A balanced party?


Advice

Envoy's Alliance

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

For... reasons, I'm building a party of characters, and I'm trying to figure out if they are balanced.

So I have a cleric, a Druid, a Monk, a Swashbuckler, and a Thaumaturge (if I can figure out a way to make them "showy").

is this a fairly balanced party?


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Depends on how you define "balanced."
Are all the stats/skills covered? You have a high presence of Wisdom and Charisma, but not necessarily Intelligence, though some of that can be cheated with the Thaum.

You seem to have a decent spread between casters and martials. And even then, subclass options can make a huge difference.

How's spellcasting divvied up? You have no arcane or occult casting. Not necessarily a problem, but it might be if you want full "balance.

With a Cleric and a Druid, (out of combat) healing also seems pretty much covered.

So yes, I'd say this party seems pretty balanced, across most axes. The only thing I'd worry about are damage resistances. Standard Monk only does bludgeoning, Swash most likely piercing or slashing. Thaum can do any. Unless they pick up some class feats or special weapons, big chance that something can accidentally neutralise one or two party members at a time. Other than that, consistent damage might be a thing. Swash does conditional precision damage, Thaum does big single-target, but both need to spend actions to get going. You don't really have someone with a greataxe or anything with a d10 weapon, for example. That could be an issue at some point, I imagine.


There's nothing wrong with that party.

Cleric -- healing & divine spells
Druid -- blasting, primal spells, maybe some combat
Monk -- mobility, good saves, reliable damage
Swash -- mobility, precision damage
Thaum -- utility (tome, regalia, whatever), single-target damage

Let's pick three solid classes that you don't have:

Fighter/Barbarian -- consistent high damage
Rogue -- precision damage & skills
Sorcerer -- control, blasting, etc

So then your options (as I imagine them) would be:

1. Swap in a fighter/barb for the monk or swash. I generally think this would be a win.

2. Swap in a rogue for the swash. This might be an improvement, depending on what skills the other party members have (including whether the thaum has a tome)

3. Swap in a sorc for the druid. I think this is mostly a wash.

Cheers

Envoy's Alliance

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Okay, so
Cleric (Cloistered) of Shelyn
Druid Leaf Order
Swashbuckler battle Dancer
Thaum definitely has the tome
Monk as an acrobatic performance skill feat, and Reflective Ripple stance.


The only obvious thing you're missing is a tanky front liner, and of course you only have one tradition of magic (though it's easy for the Thaumaturge to be able to use every scroll in the game).

Thaum can do that somewhat with Amulet if there's not a lot of enemies (like single/dual target fights), as you'd be surprised how much damage the Amulet blocks once you get to the Adept version. It's no Champion but it's solid.

If you have Free Archetype, then that opens up more options to get some defensive abilities.

But I feel like this is a solid party that should work pretty well. It sounds pretty cool!

Envoy's Alliance

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So, the concept is kind of silly.
They are a group of young women who do pagents around Avistan (and northern Garund). One of their friends is missing, and her mother dead, so they set off to find their friend. Hence no one is too bulky or overtly defensive, and why there is probably a bit of an emphasis on Charisma without a bard.


Monk can be frontliner with a shield. I like to take Champion Archetype on monk to make a frontline monk as well.

Envoy's Alliance

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The monk being the frontline is the expectation. I can discuss the Champion Archetype. the Monk is from Jalmeray


Zoken44 wrote:

For... reasons, I'm building a party of characters, and I'm trying to figure out if they are balanced.

So I have a cleric, a Druid, a Monk, a Swashbuckler, and a Thaumaturge (if I can figure out a way to make them "showy").

is this a fairly balanced party?

Yes it can be.

You have a few melee specialists, access to multiple spell lists, ranged attacks, access to most skills including recall knowledge, heaps of healing. Presumably the monk will have a high strength to cover athletics.

It is probably not offensive enough and a bit generalist for some tastes but it will work fine.


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Tridus wrote:

The only obvious thing you're missing is a tanky front liner, and of course you only have one tradition of magic (though it's easy for the Thaumaturge to be able to use every scroll in the game).

You don't really need a tanky frontliner if everyone in the party is decently defensive, though; Druid is tanky for a caster with zero investment needed, and all the martials are melee and so don't fold into a ball and cry if a reactive strike enemy comes around, so there's not much need for a tanky 'frontliner' when you have three melee users happy to divide the aggro between them and a cloistered cleric and leaf order druid to pick up the slack if anyone accrues too much damage.

