Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.
Chapter 1: The Bastards of Erebus
Chapter 2: The Sixfold Trial
Chapter 3: What Lies in Dust
Chapter 4: The Infernal Syndrome
Chapter 5: Mother of Flies
Chapter 6: The Twice-Damned Prince
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Could anyone stop you?
Jane Fonda might. She keeps suing me whenever I dress up like her in public. 'Course I also have a tendency to issue "press releases" that contain some rather upsetting material. :P
Oh, and I can't drive, so that might be a problem. If it was a forklift, maybe we'd be cool, but driving a real car is not a skill I ever picked up.
Oh, and I can't drive, so that might be a problem. If it was a forklift, maybe we'd be cool, but driving a real car is not a skill I ever picked up.
Just so long as you don't drive like this guy:
http://failblog.org/2009/11/05/epic-fail-forklift-driver-fail/
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Question regarding Zol's stat block. Why is his CMB +12? Shouldn't monks have the Maneuver Training ability where they add their monk level instead of their base attack bonus to calculate CMB? So his CMB should be 4 (Str) + 1 (Barbarian BAB) + 10 (Monk levels) = +15 (plus weapon focus unarmed strike, technically). Also, how is his CMD 33? Maybe I'm missing something... but CMD = 10 + 4 (Str) + 3 (Dex) + 8 (BAB) = +25.
Question regarding Zol's stat block. Why is his CMB +12? Shouldn't monks have the Maneuver Training ability where they add their monk level instead of their base attack bonus to calculate CMB? So his CMB should be 4 (Str) + 1 (Barbarian BAB) + 10 (Monk levels) = +15 (plus weapon focus unarmed strike, technically). Also, how is his CMD 33? Maybe I'm missing something... but CMD = 10 + 4 (Str) + 3 (Dex) + 8 (BAB) = +25.
You have to add monk bonuses(monk AC and wisdom) and dodge bonuses to CMD too. Also some from his items I believe.
But the CMB seems to be off, yeah.
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You have to add monk bonuses(monk AC and wisdom) and dodge bonuses to CMD too. Also some from his items I believe.But the CMB seems to be off, yeah.
Oh... you're right! I guess I missed that part about CMD. That means his CMD = 10 + 4 (Str) + 3 (Dex) + 2 (Monk) + 1 (dodge) + 2 (Wis) + 2 (deflection) + 8 (BAB) = +32. Where's the missing 1?
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When someone attempts to use a teleportation effect, he must make a DC 20 Caster Level check. Failure by 5 or fewer indicates that the spell doesn’t work, but is not expended. Failure by 5 or more indicates that the spell malfunctions.
5 or fewer = no worky
5 or more = malfunctionSo if they fail by 5... which is it? :)
Creative Director
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When someone attempts to use a teleportation effect, he must make a DC 20 Caster Level check. Failure by 5 or fewer indicates that the spell doesn’t work, but is not expended. Failure by 5 or more indicates that the spell malfunctions.5 or fewer = no worky
5 or more = malfunctionSo if they fail by 5... which is it? :)
CL check of 20 or greater: Spell works
CL check of 16–19: Spell doesn't workCL check of 15 or less: Spell doesn't work AND malfunctions.
In room F27, I think there is some placeholder text.
I couldn't actually find what the effect was. Did I miss something?
Oh... you're right! I guess I missed that part about CMD. That means his CMD = 10 + 4 (Str) + 3 (Dex) + 2 (Monk) + 1 (dodge) + 2 (Wis) + 2 (deflection) + 8 (BAB) = +32. Where's the missing 1?
It is +3 for Monk, one of the BAB is from Barbarian levels. So, it should be:
CMD = 10 + 4 (Str) + 3 (Dex) + 10 (Monk) + 1 (dodge) + 2 (Wis) + 2 (deflection) + 1 (non-monk BAB) = +33
Hm... but a level 10 monk has a BAB +7 and a level 1 barbarian has a BAB +1, so a total +8.
