Overlap with Envoy

[siegfriedliner]

I find it a little weird that Starfinder 2e has two martial charisma based buffers right out the gate and I don't think Pathfinder 2e has 1. This is not a complaint just a observation on the different direction of classes in starfinder to pathfinder,

Obviously the Envoy and Luminary are both "stars" if I wanted to play a vid-game influencer either of them would work thematically. If I wanted to play a non-magical buffer I could play either of them, if wanted to play a face I could play either of them.

So what sets them apart - thematically little it seems, mechanically we have the lead by example and the spotlight mechancs. Both of them are buffs but one is active and the other is more passive.

I was wondering what sort of character concepts work for one but not the other ? So your charismatic captain figure could be either but what could be only an envoy or only a Luminary and why would you pick one over the other ?

[Xenocrat]

There is zero non-magical buffing in the Luminary.

[siegfriedliner]

Fair I meant non-spell caster/ slot but I take your point.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

The difference to me is mostly mechanical - an Envoy is a Martial Skill Monkey, while the Luminary is a Martial Focus Point Caster. Envoys have more damage, more skill actions, more skill feats, and a lot of buffs. Luminaries have more spells, more tricks and illusions, more "every ten minutes" abilities, and a lot of Debuffs and Buffs mixed together.

I think the Luminary playtest could definitely differentiate the two classes a little more by de-emphasizing the martial side of the Luminary and emphasizing the Caster side. Spells are obviously the big difference between the classes- but the Luminary as it exists now has very few spells.

I think an easy way to differentiate between the two classes would be to lean into the razzle dazzle illusionist side of the class. Thematically and flavorfully, I think that's a side of Luminary magic that Envoys don't overlap with at all.

[Don Hastily]

siegfriedliner wrote:

I find it a little weird that Starfinder 2e has two martial charisma based buffers right out the gate and I don't think Pathfinder 2e has 1. This is not a complaint just a observation on the different direction of classes in starfinder to pathfinder,

Obviously the Envoy and Luminary are both "stars" if I wanted to play a vid-game influencer either of them would work thematically. If I wanted to play a non-magical buffer I could play either of them, if wanted to play a face I could play either of them.

So what sets them apart - thematically little it seems, mechanically we have the lead by example and the spotlight mechancs. Both of them are buffs but one is active and the other is more passive.

I was wondering what sort of character concepts work for one but not the other ? So your charismatic captain figure could be either but what could be only an envoy or only a Luminary and why would you pick one over the other ?

Princess Leia is an Envoy but not a Luminary.

(I also think a charismatic captain figure wouldn’t work well as a Luminary)

[Justnobodyfqwl]

I would also say that thematically, Envoys are more "plucky every-man" class. You are a normal person who has feats like "insult person" and "say excuse me as you squeeze past someone" at low levels. You give inspiring speeches and pep talks and battlefield commands. Very much for Han Solo and Peter Quill types.

The Luminary is more explicitly in the Bard space of "performing and visual arts class". But more broadly, it's for performers, creatives, storytellers, public figures, etc. You have an extremely elaborate bag of tricks using magic and technology to achieve your specific creative vision. Your abilities are all heavily encouraged to be specifically flavored around your specialty. You use tricks to even kind of blur the line between fiction and reality, as you do smash cut scene transitions and summon fake special guest star celebrities.

I think that some Luminaries could have been Envoys, but a lot of Envoys can not be Luminaries. But honestly, again, it's mostly a mechanical difference: the developers probably started with the idea of "pop star: the class" and then decided that would be an occult support caster. Since Witchwarpers are debuff casters and Mystics are buffing casters, Luminaries do a little bit of both. Since Envoys are plucky every-men, the Luminary does the opposite and goes over the top performative. Bam, now you have the outline of a class with a mechanical and thematic gimmick built on understood tropes!