I made a Dragonslayer Prestige Class


Homebrew and House Rules


And I would really appreciate some feedback. Here is a link to the PrC from my google drive.
I used the Dragonslayer from the 3.5 Draconomicon as a base for the class, and the Dragonslayer Kit from the old Council of Wyrms AD&D 2nd Edition books for more inspiration. I also tried to give abilities and options that would definitely be useful against dragons, but maybe also against other big nasty monsters.

Some of the changes I made were making the +1 spellcaster level happen on even numbered levels. Overall that means at level 10, you don't lose any spell caster levels compared to the original version from 3.5, but you won't be taking it for free martial weapons, heavy armor, and no spellcasting loss.

With the Dragonslayer Talents, I tried to give enough options for creating your own flavor of dragonslayer. So if you wanted to use a shield and be super defensive, you have options, but if you want to be a straight up dragon murderer you'll also be able to do that.

Things I struggled with are the damage bonus vs bane (dragons) ability, and armored evasion. I originally had bane (dragons) as a 1st level ability instead of the damage bonus, but decided to keep it the same as it was in 3.5 and have bane (dragons) be an optional Dragonslayer Talent (with Improved Dragonbane later) so as to not infringe upon Inquisitors too much. Armored Evasion seems like something someone would learn eventually when fighting dragons, but it also seems a little bit too powerful. Hopefully if someone thinks that particular talent is too strong they will just disallow it in their games instead of taking the whole PrC off the table.

Anyways, I would appreciate any and all feedback. I've been wanting to do this PrC for a while now, and I'm excited to hear what you think!


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Goodluck


First error is that the 10th level Save are wrong (there written +3 2 2) buts thats easy fix.

Now a question about [Armored Evasion] is that it only works when wearing Heavy Armor, but the class doesnt offer Proficiency for that: Is that intentional design?

Now Your Mileage May Vary but I not to keen on the [Improved Armored Evasion] granting the same bonus as the normal one, the reason being is Heavy Armor already has a great number of advantages on its and its kind of taking what little thunder the lighter armors have from them. Perhaps it may be better to make the ability grant a bonus based on the armor itself (ie: Enchantment Bonus or half its unmodifed Armor Bonus to AC), since the theme of the ability is using your armor as shield against area-effects. But its only my opinion on that.

Now Capstones arent my forte but this ones seems just a little lackluster, perhaps Im wrong though, but it seems a little bland (and dependin on build, unhelpful). Though I admit Im at a loss for what might be replaced with, something that screams Reckless Bravery perhaps?

Other than that no issues of any note.


I looked at this yesterday and couldn't find the words. I think I have some now. First thing, I am a strong proponent of bringing back prestige classes by making them 3-5 levels instead of 5-10 levels. This could do well as a 5 level class because you really don't have that much material. Mechanical boosts, yes, but not much in the way of class features.

The fluff is fine I think. Instead of simply getting bitten and suddenly gaining a slew of features, you propose that a vampire develops just as other characters do. Thats fine, and supported in literature and cinema. My suggestions is that you make it five levels, offer a gradual increase in strength, speed, charisma, etc, and at each level the vampire chooses a vamp-themed ability. If you situate the requirements for these abilities right, you could encourage the charcater to possibly spread out the levels instead of taking them all at once.


Thanks for pointing out the wrong saves and missing heavy armor proficiency, I can't tell you how many times I looked over that and didn't see them.

I guess the capstone could use some work; it's based off the fighter capstone, but is purposefully powered down because it is a prestige class and you could potentially get it at level 15. I suppose I could give it the increased critical multiplier since it only works on creatures of the dragon type. Would that feel too much like a straight up rip off (fighters are also unable to be disarmed which is purposefully missing from Dracocide).

As for Improved Armored Evasion, Is Armored Evasion OK, and just the Improved version of it too much? Should both get the boot? Shield Protection already gives a boost to Reflex Saves vs AoE's; is there another way to improve defense vs breath weapons by not exposing yourself to them via heavy armor?

Thanks again for the input!


I think a better comparison of Capstones would be Ranger not the Fighter, besides which Ranger seems themed better. A Fighter's Capstone is based on his Weapon, which is stronger than the Ranger's because it's a Controlled aspect (barring the odd circumstance you Choose your weapons; but you can't choose your enemies), so giving it an increase to Critical Multiplier against only is perfectly fine.

Besides most games end by 15 anyways.

The basic version is fine its just the [Improved] version I dislike, thinking it over adding the Armor's Enchantment Bonus to Reflex saves seems like a fair bonus. That way if you want to increase your REF Saves you won't need to use a shield, but if you do then they stack.

