| Arachnofiend |
I feel like I'm going through the same feeling as the Psychic playtest where you have this incredibly cool and thematic class feature that just isn't as strong as it feels like it should be because the class has spell slots. I think the witchwarper is a class where it should be correct to not cast a spell some rounds and for that to be true the field effects need to be plentiful and powerful, and right now I don't think they are.
| Icefyer |
Witchwarper does seem pretty lackluster in the warping department compared to all the stuff that Mystic can do with their connections. For it being their main feature a lot of it feels... tacked on, I think? Like the Precog's warp is just...5 feet of movement when the enemy will often just shoot you instead. Kinda miss the old ability to mess with ally dice rolls of the 1e one. As far as I'm aware that's partially represented in Analyst now?
So it really does feel like, instead of how the Mystic for example really leans into their connection and supercharges it, the Witchwarper just feels kinda...there and somewhat ignorable.
| WWHsmackdown |
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Count me in I'm; always down to to chop off slots for more interesting/powerful class stuff. Design wise they may want four slot casters from the jump to satisfy caster players, in that case it might might not be changing and witchwarper and mystic serve as the wizard sorc design niches (not thematic niches). As far as the discrepancy between the two? Paizo may favor giving support power more easily than cc; this tracks imo if only bc of bard and cleric.
| Gobhaggo |
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The feats (Butterfly effect, four focus points, four extra slotted spells) and focus spells (reroll successful save) make it the ultimate save or suck/lose caster. It’s fine - the anchor and QF are sideshows.
Then I don't want that to be the main benefit of Warpers, If my class feature is QF, then I better be QUantum Fielding 90% of the time
| Teridax |
I think the class would be much better off as a 3-slot caster, yes, and I'd go as far as to say the same could be said for the Mystic too. A fourth spell slot per rank is a huge drain on a class's power budget normally, which in my opinion makes both casters overtuned given their base stats and class features, but also limits their ability to showcase what's actually cool about them. If I want to play a spontaneous caster with lots of extra spell slots, I'd much rather go for the Sorcerer, as that's their thing. Otherwise, I'd rather sink my teeth into the unique features that make the caster stand out on their own merits, which in the Witchwarper's case really ought to be their quantum field.
| Perpdepog |
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Xenocrat wrote:The feats (Butterfly effect, four focus points, four extra slotted spells) and focus spells (reroll successful save) make it the ultimate save or suck/lose caster. It’s fine - the anchor and QF are sideshows.Then I don't want that to be the main benefit of Warpers, If my class feature is QF, then I better be QUantum Fielding 90% of the time
I'm not sure I'd agree with 90% of the time specifically, but I feel like I should definitely want to be using my Quantum Field a ton.
I'd also like more emphasis on the Quantum Field because it's what new players are going to see first, and hopefully be excited by. It's in the descriptions for the witchwarper and is the big reason why someone is picking them over a mystic. Classes also just flow better if their feature is the thing they focus on rather than their feats, unless feats are their primary feature, like the fighter.
| Xenocrat |
After thinking about it some more, often the best thing about activating the QF is that it allows you to use your warp spells. They're that good.
Quantum Pulse seems mandatory though on many of the builds I've thought of to make best use of some of them. I'll cast Accelerate on my first round if I have another action after to strike with Spellsurge Ammo active, but I won't use three actions to haste myself and nothing else the first round, and two actions in the second round is even more iffy.
| ElementalofCuteness |
I don't see why a 4 slot caster is bad, Cleric, Oracle, Wizard, Sorcerer, Animist (Playtest) all have either 4 slots of varying spells or a bunch of free auto-hightened spells (Divine Font) and Sorcerer Remastered got a huge buff despite having 4 slots and so did Oracle which is a 4 slot, 8 hit points, light armor caster.
| Teridax |
I don't see why a 4 slot caster is bad, Cleric, Oracle, Wizard, Sorcerer, Animist (Playtest) all have either 4 slots of varying spells or a bunch of free auto-hightened spells (Divine Font) and Sorcerer Remastered got a huge buff despite having 4 slots and so did Oracle which is a 4 slot, 8 hit points, light armor caster.
It's the fact that everyone's getting 4 slots per rank these days that's a problem, IMO. Until recently, the baseline for a caster was 3 slots per rank, and classes with more slots had to pay a hefty price for it: in particular, both the Wizard and Sorcerer have the absolute worst base stats in 2e, and their class features serve to limit their exceptional versatility rather than add all that much more power. On top of that, having 4 slots was their defining feature: even now, if I want to play a spontaneous caster who can cast slot spells for days, I'll pick the Sorcerer, because that's what they're made for. By contrast, having 3 slots per rank is what allows other classes to shine in their own way with incredibly powerful features, whether it's the Bard's compositions, the Cleric's divine font (which isn't the same as being able to prepare spells freely into extra slots), or the Druid's incredibly solid all-round package.
The problem when everyone starts getting 4 slots per rank on top of solid base stats, strong class features, or both is that it devalues those classes that pay a heavy price for their fourth slot, and also just power creeps the game. The new Oracle I think might be okay, if only because their power's really poorly-allocated, but the playtest Animist I think was quite significantly overtuned, and SF2e's classes in general are a fair bit more powerful right now than their Pathfinder counterparts. Even assuming the Mystic and Witchwarper are balanced, I don't think being a caster with amazing generic spell output is really the best way to showcase their unique class features. In the Witchwarper's case in particular, I would gladly trade away that fourth slot if it meant making their quantum field much more impressive.