| Tarluk |
I'm sure there's probably some balance reason I'm not quite seeing, but on a surface level it seems odd to me that two smaller one-handed weapons or just claws or jaws alone with a solid Strength modifier could be as good an option, if not better, at breaking shields or piercing heavy resistances than Vicious Swing which is designed specifically for that purpose.
| WatersLethe |
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The reason they're combined is so that they're not utterly boned by resistances. You're already not guaranteed to hit both attacks, so trying to overcome resistance is already punishing as heck. Finally landing both strikes only for the full damage to be eaten to no effect would have people flipping the table. Also, a lot of dual wielders and monks invest heavily in dexterity for various reasons, meaning their strength might not be maxed out, further reducing their peak damage numbers.
Even with the combined damage, I'd still take a big accurate single attack over two combined smaller attacks 10 times out of 10 for overcoming resistance.
| Squark |
The feature is standard on most feats that let you pair strikes (The Ranger's Hunt Prey and Twin Takedown, A spirit Warrior's Overwhelming Combination). It's a nice perk for warriors that might struggle to generate big numbers to overrcome hardness or resistance otherwise, since all of these can be used by Dex based characters.
| Tarluk |
The reason they're combined is so that they're not utterly boned by resistances. You're already not guaranteed to hit both attacks, so trying to overcome resistance is already punishing as heck.
Press Strike rotations are one of the more powerful ways to build Fighter, and they still have to deal with resistances double dipping on their damage. I would think the advantage of Double Slice over that would be more accurate attacks, not necessarily piercing resistances.
Finally landing both strikes only for the full damage to be eaten to no effect would have people flipping the table. Also, a lot of dual wielders and monks invest heavily in dexterity for various reasons, meaning their strength might not be maxed out, further reducing their peak damage numbers.
That does make sense. Though with that in mind, how come Double Slice prevents double dipping on precision damage but *not* Strength, when many Dex-focused classes rely on precision damage to offset lower Strength values?
| Squark |
WatersLethe wrote:The reason they're combined is so that they're not utterly boned by resistances. You're already not guaranteed to hit both attacks, so trying to overcome resistance is already punishing as heck.
Press Strike rotations are one of the more powerful ways to build Fighter, and they still have to deal with resistances double dipping on their damage. I would think the advantage of Double Slice over that would be more accurate attacks, not necessarily piercing resistances.
WatersLethe wrote:That does make sense. Though with that in mind, how come Double Slice prevents double dipping on precision damage but *not* Strength, when many Dex-focused classes rely on precision damage to offset lower Strength values?Finally landing both strikes only for the full damage to be eaten to no effect would have people flipping the table. Also, a lot of dual wielders and monks invest heavily in dexterity for various reasons, meaning their strength might not be maxed out, further reducing their peak damage numbers.
Almost certainly because double slice is a fighter feat, and they were being cautious about it being used by other classes. Rogues who want a dual wielding feat that will let them apply precision damage to both strikes cam pick up Twin Takedown instead.
| Titanium Dragon |
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That does make sense. Though with that in mind, how come Double Slice prevents double dipping on precision damage but *not* Strength, when many Dex-focused classes rely on precision damage to offset lower Strength values?
Because rogues.
A rogue using double slice, even only able to apply the precision damage once, does more damage than a rogue striking twice.
If you could apply it twice, Double Slice would be so good literally every rogue would be stupid not to take it.
| Teridax |
Press Strike rotations are one of the more powerful ways to build Fighter, and they still have to deal with resistances double dipping on their damage. I would think the advantage of Double Slice over that would be more accurate attacks, not necessarily piercing resistances.
I think you and WatersLethe are both correct: Double Slice helps provide more accurate attacks for dual-wielders, and also acts as one of several possible tools to deal better with resistances, even if martial classes don't strictly need those actions either. On the flipside, it also limits burst damage by preventing double-tapping resistances or double-dipping into sneak attack damage or the like, so it makes those actions more consistent both ways.
| Claxon |
Tarluk wrote:That does make sense. Though with that in mind, how come Double Slice prevents double dipping on precision damage but *not* Strength, when many Dex-focused classes rely on precision damage to offset lower Strength values?Because rogues.
A rogue using double slice, even only able to apply the precision damage once, does more damage than a rogue striking twice.
If you could apply it twice, Double Slice would be so good literally every rogue would be stupid not to take it.
Yeah, if Double Slice also allowed for precision damage twice it would probably be too good for Rogues.
Currently, Double Slice is 2 actions for 2 attacks (but the second attack doesn't suffer MAP, though does suffer -2 if not agile). It combines for overcoming resistance, and limits precision damage to once for the combo.
Twin Takedown is a 1 action for two attacks, but requires you to have a hunted prey that you're targeting, combines the damage to overcome resistance. It does allow you to add precision damage twice, but is less accurate than Double Slice and has an action tax of hunting prey as well.
Flurry of Blows is pretty similar to Twin Takedown, but loses the hunted prey requirement in exchange for being limited to unarmed strikes (which can be expanded with monastic weaponry).
Honestly, if you're a rogue looking to get extra attacks in with precision damage, taking the monk dedication might sound attractive. But the restriction on gaining flurry of blows from the dedication make it not very attractive.
It's kind of like Paizo put a lot of thought into keeping rogues from getting too out of hand with sneak attack.