Without spell component, what is the use for Psychic casting?

[Paolingou]

Can anyone answer this question?

[moosher12]

It still functions, and essentially functions like default casting now, but it has a few minor benefits.

In the Remastered spellcasting system, it's assumed you have to make incantations:

Player Core pg. 299 wrote:

The casting of a spell can range from a simple word of magical might that creates a fleeting effect to a complex process taking hours to cast and producing a long-term impact. Casting a spell requires the caster to make gestures and utter incantations, so being unable to speak prevents spellcasting for most casters. If your character has a long term disability that prevents or complicates them from speaking (as described in GM Core), work with the GM to determine an analogous way they cast their spells, such as tapping in code on their staff or whistling.

It still gives the GM the power to override the need for typical incantation casting, theoretically enabling emulation of say, bardic music casting off of a wizard, and vice versa, in addition to a host of other flavorful equivalents. But the main point is, the casting component needs a sound to be made, either via talking, or by playing an instrument (I also feel like there is an implication that you cannot have your cake and eat it too, as if you pick an alternate sound mechanism for casting, you probably cannot use voice if you lose access to your new sound mechanism). So things that stop these modes of casting, such as an area of silence, or being gagged and stripped of a musical device or other audio tool, would still not apply to a Psychic's need to only think.

But, Psychic is still in Legacy. And has not been properly updated to the Remaster beyond what is minimum necessary, and likely won't be until either Dark Archives gets a reprint, or another Remaster book redoes the class. That's my GM interpretation of how it's mechanics remain somewhat useful, but it definitely would need clarification to better properly define how it works in the Remastered spellcasting rules.

[SuperBidi]

Psychic Spellcasting allows you to cast spell, so it's rather useful.
As for the part about components, it never really had any impact so it's mostly as useless as it used to be.

[Finoan]

Psychic Spellcasting didn't work like Subtle Spellcasting even before Remaster. It still produced visible and audible spellcasting manifestations.

So it was pretty much just a flavor thing to begin with.

[AestheticDialectic]

Finoan wrote:

Psychic Spellcasting didn't work like Subtle Spellcasting even before Remaster. It still produced visible and audible spellcasting manifestations.

So it was pretty much just a flavor thing to begin with.

This was hotly debated and not resolved. If you cast a spell behind someone's back, I'm of the opinion a psychic's spells are as good as subtle but depending on the spell effect will be noticed immediately after the spell is cast because of noise or light or whatever. The language on the "spellcasting manifestations" is sufficiently vague enough that people don't agree on what it means

[HammerJack]

Hotly debated? Nothing ever even vaguely suggested that psychic spells didn't have manifestations. There was never an ambiguity about that to resolve.

Purely flavor is also false, since not needing to speak incantations was very important if you were underwater, swallowed whole, etc and speaking an incantation would mean.losing all of your air.

[Finoan]

HammerJack wrote:

Purely flavor is also false, since not needing to speak incantations was very important if you were underwater, swallowed whole, etc and speaking an incantation would mean.losing all of your air.

That's fair. Niche use would be more accurate. It isn't something that is going to be a big part of every campaign. It may be a big part of some campaigns, or a small part of many campaigns.

And yeah, there is no real debate about how manifestations work other than by people who want to houserule away spellcasting manifestations and still claim to be running the game by strict RAW.

CRB Spellcasting Manifestations wrote:

When you Cast a Spell, your spellcasting creates obvious visual manifestations of the gathering magic, although feats such as Conceal Spell and Melodious Spell can help hide such manifestations or otherwise prevent observers from noticing that you are casting.

PC1 Spellcasting Manifestations wrote:

Spellcasting creates obvious sensory manifestations, such as bright lights, crackling sounds, and sharp smells from the gathering magic.

Since PF2 doesn't have character facing, casting behind someone's back isn't a thing. The other observers still notice the sound/smell/whatever else the manifestations of spellcasting are flavored to be.

[Errenor]

Finoan wrote:

Psychic Spellcasting didn't work like Subtle Spellcasting even before Remaster. It still produced visible and audible spellcasting manifestations.

So it was pretty much just a flavor thing to begin with.

I don't believe that it has ever been subtle at all, but it has always allowed casting in Silence and underwater, hasn't it? So not nothing.

[Mangaholic13]

Honestly, a part of me is seriously hoping that, upon getting updated for the Remaster, that Psychic Spellcasting will remove the Manipulate trait from occult spells cast by a Psychic.

[AestheticDialectic]

HammerJack wrote:

Hotly debated? Nothing ever even vaguely suggested that psychic spells didn't have manifestations. There was never an ambiguity about that to resolve.

Purely flavor is also false, since not needing to speak incantations was very important if you were underwater, swallowed whole, etc and speaking an incantation would mean.losing all of your air.

That's not what was hotly debated. It's whether the manifestations are the preamble to casting the spell or the spell effect itself

[Super Zero]

It means you don't have to speak out loud to cast spells, which is occasionally useful.

Which is the same use it always had.

What else were you expecting? It's not a powerful ability. It never was.