Right, but a monk uses its monk levels instead of BAB for CMB at 3rd level. So it is 10 + 1.
Does that also apply to CMD?
Right, but a monk uses its monk levels instead of BAB for CMB at 3rd level. So it is 10 + 1.
I don't think it does. You'd have to take the Defensive Combat Training feat for that. But I also get 32 like you wrote, monk AC bonus included. Unless they calculated bracers of armor too, but I haven't found anywhere that says they add to CMD.
I don't think it does. You'd have to take the Defensive Combat Training feat for that. But I also get 32 like you wrote, monk AC bonus included. Unless they calculated bracers of armor too, but I haven't found anywhere that says they add to CMD.Does that also apply to CMD?
Right, but a monk uses its monk levels instead of BAB for CMB at 3rd level. So it is 10 + 1.
Yup, I agree. I looked at it too quickly. I come up with 32 as well.
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Creative Director
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The illustration of Crosael (page 28) looks absolutely nothing like her picture in The Sixfold Trial. I liked the old Crosael more... she reminded me of a scheming old spinster.
Correct. That was frustrating for me; the actual version that came in first actually looked like a WotC style tiefling with big brow horns. We did what we could at the 11th hour before shipping to the printer to work with the artist to adjust. For what it's worth, I MUCH prefer the look in this adventure to her illustration in "Sixfold Trial."
Also, a question/comment; the "devil engine" of this adventure is infinitely more intricate and complex than the Thassilonian "demon engine" from Hook Mountain Massacre (the one that powers the enormous skull dam). From a metagame perspective, I understand the disparity; the dam was a fairly small part of Hook Mountain, whereas the Nessian Spiral was nearly the entire adventure here. That said, I'm wondering if there is any in-game explanation for the differences.
For example, it was almost ridiculously easy to walk into the skull dam's inner workings, disrupt the demon-engine, and essentially sabotage the entire place. The Nessian Spiral, on the other hand, is elaborately protected.
That's basically the difference between an infernal engine that's been abandoned for close to 10,000 years and one that's only a few decades old and (at least up until the point that the adventure began) was still in full use and being guarded. 10,001 years ago, it would have been a LOT harder to "walk right in" to the dam's inner workings.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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First, is it intentional that there's 2 +2 mithral tridents in the adventure? (one as a reward for one of the sidequests, and the other in room F27 (this one is +2 returning)). I get that mithral counts as silver which is useful against devil and vampires, but 2 magic tridents in a non-aquatic, non-gladiator themed adventure seems a bit much.)
Also, Zol's statblock seems to be missing several monk abilities. I don't see a mention of wholeness of body or options for his stunning fist (fatigued or sickened, in addition to stunned). While these are technically part of the stunning fist class ability, with no choice to make different selections, having them listed in the statblock would be a useful reference to remind the GM that these are options for Zol to use in combat, and not just stunning.
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First, is it intentional that there's 2 +2 mithral tridents in the adventure? (one as a reward for one of the sidequests, and the other in room F27 (this one is +2 returning)). I get that mithral counts as silver which is useful against devil and vampires, but 2 magic tridents in a non-aquatic, non-gladiator themed adventure seems a bit much.)
Also, Zol's statblock seems to be missing several monk abilities. I don't see a mention of wholeness of body or options for his stunning fist (fatigued or sickened, in addition to stunned). While these are technically part of the stunning fist class ability, with no choice to make different selections, having them listed in the statblock would be a useful reference to remind the GM that these are options for Zol to use in combat, and not just stunning.
The AP is a bit cash poor so my players won't mind... remember mithral weapons are at +500gp/pound
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Creative Director
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First, is it intentional that there's 2 +2 mithral tridents in the adventure? (one as a reward for one of the sidequests, and the other in room F27 (this one is +2 returning)). I get that mithral counts as silver which is useful against devil and vampires, but 2 magic tridents in a non-aquatic, non-gladiator themed adventure seems a bit much.)
