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So why does the Solarian only get the option for Two-handed 1d10 and not Two-handed 1d12? Were they worried letting players make Archaic d12 solar weapons be far too powerful or something? I wish there was a feat to make both Reach & Two-handed cost only a single trait point instead of both, as this restriction seems rather silly. I don't ever think a 1d10 two-handed weapon with 0 traits is actually worth it. It seems like it is a massive downgrade from the D8 one-handed 2 traits weapons.
Does anyone else feel the same way?
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It really ought to be 1 trait, yeah. Or two-hand d12, like a bastard sword.
Reach as your only trait on a 1h weapon is solid, though. Ever since the flickmace nerf, there hasn't been a 1h d8 reach weapon.
It should be 2 Dize sizes, 1 Trait points. 15/17 PF2 weapon do that. And the remaining 2 are badly designed AP content.
But I noticed that the Skyfire sword also only has a 1 die size. So maybe it is a conscious weapon design decisions? Hard to say with two examples, one of which is a Class Feature.
I still mentioned it as possible mistake in the Errata Thread.
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Your two handed d10 comes with an option to always add half your level in fire damage and a hands free ranged option with less accuracy but almost as much damage and 30’ base increment that you can upgrade range and capabilities with feats.
Binaric Assault is another reason to limit the two hand damage. It’s basically a Double Slice with complications that can do d10 (plus photon half level)/d8 at -1 accuracy on the second flare shot. Higher damage vs worse accuracy against a fighter with bad consequences if you miss both.
Also compare to the exemplar gleaming blade transcend: d12 on both with bonus damage on both similar to the photon boost on first hit, but -2 on second hit and either every other round or you pay an action tax to three action use it every turn.
I agree it's weak. I think it should be d12 or maybe allow 3 traits instead of 2?
Oni Shogun wrote: I agree it's weak. I think it should be d12 or maybe allow 3 traits instead of 2? I'm wondering if it's not meant to be three traits. The example solarian's weapon is impossible unless you have three traits, for example.
And speaking of traits, I'm honestly a bit surprised there isn't a feat or class feature to give you more, even ones not on that list, or ones from a subset of the list to limit combinations. Mastering your solarian weapon seems like a great place to put such a feature.
Xenocrat wrote: Your two handed d10 comes with an option to always add half your level in fire damage and a hands free ranged option with less accuracy but almost as much damage and 30’ base increment that you can upgrade range and capabilities with feats.
Binaric Assault is another reason to limit the two hand damage. It’s basically a Double Slice with complications that can do d10 (plus photon half level)/d8 at -1 accuracy on the second flare shot. Higher damage vs worse accuracy against a fighter with bad consequences if you miss both.
The 1H D8 weapon also comes with all those functons.
And actually still has 2 Traits to pick. You are acting like we get Two-Hand for free. It costs us two Trait picks!
Perpdepog wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: I agree it's weak. I think it should be d12 or maybe allow 3 traits instead of 2? I'm wondering if it's not meant to be three traits. The example solarian's weapon is impossible unless you have three traits, for example.
And speaking of traits, I'm honestly a bit surprised there isn't a feat or class feature to give you more, even ones not on that list, or ones from a subset of the list to limit combinations. Mastering your solarian weapon seems like a great place to put such a feature. I would absolutely love a feat that says something like "Pick two traits. One becomes Photon attuned, and one becomes Graviton attuned".
But I think the real answer is that the way to get double as many traits is to take Twin Weapon.
Perpdepog wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: I agree it's weak. I think it should be d12 or maybe allow 3 traits instead of 2? I'm wondering if it's not meant to be three traits. The example solarian's weapon is impossible unless you have three traits, for example.
And speaking of traits, I'm honestly a bit surprised there isn't a feat or class feature to give you more, even ones not on that list, or ones from a subset of the list to limit combinations. Mastering your solarian weapon seems like a great place to put such a feature. I noticed that too! He has too many traits. I hope the d10 is a mistake.
