Looks correct to me.
I’m not sure about that. The wording of the feat makes me think maybe only the Str modifier is supposed to be doubled on crit?
So in your example, we’d have (2x4)+6=14.
I’m admittedly newish to the system. You may want to wait for more opinions from more experienced players.
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The wording is indeed slightly ambiguous but I think it very, very likely that the intent is 20 damage.
For what it may be worth, 20 is what Foundry thinks it wants to apply :-)
20 points also seems about right to me in game balance terms. You're going against what is usually the harder Fort save as opposed to AC. And a bog standard martial at L7+ is going to be doing something like 2d12+4+2 = 19. More if they have some damage booster, a property rune, etc.
pauljathome, I like your thinking and observations.
Adding to the case for the result being 20, critical hit rules double all damage as well (except for extra damage only dealt by the crit, such as the Deadly trait). So while this isn’t a critical hit with a strike, doubling the additional damage granted by higher levels of proficiency in Athletics would be in keeping with that same design simplicity.
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Since we're on punishing shove, I'll mention my current experience.
I'm playing a Centaur Animist with the Guardian Dedication making copious use of the Roaring Heart animist feat.
He has done everything that he can to max out his shove.
Roaring Heart is very, very good when facing mooks. Probably a little too good, especially on those occasions that Assurance actually is sufficient to get my "success becomes a crit" shove. But mooks are MEANT to go down quickly so it isn't a huge deal.
He is a quite good gish character. Shoves weaker enemies around, does lots of damage to them (shoving them together so I can Earths Bile a bunch never grows stale :-) :-)).
But against significant opponents he does significantly less damage than the dedicated martials in the group (which is exactly as it should be). And even against the mooks he is doing maybe more total damage but it is spread across multiple targets while the martials are focus firing one bad guy at a time.
And it has so far been pretty rare that the actual "move them 10 ft" part of shove has had a significant impact.
The whole build came together at L6 and we're now L9. And, pretty much as I expected, Roaring Heart is gradually becoming less and less good relatively speaking. Soon the martials will have more and better property runes, they'll get greater striking 3 levels before I get legendary on my athletics. Oh woe is me, whatever will I do when I have to rely mostly on my spells :-) :-) :-) :-)
What I'm saying is that Punishing Shove is a great tool to have in your toolbox and absolutely worth building around. But it is a long way from broken or a "solves all problems" kind of tool,
But if you're building around Punishing Shove the Centaur feat Practiced Brawn is ridiculously good.
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"Practised Brawn is ridiculously good." -- I'll attest to that ... Success = CRIT when doing a (Punishing) Shove is super good.
Good, yes. Super good? I beg to differ.
I saw a Guardian Centaur using this at 3rd level at PFS on Thursday. The Centaur is an expert at Athletics, so he gets STR+2 doubled for the crit equals 12 damage. Using his warhammer to shove, he would get 1d8+4 damage; ave 8.5. But at 4th level he can apply a Striking rune to his weapon. Then the damage is 2d8+4; ave 13.
Yes he gets the shove 10' as well, but you don't always want to move someone 10'. Worse yet, the critical is already factored into the damage. If the Centaur attacks with the warhammer and crits, he gets (2d8+4)*2 damage, which averages to 26 damage. And there's a fort save vs falling prone.
Certainly a usefull tool, but somewhat situational.
Shove someone off the pier, into the water! Cool!
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"Practised Brawn is ridiculously good." -- I'll attest to that ... Success = CRIT when doing a (Punishing) Shove is super good.
Good, yes. Super good? I beg to differ.
I saw a Guardian Centaur using this at 3rd level at PFS on Thursday. The Centaur is an expert at Athletics, so he gets STR+2 doubled for the crit equals 12 damage. Using his warhammer to shove, he would get 1d8+4 damage; ave 8.5. But at 4th level he can apply a Striking rune to his weapon. Then the damage is 2d8+4; ave 13.
Yes he gets the shove 10' as well, but you don't always want to move someone 10'. Worse yet, the critical is already factored into the damage. If the Centaur attacks with the warhammer and crits, he gets (2d8+4)*2 damage, which averages to 26 damage. And there's a fort save vs falling prone.
Certainly a usefull tool, but somewhat situational.
Shove someone off the pier, into the water! Cool!
As for all skills, it is much easier to crit on Athletics than on a Strike.
Also, as shown by some builds floating around, limitations on maneuvers are less strict than those on Strikes because maneuvers are indeed seen as mostly situational, a tactical tool rather than a way to inflict damage.
But guaranteed crit on Punishing Shove inflicts a significant amount of damage.