It's intentional, yes. Although you should absolutely consider changing one or both of those tridents into something that the fighters/whoever in your group uses weapons and needs one can use.
Tridents are devilish-themed weapons, which is why there's more than one in the AP, in any case.
Liebdaga's attack bonuses are all 1 point too high--the negative levels are accounted for, but not his -1 for being Large. His primary attacks should be at +14 and his secondary attacks at +9.
Of the four monsters in the Bestiary section, two of them are built as two-weapon fighters, and neither actually has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat! Their attack bonuses include no penalties, and in fact the Adukhait is treated as if it has the Improved TWF feat for free! With their feats as written, they should have the following attack bonuses:
Adukhait: Masterwork kukri +11/+6 and masterwork kukri +7
Uniila: +1 dagger +13/+8 and 3 +1 daggers +9
And that's not very impressive. In order to get more acceptable attack bonuses, feats need to be replaced. Let's say, replace the adukhait's Combat Reflexes and Lightning Reflexes for TWF and Improved TWF, and the uniila's Lightning Reflexes with Multiweapon Fighting. Now we get:
Adukhait: 2 masterwork kukris +13/+8
Uniila: +1 dagger +15/+10 and 3 +1 daggers +15
On a related note, Zovarue's snakebite attack roll fails to account for its secondary attack penalty, and should be at +10 and lack any Str bonus to damage (where the +3 came from, I do not know). Her gaze DC is also 1 point too low, and should be DC 19.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Of the four monsters in the Bestiary section, two of them are built as two-weapon fighters, and neither actually has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat! Their attack bonuses include no penalties, and in fact the Adukhait is treated as if it has the Improved TWF feat for free! With their feats as written, they should have the following attack bonuses:
Adukhait: Masterwork kukri +11/+6 and masterwork kukri +7
Uniila: +1 dagger +13/+8 and 3 +1 daggers +9
And that's not very impressive. In order to get more acceptable attack bonuses, feats need to be replaced. Let's say, replace the adukhait's Combat Reflexes and Lightning Reflexes for TWF and Improved TWF, and the uniila's Lightning Reflexes with Multiweapon Fighting. Now we get:
Adukhait: 2 masterwork kukris +13/+8
Uniila: +1 dagger +15/+10 and 3 +1 daggers +15
I think that with two bodies and the dual mind ability, the Adhukait probably should have an ability similar to the ettin's Superior Two Weapon fighting, instead of having to use feats.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I noticed a few things on the monsters in the bestiary section also.
1) Adhukait has regeneration 5, but there's no mention of what bypasses the regeneration. Since it's resistant to acid, I'm guessing that it's not the traditional fire and acid - maybe good and fire?
2)The Spartolos has DR 10/bludgeoning, but also has the disjoin ability that when active causes it's DR to rise to 10/bludgeoning. Should the original DR be 5/bludgeoning, or should disjoin raise it to 15 or 20?
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Creative Director
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I noticed a few things on the monsters in the bestiary section also.
1) Adhukait has regeneration 5, but there's no mention of what bypasses the regeneration. Since it's resistant to acid, I'm guessing that it's not the traditional fire and acid - maybe good and fire?
2)The Spartolos has DR 10/bludgeoning, but also has the disjoin ability that when active causes it's DR to rise to 10/bludgeoning. Should the original DR be 5/bludgeoning, or should disjoin raise it to 15 or 20?
I suspect the Adhukait's regeneration should be bypassed by good and fire. And I suspect that the spartolos should have an original DR of 5/bludgeoning.
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Joriavah's initiative is listed as +134. I can only assume she isn't pun-pun in a succubus costume so i'm sure that's not right.
I had to post this to see if this even works. How much power does the Mayor of Westcrown have. Does he have the power to deputize people into the Dotarri?
One question though, could the Mayor actually even do that. It was kind of sudden and I went with it. Just curious if that was right or not. Reading through the later chapter I don't think this will cause much of problem and could be quite interesting in the last part of CoT.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I had to post this to see if this even works. How much power does the Mayor of Westcrown have. Does he have the power to deputize people into the Dotarri?
