out the irony, Trotsky Redbeard. That was the first thing that came to mind when I read the OP.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Considering most movie makers, and for that matter people, in the 80's (or today) can't even define Communism properly, I wouldn't take a lot of stock in any scene from an American movie when it comes to Communism.
Most of them aren't even aware of the existence of Anarcho/Libertarian Communism. They only know of Stalinism/Maoism/Dictatorial Communism and assume all Communism is like that.
State Communism was always a temporary step in Marxist political theory.
Social Democracy into Socialism into State Communism into Stateless Communism.
That was the original goal. We just have a habit of tripping over the State Communism portion because, unfortunately, the perfect Communist leader is the kind of person who'd never aspire to leadership anyway.
The average westerners understanding of political theory is embarrassing.
For example, did you know there are people who believe Communism and Democracy are inherently opposed? I've met people who don't even realize that Communism is an economic system and Democracy is a governance system and both can exist at the same time in the same society.
Most of them aren't even aware of the existence of Anarcho/Libertarian Communism. They only know of Stalinism/Maoism/Dictatorial Communism and assume all Communism is like that.
State Communism was always a temporary step in Marxist political theory.
Social Democracy into Socialism into State Communism into Stateless Communism.
The average westerners understanding of political theory is embarrassing.
For example, did you know there are people who believe Communism and Democracy are inherently opposed? I've met people who don't even realize that Communism is an economic system and Democracy is a governance system and both can exist at the same time in the same society.
My professor in my Social Science class this quarter labels Stalinism/Maoism as 'Socialism in Drag.' The remark has stuck with me.
Agreed with your remarks concerning Communism & Democracy. Those are the same folks who believe that Democracy & Capitalism works effectively in practice, but when theory is applied, they are actually antagonistic toward each other.
But shhhhh! That's not in the public grade school indoctrination syllabus.
Capitalism's inherently negative effect on Democracy can be mitigated using the elimination of private donations to political campaigns.
Sure, corporations can still backdoor their influence with hiring former government employees for "services rendered" while in office, but at least it won't be open, over-the-counter bribery like the US has now.
Even in Canada, where no one person can give more than 200 dollars to a political campaign, it still leads to a massive funding divide between our 4 or 5 major political parties.
Now imagine a world where we had very small publicly funded campaigns, and we replaced TV adds with DOZENS of political debates. Each debate with a specific subject (like "The immigration debate", "the war debate.", etc) with questions SENT IN BY CITIZENS.
A man can dream.
What's even better than that, Citizen Geraint, is that Citizen Aretas just finished arguing in other threads that gang members should be stripped of their civil rights.
No los quieremos! No los necesitamos! (Apologies for spelling, Spanish-speakers)
Castro gives him what he wants and he STILL complains!
I asserted that gang members should be treated like domestic terrorists. Chicago needs harsh measures to destroy the gangs, if that includes violating some of their civil rights then I'm good with that.
The government should go after them the same way they did/do the Mob.The only argument that occured was someone accused me of being a racist.
Why does this have to go back to me from another post from an entirely different topic???
The point of the clip was what he was describing was true in communist lands. Im not talking about his upbringing or what he did in Cuba.
My Polish friends who grew up under communism told me that an operator would chime in on a phone conversation and say "your conversation is being controlled." Pretty oppressive stuff.
Considering most movie makers, and for that matter people, in the 80's (or today) can't even define Communism properly, I wouldn't take a lot of stock in any scene from an American movie when it comes to Communism.
Most of them aren't even aware of the existence of Anarcho/Libertarian Communism. They only know of Stalinism/Maoism/Dictatorial Communism and assume all Communism is like that.
State Communism was always a temporary step in Marxist political theory.
Social Democracy into Socialism into State Communism into Stateless Communism.
That was the original goal. We just have a habit of tripping over the State Communism portion because, unfortunately, the perfect Communist leader is the kind of person who'd never aspire to leadership anyway.
The average westerners understanding of political theory is embarrassing.
For example, did you know there are people who believe Communism and Democracy are inherently opposed? I've met people who don't even realize that Communism is an economic system and Democracy is a governance system and both can exist at the same time in the same society.
Where did all the Command style economists go after the U.S.S.R. ceased to exist?
|
|
The point of the clip was what he was describing was true in communist lands. I'm not talking about his upbringing or what he did in Cuba.
Popping into a movie sub-forum to reference a film and show a clip of the film... and you complain when we discuss the film?
What am I learning? Watch out for those Cuban exiles, some of them are horrible, horrible people?
Or do you really regard the words in the film are an excellent precis of the lived experience of Cuban communism? Do you really think that Scarface is an auhoriative source on which to build a thesis about the effect of Cuban communism on peoples' lives?
Really?
"Really?" (Such a played out word, I wish people would just stop using it like that)
Its a telling SCENE, from a MOVIE about Cuban communism. I NEVER proposed that Scarface the 'movie' is an authoritative source. That does not mean you disregard that SCENE from the movie as baseless.
My brother-in-law is not an authoritative source which to build a thesis about the effect of Polish communism on peoples' lives but considering he lived in Poland during that time I respect what he has to say vs what some out of touch academic has read about.
In all fairness, Citizen Geraint, this thread started in the OTD before it was moved by the moderators.
