Nightsbane Quiver

[Clay Clouser]

Nightsbane Quiver
Aura faint evocation; CL 5th
Slot none; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 3 lbs.
Description
This black silk quiver bears a silver star-and-moon motif. It allows up to 20 arrows per day to be transformed into tangible beams of light. When drawn, these arrows produce light as the daylight spell for 5 rounds, after which they disappear. Arrows enhanced in this way prove particularly deadly to light-sensitive and shadowy creatures. Any arrow altered by a nightsbane quiver bypasses the DR of any creature with light sensitivity and counts as a force effect against shadows and wraiths. Arrows placeid in this quiver retain any magical effect already placed on them and lose any benefit if fired by someone other than the owner of the quiver.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, daylight; Cost 8,000 gp

[Patrick Renie]

Good idea, well executed rules text, and the proper fail-safes have been included.

keep

[Russ Morrissey]

Seems mechanically OK, but I don't personally find it very exciting.

For me this is a weak reject.

[Judy Bauer]

I really like the dramatic mental image this conjures up. And the copy is pretty clean and would be easy to work with.

Keep.

[Scott Fernandez]

Simple concept, evocative imagery, well defined game niche. Congratulations Clay I had a feeling you'd get in this year. I have a feeling these will be very popular with the undead hunting rangers, inquisitors, and slayers.

--Vrock Solid

[Clay Clouser]

I don't have any words right now. I really appreciate this chance.

[Mike Welham]

Congratulations on making it into the top 32! It took a little while for this one to grow on me (I think "placeid" initially put me out), but I liked the concept too much to let my initial impressions count against it.

Best of luck in the monster round!

[Clay Clouser]

I have no idea how that made it through my edits. I'm thinking that I accidently hit a key after copy pasting it. When I saw that during voting I cried a little.

[Matt Morris]

Great work. Loved your item during voting. This is a quiver that I could see my archers buying. Clear concept and execution. Kudos!

[Garrett Guillotte]

Out of the quivers I saw during voting, I liked this one the best. While it didn't make my like/keep lists, I did vote for it often.

Vrock hit the parts I liked; my biggest concern was the potential to break what little economy there is around arrows for its owner, as there's no indication the arrows converted by the quiver expire over time. A week of shoving 20 arrows/day into it gives me 140 presumably weightless arrows. Making the arrows unrecoverable if fired in this state is a nice limit, however.

Looking forward to your monster entry! Good luck, and congratulations!

[Monica Marlowe]

Congratulations and Good Luck in the next round!

[frank gori]

I suspect you got extra points due to the number of top 100 shadow items this year! But seriously this was in my top 32 if I recall correctly and it was well deserved. Congrats and good luck in the next round.

[Treppa]

This item would be a great boon for those fighting creatures which can be a real PITA for regular weapons.

Remember to italicize spells everywhere and to define terms like 'owner' in the context of this item - somebody who made it, bought it, recovered it as treasure and has carried it for x days...?

Can't wait to see your monster. Good luck!

[Steven Helt]

Clay is a personal friend of mine and in my weekly gaming group. He's one of the guys, along with Tyler Cowart, trying to get more activity for the Pathfinder Society up and running.

So..I just wanna say the quiver is great. It's cinematic, and practical when confronted by drow and derro in the dark places of the world. Or for combating the negative effects of crappy human vision.

Well done, Clay. Get to work on that monster!

[Sean McGowan]

I liked this one a lot! Not in my top 32, but probably just slightly outside there. Very evocative, both in imagery (shades of Hank the Ranger from the old D&D cartoon...) and an effect that's both wide-ranging and nicely limited. (I like that you don't have it overcome any specific DR, but just supersede all DR for creatures with a certain weakness.) Very well done. Welcome aboard.

[Jason Sonia]

Love this item.

[Set]

Quivers, scabbards, sheaths, whetstones, all fertile ground to cover with wondrous items (kind of allowing one to throw a magic weapon property onto a wondrous item). As far as 'design spaces' go, this one is far less explored than cloaks and gloves, so great work expanding into this territory!