** spoiler omitted **
I don't know if the mayor's office officially had the power to do that, but considering that he's deputizing them on the day he flees the city and abandons it, I can easily see the Dottari saying it's not a binding action from the mayor, since he abdicated. If you want it to stick and it leads to positive role play encounters, then I'd let it work, but as soon as it becomes and 'easy button' for the PCs, have some existing captain of the Dottari challenge it. That's my 2 cents at least.
I don't know if the mayor's office officially had the power to do that, but considering that he's deputizing them on the day he flees the city and abandons it, I can easily see the Dottari saying it's not a binding action from the mayor, since he abdicated. If you want it to stick and it leads to positive role play encounters, then I'd let it work, but as soon as it becomes and 'easy button' for the PCs, have some existing captain of the Dottari challenge it. That's my 2 cents at least.I had to post this to see if this even works. How much power does the Mayor of Westcrown have. Does he have the power to deputize people into the Dotarri?
** spoiler omitted **
That was my thinking when I let the player do. I thought it was pretty clever and I want to reward that type of play but if it goes out of hand it can be stripped away easy enough.
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Creative Director
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The situation facing Westcrown in this adventure is chaotic enough that "deputizing" the PCs might not really have much of an effect, even if it WERE legally done. The Mayor DOES have that power, though, although it's not a permanent deputization until the paperwork with the national government is filed and signed in triplicate.
The situation facing Westcrown in this adventure is chaotic enough that "deputizing" the PCs might not really have much of an effect, even if it WERE legally done. The Mayor DOES have that power, though, although it's not a permanent deputization until the paperwork with the national government is filed and signed in triplicate.
Works good for me. Thanks
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The situation facing Westcrown in this adventure is chaotic enough that "deputizing" the PCs might not really have much of an effect, even if it WERE legally done. The Mayor DOES have that power, though, although it's not a permanent deputization until the paperwork with the national government is filed and signed in triplicate.
I've been very carefully illustrating how bureaucratic everything is in Cheliax. Had one of the PCs mentors be arrested for operating a school without the proper license. Things escalated from their...
They had to deal with the Justice system, which requires hiring a cleric of Asmodeus to study th law. By paying him enough, he will find, or have the temple write up, exemptions and ameliorating circumstances to just about any case (except forging, demon consorting).
If you want to motivate PCs into reforming a city, there is nothing betetr than making them hate bureaucracy. :D
I think I've found an error in the adhukait stat-block - there's no INT score listed.
I think I've found an error in the adhukait stat-block - there's no INT score listed.
My PDF lists a 13 Int, don't have my print copy on me to check that.
Liebdaga's poison and disease. I'm assuming their DC, length and amount of ability damage goes down due to negative levels but I can't seem to find that info in the write-up. Or he gets to keep those as is despite his negative levels?
It's still a relatively high DC and damage. 10+1/2 his HD+his con mod for the DC, same disease and poison listed in the Pit Fiend write up in the bestiary. He's still tough!
I think I've found an error in the adhukait stat-block - there's no INT score listed.My PDF lists a 13 Int, don't have my print copy on me to check that.
Thanks, my print-copy doesn't even list an INT.
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Just noticed this typo:
Citadel Vraid owes its defensibility more to the ruggedness of the Menador Mountains
As per the Guide to Korvosa and many others, Citadel Vraid is located in the Mindspin Mountains. The Menador Mountains are found much further south, on the borders of Cheliax, Nidal, and Molthune.
Quick question ...
Once the party encounters:
... how soon after that do they finally have the big run in with:
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Quick question ...
Once the party encounters:
** spoiler omitted **... how soon after that do they finally have the big run in with:
** spoiler omitted **
There's a lot of stuff the party will go through between running into the first bad guy and the second bad guy in your question. The party I run had to rest between them.