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Justnobodyfqwl wrote: Perpdepog wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: I agree it's weak. I think it should be d12 or maybe allow 3 traits instead of 2? I'm wondering if it's not meant to be three traits. The example solarian's weapon is impossible unless you have three traits, for example.
And speaking of traits, I'm honestly a bit surprised there isn't a feat or class feature to give you more, even ones not on that list, or ones from a subset of the list to limit combinations. Mastering your solarian weapon seems like a great place to put such a feature. I would absolutely love a feat that says something like "Pick two traits. One becomes Photon attuned, and one becomes Graviton attuned".
But I think the real answer is that the way to get double as many traits is to take Twin Weapon. That's true, and that would be a cool feat.
I thought we were going to get a feature like that, but with feats. A class feature around levels 8 to 12 giving you access to a solarian feat of a lower level, but only when in a specific attunement mode, would have been really neat and given a bit of a feeling of choosing one aspect of the cycle to emphasize over another.
I think it stuck in my head because solarian's progression gives me fighter vibes, not sure why, and kept me wondering where their Fighter's Flexibility-like feature was.
Squark wrote: It really ought to be 1 trait, yeah. Or two-hand d12, like a bastard sword.
Reach as your only trait on a 1h weapon is solid, though. Ever since the flickmace nerf, there hasn't been a 1h d8 reach weapon.
Any advice on a Solarian build for 2E SF Society using two handed Solar Weapon?
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Given that you can swap the traits out with a 10-minute activity, I see the two-handed trait as something to switch to when the other traits won't be as useful and you just want to deal more damage. Also making it 1 trait point would require some extra text making it incompatible with free-hand and probably agile (d8 agile is already pushing the limit). Having that much extra text to explain the caveats on one trait in a list would make me think twice about including it at all if I were the game designer.
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Christopher#2411504 wrote: It should be 2 Dize sizes, 1 Trait points. 15/17 PF2 weapon do that. And the remaining 2 are badly designed AP content.
But I noticed that the Skyfire sword also only has a 1 die size. So maybe it is a conscious weapon design decisions? Hard to say with two examples, one of which is a Class Feature.
I still mentioned it as possible mistake in the Errata Thread.
Looking at the martial melee weapons last night it seems like in general there are less d12 weapons. I would agree though for 2 traits it should either be d12 or only cost one trait. As is reach makes some sense for 2 traits but just bumping it to d10 does not and you are better off with two traits. Still with many fewer d12 weapons that I am seeing maybe this is just a adjustment to lower the punch of melee a bit?
It does seem like they were going back and forth on this. The example solarians are not actually legal to build with the current rules. Could be solarians are supposed to have 3 available traits or they were going back and forth if the damage boost or reach should cost both of your options.
Oni Shogun wrote: Squark wrote: It really ought to be 1 trait, yeah. Or two-hand d12, like a bastard sword.
Reach as your only trait on a 1h weapon is solid, though. Ever since the flickmace nerf, there hasn't been a 1h d8 reach weapon.
Any advice on a Solarian build for 2E SF Society using two handed Solar Weapon? I can only give one addvice: Don't, with the current rules.
Two-Hand D10 is twice the cost and half the dice size bonus it should be. It is just not worth it. And I hope they Errrata it.
You can still just use two hands for flavor and specific abilities. That gives you two useful Traits to work with.
Quote: In addition, some abilities require you to wield a weapon in two hands. You meet this requirement while holding the weapon in two hands, even if it doesn't require two hands or have the two-hand trait.
It is worth pointing out that 1E said:
"Two-Handed Weapons: If you want an advanced or basic melee weapon that requires two hands to wield, increase the number of hands to 2, and increase the weapon’s damage die size by one step."
That is probably how they made that mistake. And is why I am hopefull they fix it, to be in line with PF2.
Christopher#2411504 wrote: It is worth pointing out that 1E said:
"Two-Handed Weapons: If you want an advanced or basic melee weapon that requires two hands to wield, increase the number of hands to 2, and increase the weapon’s damage die size by one step."
