Help me make this character work

[thorin001]

This is effectively a dare character.

The basic premise is a dwarf swashbuckler who uses a heavy pick as his weapon.
Swashbuckler must be the primary class, but some multiclassing is fine.
He is a miner, so he really likes his pick. Switching to another weapon for a proper dwarf, like a waraxe, at later levels is a possibility.

Your deviousness is appreciated.

[Mysterious Stranger]

The best way to do this is to use the pick only for the first two levels and then switch to a dwarf war axe Once you get slashing grace with the dwarf war axe you not only get DEX to damage it counts as a one-handed piercing weapon, so it works with all the swashbuckler class abilities. Slashing Grace does not work with picks and getting DEX to damage will be better than the bonus damage from the dwarf FCB. Do not bother taking it since you will not be using the pick past 2nd level.

The big problem is that the dwarven stat adjustments are suboptimal for a swashbuckler. Getting a bonus to CON and WIS is useful, but the penalty to CHA is harsh. Using a dwarf war axe will boost up the damage above what a racial bonus to DEX would give, but you will be slightly behind in your bonus to hit.

[Pizza Lord]

I would suggest taking the Vengeful Heart deed of renown. You will lose the derring-do deed and one other 1st level deed (probably dodging panache, since your Cha is likely to be lower, but maybe it won't be if you max it). This will let you use a samurai's resolve ability, which can let you remove a condition, get two rolls on Fort or Will saves, or remain conscious and stable below 0 hit points.

Since this is a dare, and you character is made on the premise that he wants and prefers to use his heavy pick (not switch it out for the best weapon), I won't suggest changing it to a different weapon. (Now, if there was a musket-pick or a musket-pickaxe, I might suggest taking some gunslinger levels to stack your panache/grit pool).

At 1st level, Swashbuckler's finesse gives you Weapon Finesse with one-handed piercing weapons (heavy pick)

Archetype options could be:
Corsair— You lose nimble, but the Intimidate bonus will offset your racial Cha penalty, and if you have a way (horn of fog) or a party member that can conjure fog, you will be far more effective than opponents in it, since you can see normally out to 10 feet and not worry about concealment like others. Granted this is probably situational.

Courser— The added base speed is good for countering dwarf land speed and the quick access to Spring Attack can be good if you have other front-liners in your party to support, as you can move up to their space and attack and move back with Spring Attack. The added speed is really the main benefit. (I understand this doesn't actually do anything special with the pick, but let's be honest, I don't think a single swashbuckler archetype is built around picks. Maybe I'll make one.)

[TxSam88]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The best way to do this is to use the pick only for the first two levels and then switch to a dwarf war axe Once you get slashing grace with the dwarf war axe you not only get DEX to damage it counts as a one-handed piercing weapon, so it works with all the swashbuckler class abilities.

AON lists the Heavy Pick as a one handed piercing weapon. I see no reason why it won't work with the Swashbuckler abilities.

heavy pick

[Liliyashanina]

Heavy pick is a one handed piercing weapon, so it innately works with swash abilities, it can be made into a finesse weapon via an
effortless lace for a fairly achievable 2.5K price tag.

Since you are useing a low crit but high multiplier weapon, cyclops helm is very useful.

You can totally be a str based swashbuckler.

Like, take a single level dip in steelblood bloodrager and you get bloodrage, heavy armor etc. and still get parry and riposte.

[thorin001]

TxSam88 wrote:

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The best way to do this is to use the pick only for the first two levels and then switch to a dwarf war axe Once you get slashing grace with the dwarf war axe you not only get DEX to damage it counts as a one-handed piercing weapon, so it works with all the swashbuckler class abilities.

AON lists the Heavy Pick as a one handed piercing weapon. I see no reason why it won't work with the Swashbuckler abilities.

heavy pick

It works. The issue is recovery of panache is linked to crits and pick is 20 only crits, 1/3 the number of crits you get from traditional swashbuckler weapons. That is what makes it suboptimal.

[Liliyashanina]

Keen works normally, as long as you do the finishing blow, you get panache back from doing that.

The other way is to go into useing coup de grace, which is a crit, as frequently as possible, but dastardly finish needs sneak attack, which is hard to get for a swash.

Throat slicer would work, but that requires a grapple build (because you need to pin), which in turn shuts down parry and riposte.