[Lucus Palosaari]

While it is in no way actually related to this, I read the description and instantly thought of the bow used by Hank the Ranger.

We'll go with that being a good thing ;-)

[Brian L Clark]

Very nice, solid concept. It was not seeing items like this one during the voting that gave me a false sense of confidence.

You have managed to make a commonly used item that adds efficiency to exploration and damage to a specific attack against two specific categories of enemy.

I understand why you needed to target light sensitivity to bypass damage reduction, but that particular rule is generally not relevant to damage, so it feels a little like an arbitrary mechanical effect, however consistent it is with the theme.

Still, since there's no "radiant" energy type, you didn't have many options, mechanically for doing "light" damage, so this is a pretty innovative solution.

Congratulations on making a "must-have" item for the dungeon crawl.

[Nicos]

It might not be the ubercool item but its mechanic is very solid.

I do have a doubt, how to determine who is the owner of the quiver?

[Kryzbyn]

Wow, that is nice. Good job!

[Jeff Lee]

Solid item that made my Top 32. The quiver fills a particular niche well and is well-written. Congratulations on making the spot, and I look forward to seeing your monster in round 2.

[Kiel Howell]

This was my favorite quiver item and definitely made my keeper list.

The name was cool...the imagery was cool...the drawbacks were perfectly balanced (I wasn't worried about spending a week of shoving 20 arrows/day into it).

Well done...and don't forgo any of the cool in R2!

[Aaron Miller 335]

This is the first time seeing this item for me, I really like it.

[Fern Herold]

I saw this item a number of times, and I frequently downvoted it. Why? Not the typo (which I didn't even notice until reading it just now). It's the "shadows and wraiths" line. Does this item cause arrows to act as force effects for all incorporeal undead? Or shadows and wraiths only? Rules language needs to be precise, and that weird vagueness irks me. My advice to Ixix (Clay?) is to make sure that from this point forward, you're very clear about saying exactly what you mean to say.

Congratulations, and best of luck in Round 2.

[Clay Clouser]

I appreciate the feedback. It is intended for that to only work against shadows and wraiths. Not really sure how I could have clarified that but I'll keep that in mind. As far as shoving 20 arrows a day into it, great catch I never even considered that. I'll have to keep small things like that in mind for later rounds thank you.

[Orthos]

Now that just makes me curious why it's only those two, and not other incorporeal undead such as ghosts, allips, spectres, etc.

[Clay Clouser]

Honestly just trying to keep with the flavor. I never intended the item to be a huge boon against undead so I tried to pick out the creatures I'd originally wanted to target, creatures made mainly of shadow. Sadly there is no shadow subtype or I'd have used it so I had to pick and choose creatures. Ghosts aren't naturally vulnerable to light or described as shadows. The other 2 you mentioned would have been good additions but if I just started listing creatures I felt that would get awkward.

[He'sDeadJim]

Quiver items are difficult to balance IMHO. I like this one. Simple and straight-forward design. Solid writing.

[Christopher Wasko]

I like this item a lot. It oozes flavor and is very cinematic. Well done, looking forward to your monster!

[Avatar-1]

I disagree with Russell on this one. An archer using this quiver instantly increases his rule of cool factor by several notches. The ability to defeat darkness by shooting arrows of light and an appropriate light-sensitivity bane.

There must be some downside I don't see for the very last line: and lose any benefit if fired by someone other than the owner of the quiver. As far as I can tell, this line might actually create more problems than it could potentially solve. Defining the "owner" now becomes an arguable subject.

The flavour text is solid enough, the price is appropriate.

Very well done.

[Curaigh]

Congratulations Clay,

I do not think I ever saw this item in the voting, but it looks like it would have been solid upvotes for me. Clear flavor, good writing (typo excepted). I do have a personal thing about wondrous items that really should be weapons. The last line looks like it addresses a concern the weapon version would not have and feels a little tacked on.

Keep of the flavor and the good writing. Good luck!

[Oceanshieldwolf]

Preety sure I saw this item during voting. Not too bad, and an interesting mechanical aspect. You let a typo get by on "placed" - watch that stuff!!!

