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A constructed pugilist gains Craft (weapons) as a class skill.
This alters the brawler’s class skills.
This is stupid, isn't it? Brawlers get Craft as a class skill anyway, so what's the point of this aside from needlessly threatening compatibility with some other Brawler kits? Seems like there should be errata for this.
2.
She treats attacks with this limb as unarmed strikes that gain all the benefits of the brawler’s unarmed strike class feature.
My question here is, what happens if this is paired with a kit like Exemplar or Venomfist that loses or adulterates the standard Brawler's Unarmed Strike feature? Is it stuck with piddly damage, or does this effectively provide the full feature?
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1.
This is stupid, isn't it? Brawlers get Craft as a class skill anyway, so what's the point of this aside from needlessly threatening compatibility with some other Brawler kits? Seems like there should be errata for this.A constructed pugilist gains Craft (weapons) as a class skill.
This alters the brawler’s class skills.
Technically, this change is unnecessary, but it does emphasize the importance of this particular sub-skill for the archetype (for rebuilding their Constructed Arm feature).
2.She treats attacks with this limb as unarmed strikes that gain all the benefits of the brawler’s unarmed strike class feature.My question here is, what happens if this is paired with a kit like Exemplar or Venomfist that loses or adulterates the standard Brawler's Unarmed Strike feature? Is it stuck with piddly damage, or does this effectively provide the full feature?
Offhand, I'd guess the "Constructed Arm" feature is supposed to modify the "Unarmed Strike" class feature (note that this archetype feature doesn't officially modify or replace any baseline class feature), which would make your question moot.
Unfortunately, we are long past the point when PF1 was supported, so you're not going to get any new official errata or rulings.
Oh, and this is an ARCHETYPE, not a 'kit'...
One reason to include this is because the archetype relies on this skill for a lot of its abilities. By putting in in the archetype like it did means the archetype will not stack with any archetype that remove craft as a class skill. I do not know of any archetypes that do remove craft as a class skill, but the prevents future (at the time the archetype was created) archetype that removes craft as a class skill from working with this archetype.
All characters have an unarmed strike; the brawlers class feature unarmed strike modifies the unarmed strike all characters have. So, if you take an archetype that replaces the unarmed strike class feature your constructed limb does damage as a normal unarmed limb. If the archetype modifies the unarmed strike class feature you use those modifications on the constructed limb.
The starting constructed limb is mainly flavor. This way if you start at 1st level you can still play the class like it was designed to be played. This is like the wizard staring with a spell book.
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Heavens, I'd almost forgotten I'd posted this! Anyway, it is not clear to my that my most important question has been answered:
My question here is, what happens if this is paired with a kit like Exemplar or Venomfist that loses or adulterates the standard Brawler's Unarmed Strike feature? Is it stuck with piddly damage, or does this effectively provide the full feature?
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"Kit" is what the 2nd Edition alternative packages for core classes were called, and what these things put me in mind me of ever since they were introduced - also, I spend a lot of time on a totally-unrelated game wherein the term "Archetype" has a very important and quite different meaning, so I find it less confusing.Oh, and this is an ARCHETYPE, not a 'kit'...
The Exemplar's call to arms feature replaces the Brawler's unarmed strike and close weapon mastery class features, so a Brawler with the Constructed Pugilist and Exemplar archetypes would have no unarmed strike benefits to gain.
A size Medium Brawler with the Constructed Pugilist and Venomfist archetypes would inflict the same unarmed strike damage as a size Small Brawler. Frankly, the difference in damage output between her and a standard Brawler is minor relative to the conditions she could inflict with her venom.
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Heavens, I'd almost forgotten I'd posted this! Anyway, it is not clear to my that my most important question has been answered:
My question here is, what happens if this is paired with a kit like Exemplar or Venomfist that loses or adulterates the standard Brawler's Unarmed Strike feature? Is it stuck with piddly damage, or does this effectively provide the full feature?
The official answer is that there is no official answer, which makes it a GM's call.
Oh, and this is an ARCHETYPE, not a 'kit'..."Kit" is what the 2nd Edition alternative packages for core classes were called, and what these things put me in mind me of ever since they were introduced - also, I spend a lot of time on a totally-unrelated game wherein the term "Archetype" has a very important and quite different meaning, so I find it less confusing.
You really should prioritize terms your audience understands when posting publicly like this...
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A size Medium Brawler with the Constructed Pugilist and Venomfist archetypes would inflict the same unarmed strike damage as a size Small Brawler. Frankly, the difference in damage output between her and a standard Brawler is minor relative to the conditions she could inflict with her venom.
Oh, I quite agree, I just wanted to be sure she wouldn't be stuck with a never-improving 1d3! This is the answer I was looking for, thanks!
One thing to keep in mind is that the Exemplar archetype and the Venomfist archetype are not compatible with each other. Both modify the class feature Unarmed Strike and close weapon mastery. The rules of archetype stacking are clear that archetypes that replace or modify the same class feature cannot be taken on the same character.
Both will stack with the constructed pugilist, but you can only have one of them in combination with the constructed pugilist. How the unarmed strike works is going to depend on which other archetype you take. The exemplar archetype completely replaces unarmed strike. So, the constructed pugilist with the exemplar archetype will do 1d3 damage assuming he is medium size, and the damage will never increase. The venomfist archetype modifies the class feature so it does damage as if it were one size smaller. So, the medium constructed pugilist with the venom fist archetype will start out doing 1d4 damage and increase that damage as he levels up. Since you cannot have both the exemplar and venomfist archetype on the same character the problem of what happens with both archetype is irrelevant.