That is probably how they made that mistake. And is why I am hopefull they fix it, to be in line with PF2.
They should bring that rule back. Cause I love me some two handed weapons.
Squark wrote:
Reach as your only trait on a 1h weapon is solid, though. Ever since the flickmace nerf, there hasn't been a 1h d8 reach weapon.
Im Sephiroth now with that long ass katana he had lol.
I haven't read through the archetypes yet, but now I'm wondering about the viability of a multiclassed solarian/soldier build. Specifically, how effective Whirling Swipe with a solar weapon would be. (When we played Empires Devoured during the playtest, my close-quarters soldier dished out a lot of damage to multiple foes, but my son's solarian could often do more against a single target while photon-attuned.)
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Oni Shogun wrote: Christopher#2411504 wrote: It is worth pointing out that 1E said:
"Two-Handed Weapons: If you want an advanced or basic melee weapon that requires two hands to wield, increase the number of hands to 2, and increase the weapon’s damage die size by one step."
That is probably how they made that mistake. And is why I am hopefull they fix it, to be in line with PF2.
They should bring that rule back. Cause I love me some two handed weapons. This rule doesn't exist at all in the PF2E/SF2E ecosystem because of Runes /Weapon Grades/Solarian Crystals.
And I don't think the 1d10 will be errata'd - it was added in the playtest in errata 3 and I think its just a trade-off and compromise for everything else Solarian gets and can do. Two-Hand 1d12 is not necessary for the class.
GameDesignerDM wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: Christopher#2411504 wrote: It is worth pointing out that 1E said:
"Two-Handed Weapons: If you want an advanced or basic melee weapon that requires two hands to wield, increase the number of hands to 2, and increase the weapon’s damage die size by one step."
That is probably how they made that mistake. And is why I am hopefull they fix it, to be in line with PF2.
They should bring that rule back. Cause I love me some two handed weapons. This rule doesn't exist at all in the PF2E/SF2E ecosystem because of Runes /Weapon Grades/Solarian Crystals.
And I don't think the 1d10 will be errata'd - it was added in the playtest in errata 3 and I think its just a trade-off and compromise for everything else Solarian gets and can do. Two-Hand 1d12 is not necessary for the class. It is very necessary.
Tim Emrick wrote: I haven't read through the archetypes yet, but now I'm wondering about the viability of a multiclassed solarian/soldier build. Specifically, how effective Whirling Swipe with a solar weapon would be. (When we played Empires Devoured during the playtest, my close-quarters soldier dished out a lot of damage to multiple foes, but my son's solarian could often do more against a single target while photon-attuned.) This is actually a super good point. Operatives & Solarians are def the single target damage kings compared to Soldier, so the idea of being able to combine their strengths is very fun.
Soldiers and Solarians are actually probably the roughest multiclass archetypes. While you can multiclass a pretty decent Quantum Field or Mystic Bond Network by level 4, I think you don't really get the real experience of Soldiers or Solarians until their level 6 feats.
However... This build is the smartest use of BOTH of them! You can easily do a Soldier dedication at 2, and then pick up Whirling Swipe at level 4. That way, you can be dealing photon attuned damage while doing a reach whirling swipe!
....wait...doesn't Photon-attuned Solar Weapon say "on a successful Strike"? Would this work?
Justnobodyfqwl wrote: Tim Emrick wrote: I haven't read through the archetypes yet, but now I'm wondering about the viability of a multiclassed solarian/soldier build. Specifically, how effective Whirling Swipe with a solar weapon would be. (When we played Empires Devoured during the playtest, my close-quarters soldier dished out a lot of damage to multiple foes, but my son's solarian could often do more against a single target while photon-attuned.) This is actually a super good point. Operatives & Solarians are def the single target damage kings compared to Soldier, so the idea of being able to combine their strengths is very fun.