The other way to apply pin is via dirty trick master, which is a pretty big feat investment that comes online rather late.

[Mysterious Stranger]

TxSam88 wrote:

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The best way to do this is to use the pick only for the first two levels and then switch to a dwarf war axe Once you get slashing grace with the dwarf war axe you not only get DEX to damage it counts as a one-handed piercing weapon, so it works with all the swashbuckler class abilities.

AON lists the Heavy Pick as a one handed piercing weapon. I see no reason why it won't work with the Swashbuckler abilities.

heavy pick

The pick works with the swashbuckler abilities, but slashing grace does not work with picks. Getting DEX to damage is important for a swashbuckler. Fencing Grace only applies to rapiers so does not work with picks. Dervish Dance is also weapon specific. There really should be a feat that allows DEX to damage with a single onehanded piercing weapon, but there is not.

The precise strike deed is precision damage so does not multiple on a critical hit. The dwarf FCB is +1/4 to the level for precise strike. So, you get +1 at 4th level, which raises to +2 at 8th level. This is also precision damage so again does not multiply on a critical hit. The character will have very few non-precision damage bonuses.

AoN specifies that a dwarf with slashing grace treats the choses slashing weapon as a one handed piercing weapon. That is what allows the dwarf to apply the swashbuckler class features to the axe or any other slashing weapon they took slashing grace for.

[TxSam88]

thorin001 wrote:

TxSam88 wrote:

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The best way to do this is to use the pick only for the first two levels and then switch to a dwarf war axe Once you get slashing grace with the dwarf war axe you not only get DEX to damage it counts as a one-handed piercing weapon, so it works with all the swashbuckler class abilities.

AON lists the Heavy Pick as a one handed piercing weapon. I see no reason why it won't work with the Swashbuckler abilities.

heavy pick

It works. The issue is recovery of panache is linked to crits and pick is 20 only crits, 1/3 the number of crits you get from traditional swashbuckler weapons. That is what makes it suboptimal.

I found that the recovery of Panache was a non issue, the critical thing was to maintain 1 unspent Panache. After a few levels you should be doing enough damage that you're getting the killing blow often enough to keep the panache filled, gaining more on crits is just gravy.

the heavy pick is a devastating weapon - one we almost banned in our games due to it's damage potential. it's entirely feasible to go for a power attack/STR build and get extra damage that way. Since the swashbuckler gets an auto AC boost with the Nimble class feature, dex is less of a critical stat.

[I grok do u]

If you can use the deeds of renown as Pizza Lord suggested, then Vengeful Heart, Hilt Hammer, and Vengeful Soul are all good. Hilt Hammer has a very nice side effect of allowing you to double your precise strike damage on crits with the heavy pick.

If the CHA penalty feels too much, take a level of gunslinger - I'd suggest Bolt Ace archetype - so you can just use your WIS to get grit.

Grabbing a gunslinger dare might be good, if you are running a low panache swashbuckler. It is a dare character, after all.

As others mentioned, using STR rather than trying to get DEX to damage might be a sound approach.

Are there other pertinent aspects we should be looking at, PFS PC, point buy, campaign AP, etc that might help inform a more tuned build?

[Mysterious Stranger]

A swashbucklers panache pool is normally limited to their CHA modifier. The feat extra panache and magic items can raise that. Taking extra panache means you are behind in feats, and magic items are a limited resource. The swashbuckler with a low CHA will have less panache than one with a decent CHA score. Swashbuckler also use their CHA instead of INT to qualify for feats. Charmed Life is also based on the swashbuckler CHA modifier and has no minimum value. So, without a CHA bonus Charmed life is useless. The deed Dodging Panache also uses the CHA modifier (minimum 0). Menacing Swordplay allows the swashbuckler to use a swift action to demoralize. Intimidate is a CHA based skill, so a low CHA makes menacing swordplay weaker. The deed Opportune Parry and Riposte uses a panache point, and you cannot reduce that. In order to get the attack, you have to have 1 panache point left after spending the point to parry. That means you have to start with at least 2 panache points to get the attack. Without a decent CHA score many of the swashbuckler’s class feature are less powerful and even useless.