This is RAW and does not need a developer to say so.
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One thing to keep in mind is that the Exemplar archetype and the Venomfist archetype are not compatible with each other.
I understood that from the outset; if you thought I was hoping to do otherwise, you must have misread me somehow.
The exemplar archetype completely replaces unarmed strike. So, the constructed pugilist with the exemplar archetype will do 1d3 damage assuming he is medium size, and the damage will never increase. The venomfist archetype modifies the class feature so it does damage as if it were one size smaller. So, the medium constructed pugilist with the venom fist archetype will start out doing 1d4 damage and increase that damage as he levels up.
THIS is important! Yes, I WAS planning on just being an Exemplar, but now that this has been made clear to me, Constructed Venomfist is indeed the way to go - especially since my character is a Vishkanya! Perfect!
Whether IHIYC's use of terminology was more or less confusing, he was not doing so on purpose. Regardless, this has already been addressed.
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Whether IHIYC's use of terminology was more or less confusing, he was not doing so on purpose. Regardless, this has already been addressed.
Also, I think context ought to make it obvious that's not what it means in this case; be that as it may, I just realized have something better/more to bring up - a THIRD 'wobbly screw', if you will!:
Vis-a-vis the Flex Limb and Grapnel Arm Modifications: These both allow you to perform combat maneuvers; do they allow you to do so without provoking, without needing to also take the corresponding Improved [Maneuver] feats?
I hope so, because otherwise it would almost amount to a "feat tax" to take them (and the menu is rather limited).
As written, using Flex Limb to perform combat maneuvers will provoke attacks of opportunity because it neither stipulates that it does not provoke nor does it provide reach without Limb Extender.
Using Grapnel Arm, on the other hand, wouldn't provoke attacks of opportunity--at least not for the ranged touch attack, so long as your character otherwise wouldn't provoke (e.g., by attempting this within reach of an enemy threatening him). That said, the Grapple rules state that "if you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold," and if you at some point make a check within an enemy's reach you would then provoke (unless you had the requisite feat/s).
And yes, this all amounts to feat taxes, but at the same time the archetype's Limb Modification selections already steer character creation/progression toward specialization. What stinks more than the feat taxes, IMHO, is that they come on top of having to spend a standard action to activate the modifications discussed above. On top of that, you have even more limitations like "A constructed pugilist who has the vicious spikes limb modification can’t select [the vicious blades limb modification" and vice-versa.
It's a fun idea, but in practice you get fairly dubious benefits--grapnel arm (for a character who focuses on grappling feats) and vicious spikes (the x3 critical multiplier gets nasty, especially with either Improved Critical or the Keen enhancement) are the only really worthwhile ones, in my eyes.
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It's a fun idea, but in practice you get fairly dubious benefits--grapnel arm (for a character who focuses on grappling feats) and vicious spikes (the x3 critical multiplier gets nasty, especially with either Improved Critical or the Keen enhancement) are the only really worthwhile ones, in my eyes.
Well, Spike is the first one I'd be taking; it's essential to my concept!
You're starting to make me wonder if I should retreat to her being an Exemplar, though (or even another class entirely).
Venomfist/Mutagenic Mauler would be a near-ideal alternative, BUT then she'd be stuck fighting with her fist, and I actually don't want her to, I have a very specific mental image of her using a piercing blade.
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Ascetic Style line of feats would let you use a monk weapon with venomfist. Costs 4 feats though, but eventually get scaling damage on the weapon (like getting close weapon mastery back).
TYVM indeed! Frankly, I meant to take Weapon Focus anyway, so the feat investment might not be that unreasonable (after all, Brawlers get Bonus Feats!).
Looking closer, might it be enough just to take that Weapon Focus and that feat? Ascetic Strike would be nice, but Ascetic Form seems underwhelming for this character's purposes, if not outright useless on its own (unless it covers something Ascetic Style isn't sufficient to?).
It really depends on what plans you have for the character in question: how many levels you're looking to invest in, e.g., Venomfist versus Mutagenic Mauler.
With Ascetic Form, at 5th level, your hypothetical character would effectively gain the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for whatever weapon you select for Weapon Focus, Ascetic Style, and Ascetic Form, could use the Knockout ability with it, and it would count as magic. The point being, if this character using a piercing weapon in addition to his unarmed strike is non-negotiable, then Ascetic Form maximizes what you can do with said weapon. The more levels of Venomfist you take, the more value you get from the feat--IF, again, your character using a weapon other than his unarmed strikes is mandatory. Ascetic Strike would ensure that, by 7th level, said weapon did comparable damage to your character's unarmed strike.
(When said character picks Ascetic Strike up ultimately comes down to how much damage the weapon in question does. At 8th level, it would allow a size Medium character to do 1d8 points of damage, so depending on your weapon of choice you may not need to pick this up until 13th level.)
The thing to remember, though, is that by adding a weapon other than your character's unarmed strikes to the mix, you're also adding to the overall cost of the character: you have to enchant a minimum of two things, where before you only needed to enchant one. The Ascetic Style chain of feats would thus work even better with an archetype like the Exemplar, which loses both unarmed strike and close weapon mastery--and thus requires you to invest in a weapon.