Soldiers and Solarians are actually probably the roughest multiclass archetypes. While you can multiclass a pretty decent Quantum Field or Mystic Bond Network by level 4, I think you don't really get the real experience of Soldiers or Solarians until their level 6 feats.
However... This build is the smartest use of BOTH of them! You can easily do a Soldier dedication at 2, and then pick up Whirling Swipe at level 4. That way, you can be dealing photon attuned damage while doing a reach whirling swipe!
....wait...doesn't Photon-attuned Solar Weapon say "on a successful Strike"? Would this work? You can't use a Reach solarian weapon with Whirling Swipe. Whirling Swipe only works with two-handed weapons, and making your solarian weapon two-handed would eat up all its traits.
Oni Shogun wrote: GameDesignerDM wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: Christopher#2411504 wrote: It is worth pointing out that 1E said:
"Two-Handed Weapons: If you want an advanced or basic melee weapon that requires two hands to wield, increase the number of hands to 2, and increase the weapon’s damage die size by one step."
That is probably how they made that mistake. And is why I am hopefull they fix it, to be in line with PF2.
They should bring that rule back. Cause I love me some two handed weapons. This rule doesn't exist at all in the PF2E/SF2E ecosystem because of Runes /Weapon Grades/Solarian Crystals.
And I don't think the 1d10 will be errata'd - it was added in the playtest in errata 3 and I think its just a trade-off and compromise for everything else Solarian gets and can do. Two-Hand 1d12 is not necessary for the class. It is very necessary. That's entirely subjective, to be honest - and from folks who've played at GenCon or saw one played, they do very respectable damage and are just fine with what they have.
1-2 points of damage isn't going to make you useless, and I've never actually seen any actual play example at my own table where it really mattered someone had the most damage a weapon can do ever.
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Perpdepog wrote: You can't use a Reach solarian weapon with Whirling Swipe. Whirling Swipe only works with two-handed weapons, and making your solarian weapon two-handed would eat up all its traits. For everrything that says "two handed weapon", holding a Knife in two Hands works:
"In addition, some abilities require you to wield a weapon in two hands. You meet this requirement while holding the weapon in two hands, even if it doesn't require two hands or have the two-hand trait."
Hands rules.
GameDesignerDM wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: GameDesignerDM wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: Christopher#2411504 wrote: It is worth pointing out that 1E said:
"Two-Handed Weapons: If you want an advanced or basic melee weapon that requires two hands to wield, increase the number of hands to 2, and increase the weapon’s damage die size by one step."
That is probably how they made that mistake. And is why I am hopefull they fix it, to be in line with PF2.
They should bring that rule back. Cause I love me some two handed weapons. This rule doesn't exist at all in the PF2E/SF2E ecosystem because of Runes /Weapon Grades/Solarian Crystals.
And I don't think the 1d10 will be errata'd - it was added in the playtest in errata 3 and I think its just a trade-off and compromise for everything else Solarian gets and can do. Two-Hand 1d12 is not necessary for the class. It is very necessary. That's entirely subjective, to be honest - and from folks who've played at GenCon or saw one played, they do very respectable damage and are just fine with what they have.
1-2 points of damage isn't going to make you useless, and I've never actually seen any actual play example at my own table where it really mattered someone had the most damage a weapon can do ever. You pay:
- 2 Trait choices
- a entire second hand
And for all that, you get 1 measily die Size?
That is not a good deal. It would rather grab an actual shield and use that plus my 2 Traits, thank you.
Heck, I would rather do 1D8 and 2 Traits and use the Weapon in two hands with no bonus, to qualify for those abilities.
Perpdepog wrote:
You can't use a Reach solarian weapon with Whirling Swipe. Whirling Swipe only works with two-handed weapons, and making your solarian weapon two-handed would eat up all its traits. Yep, you're completely right. Bad example that I got mixed up! But even a d10 two-handed Whirling Swipe wouldn't be "a strike" I'm assuming, right?