...also I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out what Ciaran Barnes is saying.


I am not a fan of the perequisites. They seem a little harsh.

Why do you need Dodge, Iron Will and Power Attack? Without Bonus Feats this takes away all feats a level 5 character has away. Also none of these feats work together or with class features.

Why Acrobatics? His talents/proficencies even show the guy running around in heavy armor. Also as a fighter or Paladin with Int 10 the guy will have no custom skills left.

Class features:

Most are okay and certainely flavorful, but a little more boom would be cool. Some consistent way to keep up competitive damage vs non-dragons.

You could add a line that makes the Dragonbane/Damage Bonus count as Favored Enemy for Feats/Items. Could open up some Ranger stuff for him.

Half of the talents are protecting from breath weapons. Who would pick all of those.

Improved Critical, but only vs Dragons is a truly pathetic talent. Either make it normal Improved crit or buff it up. For example by increasing the crit multiplier as well.


Dodge and Iron Will are part of the original Prestige Class prerequisites. I suppose to be able to show your character is strong willed enough to resist dragon fear, and that they can get away from the attacks of reach creatures. I added Power Attack to the list to make it harder for non-fighter-types to get into (humans still have an extra feat to play around with), also, I see people playing full BAB characters taking it a lot of the time, and it's good to show that your character is able to really put some weight behind a swing. As far as the Skills, Knowledge (Arcana) is the, "I know about dragons," Skill; so you'd need that to know enough about their anatomy to take what advantage you could find. Acrobatics because Tumble was a prerequisite, presumably to show, like Dodge, that you can move around inside a reach creature's threatened area (you never want to give a dragon a free attack).

That being said, I'm definitely open to ideas for different prerequisites.

Improved Crit vs Dragons allows for Improved Crit a level early. Do you think also improving the crit multiplier would make it too good? If it would be too good, should I gate it behind level, or another talent?

Not everyone would pick all of the protection from breath weapon talents, but some are better for different party make ups. Like [Protective Aura] (the one that gives everyone +4 to their Reflex Saves) is better if you've got more people in the party that are going in melee with you against the dragon, but if they're slinging spells and arrow from 30' back, then [Shield Protection] and [Armored Evasion] would be better.

Also, what about adding Combat Feats to the list of Talents? Any suggestions for more talents?

I agree about the capstone, I'll definitely change it to a Death Attack of some sort, but which sort? CR 15 Dragons tend to have really high Fortitude saves (+17 to +19 or so). The formula will be 10 + Dragonslayer level (also 10) + an Ability Modifier. Which Ability Modifier, Intelligence or Wisdom? The Ranger uses Wisdom, but being a Dragonslayer doesn't seem very wise. The Assassin's and Slayer's Death Attack/Assassinate use Intelligence, should I use that instead? Both seem kind of lackluster because of the extremely high chance the dragon will save and shrug it off. So, would it be overkill to base the save off of Strength? Seems like it might be a bit much, but what do you guys think?

Edit: Ciaran Barnes is replying to another thread about a Vampire Prestige Class.


Ooh thats embarrassing! I was typing on the notepad instead of in the post box. Sorry!

I thought the same thing about your classes prerequisites. IMO they are one of the things that got people away from prestige classes (that and better base classes).

The skill points are too low. If the character is going dragon hunting, he'll need those extra points. Stealth would be good too.

I think it would be better if you made this a non-spellcasting class or at least gave an alternate option for non-casters. Any character that qualifies for this class has reduced BAB, spellcasting, or both. Upon joining this class, his spellcasting is further reduced.

What you call dragonbane on the chart is listed as damage bonus down below. I encourage you to change this to a favored enemy style feature because at a certain point the attack bonus is more important (especially if the character has gained spellcasting at the cost of BAB). A bonus on knowledge checks would be appropriate too.

I would encourage you to widen the scope of the class. For example you could remove the heavy armor requirements of some of the talents. Maybe a certain dragon hunter is an archer, maybe one is a magus who can't cast in heavy armor yet.

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I'm not a fan of it. The prestige class is almost entirely bonuses up until later levels. And most of those bonuses are too strong. For example, a bonus to damage rolls equal to level feels too strong for an always-on ability, and the class gets DR 3/-- several levels before a barbarian gets it.

I'm not sure why there's such a huge focus on heavy armor when it feels like wearing light armor and being maneuverable should be ideal in dealing with a large mobile creature. Especially when the evasion class feature is always associated with Dexterity-based classes.

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