If anything, the party is missing a glass cannon attacker who can do big damage.


I think your party is solid and will do just fine. If you don't change a thing you don't have any real worries.

If you replace the swashbuckler with a fighter I do think that the +2 to hit and reactive strike will be a noticeable improvement in combat. Basically, a swashbuckler and a thaumaturge need to spend actions to get in big hits. A fighter just hits stuff without any preparatory actions, and hits successfully more often, and they get in reactive strikes.

Radiant Oath

Two questions:
1 - Which party member is providing the Deception/Diplomacy/Intimidation type skills?
2 - Which party member is providing Stealth/Thievery?

You can do ok without Deception, Intimidation and Stealth, but a lack of Diplomacy and Thievery will probably bite you on the butt.

I'm not familiar with Druid orders, but maybe replace him with a primal Sorcerer?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

since there is a heal divine font cleric in the party a leaf order druid seems redundant. Perhaps storm order would be better.


Zoken44 wrote:

So, the concept is kind of silly.

They are a group of young women who do pagents around Avistan (and northern Garund). One of their friends is missing, and her mother dead, so they set off to find their friend. Hence no one is too bulky or overtly defensive, and why there is probably a bit of an emphasis on Charisma without a bard.

That party reminds me of my current Strength of Thousands party. They are students at the Magaambya Academy, and due to the two bards in the party they act like Theater majors. The champion Wilfred in the party is bulky and defensive, and the rogue Roshan is strong (though a Eldritch Trickster racket rather than a Ruffian racket), but the other five are spellcasters and a kineticist. Their theatric style means that they usually try to befriend opponents, but they are also good at manipulating the battlefield.

What are the theatric specialties of the party members? The leaf druid could have their familiar perform with Accompanist or Skilled familiar ability, the thaumaturge could train in Performance to benefit from their charisma, the cleric and swashbuckler gain Performance from their divine skill or swashbuckler style, and the monk can dance and tumble with Acrobatic Performance.

Zoken44 wrote:

Okay, so

Cleric (Cloistered) of Shelyn
Druid Leaf Order
Swashbuckler battle Dancer
Thaum definitely has the tome
Monk as an acrobatic performance skill feat, and Reflective Ripple stance.

The cleric is unarmored with 8+CON hit points, the druid and thaumaturge have light or medium armor and 8+CON hit points, the swashbuckler has light armor and 10+CON hit points, and the monk has unarmored expertise with 10+CON hit points. The cleric should avoid the frontline, but the others, especially the monk and swashbuckler, are reasonably well defended. And a few domain spells, such as Darkness domain's Cloak of Shadow, Luck domain's Bit of Luck, and Trickery domain's Sudden Shift can help the cleric protect themself, but that would require the cleric to worship a different god, such as Grandmother Spider.

The party can defend themselves by staying mobile rather than by a front line protecting squishy characters. Anyone too hurt can retreat. Therefore, the party does not need a tank.

I worry about damage dealing. Dexterity-based martials gain little damage from Strength bonuses. The swashbuckler is designed to make up for that lack with panache, so that will work. But the monk will need a boost from other party members, such as a Runic Body spell from the cleric. The thaumaturge and druid have their own ways of dealing damage. I think a cloistered cleric of Shelyn should save their slotted spells for buffing the party and throw 60-foot-range cantrips, such as Needle Darts, for damage.

Sir Belmont the Valiant, II wrote:

Two questions:

1 - Which party member is providing the Deception/Diplomacy/Intimidation type skills?
2 - Which party member is providing Stealth/Thievery?

You can do ok without Deception, Intimidation and Stealth, but a lack of Diplomacy and Thievery will probably bite you on the butt.

I'm not familiar with Druid orders, but maybe replace him with a primal Sorcerer?

Thaumaturge class has key attribute Charisma, so they can do well with Charisma skills, such as Deception, Diplomacy, and Intimidation. Also, leaf druids are trained in Diplomacy.

Swashbuckler and a lean Monk have key attribute Dexterity, so they can do well with Dexterity skills, such as Stealth and Thievery.

Envoy's Alliance

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Further clairfication

Human Entertainer Cleric (Cloistered) of Shelyn (Family Domain)
Orc Herbalist Druid Leaf Order
Nimble Elf martial disciple (acrobatic) Swashbuckler battle Dancer with elegant buckler (rapier weapon)
Gnome Scholar Thaum starting with the tome, and scroll thaumaturgy (Short sword weapon)
Aiuvarin Human acrobat Monk as an Reflective Ripple stance.

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