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Justnobodyfqwl wrote: Perpdepog wrote:
You can't use a Reach solarian weapon with Whirling Swipe. Whirling Swipe only works with two-handed weapons, and making your solarian weapon two-handed would eat up all its traits. Yep, you're completely right. Bad example that I got mixed up! But even a d10 two-handed Whirling Swipe wouldn't be "a strike" I'm assuming, right? I don't think so? It would have a Strike in there if you were a soldier using Primary Target though, I think.
GameDesignerDM wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: GameDesignerDM wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: Christopher#2411504 wrote: It is worth pointing out that 1E said:
"Two-Handed Weapons: If you want an advanced or basic melee weapon that requires two hands to wield, increase the number of hands to 2, and increase the weapon’s damage die size by one step."
That is probably how they made that mistake. And is why I am hopefull they fix it, to be in line with PF2.
They should bring that rule back. Cause I love me some two handed weapons. This rule doesn't exist at all in the PF2E/SF2E ecosystem because of Runes /Weapon Grades/Solarian Crystals.
And I don't think the 1d10 will be errata'd - it was added in the playtest in errata 3 and I think its just a trade-off and compromise for everything else Solarian gets and can do. Two-Hand 1d12 is not necessary for the class. It is very necessary. That's entirely subjective, to be honest - and from folks who've played at GenCon or saw one played, they do very respectable damage and are just fine with what they have.
1-2 points of damage isn't going to make you useless, and I've never actually seen any actual play example at my own table where it really mattered someone had the most damage a weapon can do ever. Tell that to my 3 barb characters. lol
It matters on crits. I'm going to keep hoping for a d12 myself.
Gimmie those delicious d12s
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
would a repeatable feat that gives your solarian weapon an extra trait be broken?
Zoken44 wrote: would a repeatable feat that gives your solarian weapon an extra trait be broken? Hell yeah!
The Solar Weapon as is - 1H 1D8 + 2 Traits - is already into Advanced Weapons.
And htat is before all the Attunement Stuff and what else the Solarian is doing with it.
Christopher#2411504 wrote: Zoken44 wrote: would a repeatable feat that gives your solarian weapon an extra trait be broken? Hell yeah!
The Solar Weapon as is - 1H 1D8 + 2 Traits - is already into Advanced Weapons.
And htat is before all the Attunement Stuff and what else the Solarian is doing with it. Depends on the traits, since Two-handed d10 is weaker than a bastard sword.
Dubious Scholar wrote: Christopher#2411504 wrote: Zoken44 wrote: would a repeatable feat that gives your solarian weapon an extra trait be broken? Hell yeah!
The Solar Weapon as is - 1H 1D8 + 2 Traits - is already into Advanced Weapons.
And htat is before all the Attunement Stuff and what else the Solarian is doing with it. Depends on the traits, since Two-handed d10 is weaker than a bastard sword. That is a problem with either:
- the two-handed trait specifically
- the way Starfinder balances 2H Weapons
It does not apply to literrally any other Trait. So it still operates like a Advanced Weapon.
I hope they address this soon. The example character has too many traits and twohand only doing a d10 and taking up both traits is rather weak.
Oni Shogun wrote: I hope they address this soon. The example character has too many traits and twohand only doing a d10 and taking up both traits is rather weak. Agreed on both.
Christopher#2411504 wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: I hope they address this soon. The example character has too many traits and twohand only doing a d10 and taking up both traits is rather weak. Agreed on both. A Solarians focus is on melee it would seem so I think they should get a better trade off for two hands than ONE die step..seriously.
Oni Shogun wrote: Christopher#2411504 wrote: Oni Shogun wrote: I hope they address this soon. The example character has too many traits and twohand only doing a d10 and taking up both traits is rather weak. Agreed on both. A Solarians focus is on melee it would seem so I think they should get a better trade off for two hands than ONE die step..seriously. SF1E only gave 2H weapons 1 die Size bonus. Two-Hand or not.
PF2 gives 2H weapons 2 die sizes.
And half of the weapons in the melee Weapon table seem built to one standard, the rest to the other. Quite a mess.
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