The deed Bleeding Wound does bleed damage equal to the swashbucklers DEX modifier (minimum 1). Having a low DEX means that dead becomes a lot weaker. Nimble and Dodging Panache only work when wearing light or no armor. So, a STR based swashbuckler is again weakening or rendering useless class features.

[I grok do u]

Mysterious Stranger does a great job laying out the key issue of having a -2 CHA racial modifier, along with its knock-on effects.

Assuming 20 point-buy, it costs 17 points to start a dwarf with a +3 CHA modifier, or 13 to start with +2 and adding a point at level 4 to get to +3. By dipping gunslinger, a dwarf can spend 10 points to have a 12 CHA and 16 WIS which will give a pool of 1 panache and 3 grit (after a level of both classes, of course).

Grit and Panache wrote:

The gunslinger’s grit and the swashbuckler’s panache represent two paths to gain access to the same heroic pool. Characters with both grit and panache class features combine the two resources together into a larger pool of both grit points and panache points.

For purposes of feat prerequisites, a character with the panache class feature satisfies the prerequisites as if she were a grit user, and vice versa. Swashbuckler levels stack with gunslinger levels for the purpose of satisfying Signature Deed's level requirement. For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain panache points in place of grit points, and vice versa.

.

If using Deeds of Renown, a character can trade out deeds like dodging panache that are weaker with lower CHA.

Charmed Life isn't as good with low CHA, obviously, but at least dwarves get a racial bonus on most saves, and the boost to WIS helps Will saves. Gunslinger also gives a bump to Fort. So, I think that overall it's a wash.

The ability to use CHA in place of INT for feat prerequisites is very useful for some builds (especially to get improved combat maneuvers), but can be unnecessary for others. Losing this does reduce options.

Because getting DEX to damage can be difficult for the heavy pickaxe, grabbing enough strength to use Power Attack can help boost damage.
However, the FCB and Slashing Grace do allow battleaxes or waraxes to be used instead and get DEX to damage, so those are more optimized weapons.

Swashbuckler is definitely a class that maxing DEX and CHA is the normal best course, but a dwarf wanting to focus using a heavy pick may be better off diversifying.

[Oli Ironbar]

I grok do u wrote:

Because getting DEX to damage can be difficult for the heavy pickaxe, grabbing enough strength to use Power Attack can help boost damage.

However, the FCB and Slashing Grace do allow battleaxes or waraxes to be used instead and get DEX to damage, so those are more optimized weapons.

Swashbuckler is definitely a...

Be careful combining power attack with Parry and Riposte (or other feats that trade out attack bonus). If you do go strength, strongly consider ways of going Large since you can avoid the penalty for parrying against enemies that outsize you and you will have the reach to riposte them.

If you want to stay with the pickaxe theme, also consider improvised weaponry with the Shikigami Style chain. A large improvised can start at 1d6 or 1d8 so with three feats you can hit with up to a 4d6 weapon. Stack critical specialization and improvised weapon mastery (much debate can ensue how or how not they can stack) and you have 17-20x2 as well.

Edit: metamagic rods are CL 17, so with Shikigami 3, one of them woodshaped into a pickaxe hits as a real +4 weapon (that is, with all the Bypassing DR bonuses).

[Wrong John Silver]

Rock Stepper is a good alternate racial trait, as it lets you make 5' steps in difficult terrain, at the cost of Stonecunning. A swashbuckler can use Rock Stepper far more than Stonecunning.

[thorin001]

What it looks like I will be going with:
20 point build- 12 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 14 Wis, 7 Cha (before race)
lvl 1 Swashbuckler (noble fencer) combat reflexes
lvl 2 Gunslinger (thronewarden)
lvl 3 Swashbuckler weapon focus (hvy pick)
lvl 4 Gunslinger
lvl 5 swashbuckler slashing grace if I can retrain my weapon focus, quickdraw otherwise
lvl 6 Gunslinger if gunslinger and swashbuckler initiative stack, Swashbuckler otherwise
Lvl 7+ Swashbuckler

At the first opportunity retrain WF (pick) to WF (waraxe), but only when I get a new feat so I can go straight to slashing grace

I am keeping stone cunning as a racial trait because the character is a miner and knowing the ground is kind of his thing.

My 2 top traits are glory of old (racial) and reactionary (combat) but selection is not final.

Any final tweaks?