I also don't see whether the arrows are light regardless of being fired or not - its not immediately clear. If they can just be pulled out and are light, that is cool!!!

Congratulations, I look forward to a compelling monster.

[Silke]

Ixxix (Clay), congratulations on a great entry! I took all the feedback above and spent 4 hours revising the item to take that into account, make clarifications, and try to limit abuse by players.

- Added quiver capacity limit of 20 arrows
- "A transformed arrow must be stored in the Nightsbane Quiver until used" limits the number of arrows and who can use it
- Confirmed a transformed arrow still does normal damage (e.g. bludgeoning critical type for transformed bludgeoning arrows)
- Better clarified what creatures are specially affected through the help of language taken from "Sunlit Strike" feat
- Specifically called out shadows and vampires because they don't have light blindness, light sensitivity, or sunlight powerlessness universal monster rules

It would be great to hear your take on other people's refinement of your item.
(191 words)

Nightsbane Quiver
Aura faint evocation; CL 5th
Slot none; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 3 lbs.

Description
This black silk quiver bears a silver star-and-moon motif. The quiver has a maximum capacity of 20 arrows. Each arrow placed within is transformed into a tangible beam of light after 24 hours. The arrow retains its damage dice, critical type, and any magical properties already possessed but special materials such as alchemical silver or adamantine are lost. An arrow removed from the quiver before 24 hours has elapsed is unchanged. Once an arrow has been transformed it must remain stored in the quiver until used. When such an arrow is drawn, it produces illumination equivalent to a daylight spell for 5 rounds, after which the arrow fades and disappears.

Arrows altered by a nightsbane quiver automatically bypass any DR light vulnerable creatures might possess and also count as a force effect if those creatures are incorporeal. These luminescent arrows are particularly deadly to shadows, vampires and other creatures vulnerable to light (such as by the light blindness, light sensitivity, or sunlight powerlessness universal monster rules).

Construction Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, daylight; Cost 8,000 gp

[Joel Flank]

I like this item, despite the issues with it. In addition to thinking that the shadows and wraiths only was a bit weird, I was put off by the star and moon motif actually. If the quiver produces daylight effects and harms creatures with light weaknesses, why not have a sun motif? Moonlight isn't what hurts these creatures, sunlight is.

Silke did a good job on how to expand this to include more affected creatures that should be affected by it.

Otherwise, good cinematics, and combination of effects.

[James Casey]

Avatar-1 wrote:

I disagree with Russell on this one. An archer using this quiver instantly increases his rule of cool factor by several notches. The ability to defeat darkness by shooting arrows of light and an appropriate light-sensitivity bane.

There must be some downside I don't see for the very last line: and lose any benefit if fired by someone other than the owner of the quiver. As far as I can tell, this line might actually create more problems than it could potentially solve. Defining the "owner" now becomes an arguable subject.

The flavour text is solid enough, the price is appropriate.

Very well done.

All of you wondered about my wonky mechanics(wearer). Your questions on this item are the exact dilemna I was trying to avoid. I originally went with possessor which might have solved both of our problems Ixxix. I ultimately chose wearer which probably would have worked better for your item than it did for mine.

I also happily thought of Hank the Ranger when encountering your item and as a result upvoted it many many times. Unlike the other cartoon character signature magic item I saw, yours resonated with me in a positive manner. I am a sucker for Rangers and this just really had the "cool" factor for a ranger. Well done!

For those of you interested in the other cartoon character signature item, PM me. I don't want to hurt the feelings of the author unless he has already requested a critique. The other item was NOT from the same cartoon.

[Clay Clouser]

Silke you did a great job with it though the arrows taking 24hrs to change is a bit odd. Joel I can definitely understand that reasoning. My thought behind it was things that bring light to the dark...like my quiver does ;) I put the owner bit on it so that they couldn't be passed out like candy. "Alright team dhampirs ahead everyone take 5 arrows and meet me in the pub in 20."