I asserted that gang members should be treated like domestic terrorists. Chicago needs harsh measures to destroy the gangs, if that includes violating some of their civil rights then I'm good with that.
The government should go after them the same way they did/do the Mob.The only argument that occured was someone accused me of being a racist.
Why does this have to go back to me from another post from an entirely different topic???
If you don't see the connection between Castro's mass deportation of criminals at the beginning of the film and your argument about Chicago's gangs, well, I can't help you.
And finally, do you really think that Scarface is about Cuban communism? I mean, really?
Considering most movie makers, and for that matter people, in the 80's (or today) can't even define Communism properly, I wouldn't take a lot of stock in any scene from an American movie when it comes to Communism.
You should watch Reds, then.
Reagan was a fan.
My brother-in-law is not an authoritative source which to build a thesis about the effect of Polish communism on peoples' lives but considering he lived in Poland during that time I respect what he has to say vs what some out of touch academic has read about.
Right, because your brother-in-law's experiences in Poland are exactly the same as Oliver Stone and Brian dePalma making a movie about Cuba.
Scarface isn't about Cuban Communism. It was about a CUban immigrant becomming a drug kingpin in Miami.
Let's not get ridiculous.
Really?
And about not having sex with columbian drug lords they do NOT like that, apparently.
Hmmm.
I don't remember Scarface all that well. Mostly, I guess, because it wasn't a very good movie.
But, I do like Citizen Aretas's idea of using over-the-top gangster flicks to teach history. For Cuba pre-1959, I'd recommend GF II.
.
Scarface is about the realization of the American Dream.
For a certain definition of the word Dream.
Here's one: [i]Let Dream := >Money, Power, Woman<[/url]
.
I wanted to ask what the political significance of the scene where he tries to pick up the woman by signifying that he likes to eat pussy was, but I got bored looking it.
Come Comrade Anklebiter, lets not be silly. REALLY now. lol.
Don't you girls like ice cream?!?
I like watching girls eat ice cream. Even the communist ones.
I like watching girls eat ice cream. Even the communist ones.
I hate to ask. What kind of ice cream is a communist type?
Don't get high on your own supply.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I like watching girls eat ice cream. Even the communist ones.I hate to ask. What kind of ice cream is a communist type?
The one she's sharing with you.
|
|
"Really?" (Such a played out word, I wish people would just stop using it like that)
What, you mean, according to the actual meaning of the word?
"Played out" (such a tired phrase, I wish people would just stop using it like that)
Or do you not like the use of repeated adverbs for emphasis? It's a pretty common part of speech and those written modes (like message boards) which replicate many features of speech. 'Very', 'completely', 'totally', truly' and many other emphatic adverbs are used in the same way.
Are there any other rhetorical flourishes which you tire of?
|
|
I asserted that gang members should be treated like domestic terrorists. Chicago needs harsh measures to destroy the gangs, if that includes violating some of their civil rights then I'm good with that.
And if you end up being mistaken for a gang member and have your civil rights violated, you'd be OK with that? Because the government and police forces throughout the US never make a mistake, right?
Sorry to derail (though I think this thread has already jumped the tracks repeatedly), but the quoted statement just blows my mind.
EDIT: to put his back on track somewhat ...
While not a great movie, I have to admit I did like Scarface when it came out. And aside from the opening of the movie where Castro's deportation of criminals from Cuba to the US served as a backstory for the main character, the film had nothing to do with communism in Cuba but rather was a gangster film, no more no less.
"Really?" (Such a played out word, I wish people would just stop using it like that)What, you mean, according to the actual meaning of the word?
"Played out" (such a tired phrase, I wish people would just stop using it like that)
Or do you not like the use of repeated adverbs for emphasis? It's a pretty common part of speech and those written modes (like message boards) which replicate many features of speech. 'Very', 'completely', 'totally', truly' and many other emphatic adverbs are used in the same way.
Are there any other rhetorical flourishes which you tire of?
I enjoy how you put out a premise then assert that I believe/said it, then end you're rant by telling me "Really?"
I'm also tired of hearing the BAAAA, BAAAA sheep sounds jumping off the message boards while reading some posts & replies. ;)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
O RLY? = worse than "Really?"
I'm also tired of hearing the BAAAA, BAAAA sheep sounds jumping off the message boards while reading some posts & replies. ;)Wow ... just wow. People disagree with your point of view and they are therefore sheep. I have nothing to say to this that would not get the mods pissed at me.
Well you asked what else so there you have it. I'm not talking about you, no need to get pissy.
I have no problem with disagreement & debate. I do have a problem with what you did in regards to setting me up for a "REALLY?"
Anyway man, take it easy! Roll some 20's!!
|
|
I have no problem with disagreement & debate. I do have a problem with what you did in regards to setting me up for a "REALLY?"
And asking for a clarification based off your previous statements is setting you up for a "Really?" ... best you take a look at your response rather than the person asking you about your stance.
Seriously?
"You know what capitalism is? Gettin' f!*%ed!"
Two can play this game.
But why would they?
Well, I was looking for the quote where he says he can't even have a f*%+ing baby because Michelle Pfeiffer womb is so polluted, but then I found that one.
What? It keeps me amused since I never have sex or fun, like those Papau New Guineans.
Speaking of which...
Trickle Down Economics:
A nice way of describing a system where the rich urinate all over the masses from their golden towers.
I bet YOU thought the "trickle" was money.