[Anthony Adam]

Template Fu Review 2014 - Clay Clouser - Nightsbane Quiver

Template Fu boilerplate: I have yet to make Top 32, therefore much of what follows is from someone learning from your item and may include suggestions you might agree with or not. Please consider anything suggested with your critical designer mind and know that nothing here is personal, it is about your item not you. I try to be thorough every year, taking an hour or more per item, so I hope you find something of value in the review that follows.

Name: Ok, I can see where the name came from, but creating daylight, is basically a wickless lantern - your cool power is not being a bane to night and dark, but being a bain to creatures of shadow - I think the name would have resonated more with me if you had tied it more tightly to the cooler effect of the quiver.
I personally found the name to be an almost meme construct, but that is just personal and my naming skills arent the best. I also associate the word bane with bane/slayer weapons which while is tight with your effect, it is kind of over used.
A suggestions that springs to mind, bearing in mind my awful naming skills, "shadow abeyance quiver", avoiding the oft used night and bane words and tying more to the cooler effect and benefit on the arrows. I'm sure you can do better than that, but I hope it illustrates what I am trying to get across.
Template Fu scores you 6/10 on this.

Template Usage: Flawless template, including use of the none; from 5th printing errata. Well done on keeping up with the errata!
You need to double check the weight of existing items - the efficient quiver in the core rules state a quiver weighs 2 lbs and not 3.
Price kind of hits me in the eyes too - 16k pricing puts this up against a lot of +4 permanent while worn bonus items. So the situational benefit against light sensitive creatures is likely to come secondary to those items in my purchasing decisions. As for daylight, by the time I have 16k to spend, my party will likely have casters capable of doing this too.
So I think the price needs to come down a bit - if I am to use a magical quiver, I think I would choose the efficient quiver at one tenth the price of this one. This quiver should be more than the efficient quiver for sure, but not ten times as much I feel, the gap is too wide.
Template Fu scores you 8/10 on this.

Game Balance: The game balance was pretty solid until your last line. As written, it can be interpreted that placing arrows in the quiver halts any duration expenditure on magically enhanced arrows - which could then be argued include your beams of light arrows. This then could be argued to allow between dungeon time to be used to fill the quiver with ready made beams of light, then only needing the normal arrows from another quiver once you have used all your pre-prepared arrows.
I think what you mean is that any arrow can be transformed into a beam of light, but retain any original enchantments. I also think you mean that if a beam arrow is taken by someone other than the quiver owner, then the beam effect is lost - not all enchantments as it currently intimates.
The wording needs a little tweaking I think, I should be able to choose whether to draw a light arrow or leave it as it is. Currently as written, it almost implies arrows are converted when placed in the quiver. So at the point in your text where the sentence starts "When drawn"... ready for this - the preceding period to this statement, remove it and chance the comma after drawn to a period. Now, the conversion takes place when I draw the arrow, not when I place it into the quiver!
Template Fu scores you 7/10 on this.

Cinematics:
Sight - check, unfortunately, my mind goes straight to the ranger from the DnD cartoon series when I read this item. I haven't decided if this is a problem or not yet, but you have an item with a strong visual reaction - and that is very good.
Sound - missed opportunity, does a light arrow make a sound when fired? Or when it hits?
Smell - not applicable to this item.
Taste - not applicable to this item.
Touch - missed opportunity, what does an arrow made of light feel like? Cold? Hot?
Cinematic Summary Hank the Ranger vs light sensitive creatures - I can't shake it and yes, I am sad enough to know the names of the classes in the cartoon >.<. I like that we have an item that produces a strong visual theme in my minds eye.
Template Fu scores you 16/20 on this.

Musings, Meme, and One Step Further:
I think the test could have had one more pass, and I suspect you might have caught the potential game balance issues.
The bow that shoots light / fire arrows is a fantasy meme, which both hurts and helps your item. The meme image is so strong, can be called into your minds eye instantly, but it's Hank - that cartoon has much to answer for, and not just Uni.
What is also good is that, bearing in mind the game balance items, this item is very tight and requires no additional features or powers or effects. This is awesome.
Template Fu scores you 18/20 on this.

Your final score for this item is 55/70, or 79% - A very tight design.