I recall there being a rule that you could only Command an Animal once per round, particularly as it related to Animal companions. However, I seem to have lost track of that rule in the Remaster.
Does it still exist, and if so, where can it be found?
If you are limited to commanding a minion once per round in the Remaster, can you use abilities that allow your companion to act and Command an Animal in the same round? In short do the Command an Animal limitations apply to other actions?
Example:
Cavalier's Charge + Command an Animal to Stride twice, Strike, Stride twice for three actions
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The Minion definition covers it.
Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when you spend an action to issue it commands. For an animal companion, you Command an Animal; for a minion that's a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain the effect; if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command as a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits. If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm. If left unattended for long enough, typically 1 minute, mindless minions usually don't act, animals follow their instincts, and sapient minions act how they please.
A minion has only 2 actions and 0 reactions per turn, though certain conditions (such as slowed or quickened) or abilities might give them a reaction that they can use. Alterations to a minion's actions occur when they gain their actions for the round. A minion can't control other creatures.
Commanding it as a subordinate action changes nothing.
There is also the Command an Animal action that can be used multiple times in a round since nothing prevents that. In addition to spending multiple actions on one instance of Command an Animal in order to get the animal to do an activity that costs multiple actions.
There is some debate over whether you can use both the Minion command action and the Command an Animal action on the same round or even if it is valid to use Command an Animal on a Minion at all.
The last line of Command an Animal:
If you have a pet, animal companion, familiar, or similar minion, you can command it much more effectively.
can be interpreted both ways. It either says that Command an Animal is valid but is an inferior alternative to the Minion commands, or it says that you can't use Command an Animal because the Minion commands take precedence.
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Since when has there ever been debate? The actions they use when you command your minion are the only ones they have. If you could also give them a command woth the regular mechanic, they'd have no actions to execute it with.
Would it make a difference if there wasn't a Command an Animal subordinate action?
For example, Command an Animal followed by a separate and distinct ability that says "Your companion Strides up to its speed. "
So...nothing in the minion or animal companion rues prevent other abilities from working?
Sounds like I just need to find them.
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Since when has there ever been debate? The actions they use when you command your minion are the only ones they have. If you could also give them a command woth the regular mechanic, they'd have no actions to execute it with.
I don't allow Minions to be given additional commands with Command an Animal. I haven't seen it run that way in an actual game either. I also think it would be strange that only animal type Minions would qualify - not plant or dragon or construct or humanoid Minions.
That doesn't mean that there isn't debate about it.
wait dont the animal companion rules say they override the command animal rules?
Adding:Yep they do on page 206 PC
Your animal companion has the animal and minion
traits, and it gains 2 actions during your turn if you use the
Command an Animal action to command it; this replaces
the usual effects of Command an Animal, and you don’t
need to attempt a Nature check.
Taking this back. What are these minion commands?
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Taking this back. What are these minion commands?
What you cited are the Minion commands. The special commands that you can give to your Minion that gives them two actions without a check instead of one action with a check.
And while I would also rule that it is a replacement of the Command an Animal action itself, the rule doesn't actually say that it replaces and prevents using the standard Command an Animal - just that the Minion command action replaces the usual effects of Command an Animal. There is still a little bit of wiggle room to argue that you can also use the standard Command an Animal action on your Minion animal as well.
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The effects of the action Command An Animal are changed when you use it on your Animal Companion. That is explicitly stated. There are not two separate actions named Command An Animal, for you to argue that you should use one and then the other.
Is this actually a thing people have been trying to claim? Where? When?
Ah ok. I thought for a second there there might be some separate minion commands that I was just unaware of for minions in general.
To list out all the reasons that I think the standard Command an Animal action is not available to use on your Animal Companion:
The animals you command with Command an Animal are stated to be of limited intelligence - so much so that the GM decides what action they actually take instead of the player giving the commands. Which is probably not what the player arguing for this is wanting.
When commanded successfully with Command an Animal, the animal will take the action on their next turn. Minions don't have a turn outside of their master's turn.
In the CRB 4th printing clarifications, Minions are again stated to have 2 actions and 0 reactions as their standard number of actions that they get. Effects like Haste and Slow can increase or decrease that number. Command an Animal does not grant any additional actions, it only directs the animal how to use the actions that it already has.
Allowing Command an Animal on your Minion opens the door to having enemies use Command an Animal on your Minion. PCs and their Minions do not have attitude conditions such as Unfriendly or Hostile, so those don't mechanically protect the Minion from being given orders. This one is a bit pedantic, but it is still valid logic. Useful for arguing against Munchkins with.
Is this actually a thing people have been trying to claim? Where? When?
For starters... at the top of this thread.
Give me a minute here to research...
Here is one saying that Rangers should have the option of the Minion special command and the ability to use Command an Animal normally up to three times.
Another one regarding being mounted on your Animal Companion and needing to use the standard Command an Animal action. Which would allow an Animal Companion horse to keep up with a non-Minion horse.
Another thread talking about Minion mounts and the worse action economy that they have. This one ends with a proposed houserule to allow the Minion command to be two actions to give the mounted Minion three actions to run with.
So yeah. It isn't very common. And people don't usually win the argument. But the desire for giving more commands to your Minion remains. And with that desire to have the rules work a certain way, people sometimes read the rules in a way to confirm that desire.
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So, two threads that WANT the rules to be different, rather than thinking they are, and one with a person who clearly doesn't understand how commanding normal mounts works OR how commanding minions works. Calling that debated as though it were actually unclear seems a bit of an exagerration.
Debated would be if there were multiple positions that could be correct. Not one person stubbornly refusing to understand anything.
Understanding whether or not you can have an animal act beyond the one Command an Animal pair of actions with abilities that are not Command an Animal is going to be important when the Commander releases.
I didn't really think that you could use Command an Animal more than once a turn with a minion companion. I just wanted the discussion to be comprehensive and cover all areas of minion companion action limitations.
Understanding whether or not you can have an animal act beyond the one Command an Animal pair of actions with abilities that are not Command an Animal is going to be important when the Commander releases.
The Commander grants free action/reactions, so they will work on ACs the same way they work on normal PCs. It will actually be rather impactful, one classical example being to affect both a Summoner and their Eidolon with Ready, Aim, Fire! for 2 cantrips. But overall it won't cause issues from a rule perspective.
So it is possible for an animal companion or other minion to take more than two actions in a round if an ability allows for it?
Great. Let's get to finding those abilities.
(I doubt the ones requiring reactions will be much help with a minion though, seeing as minions typically don't get reactions.)
So it is possible for an animal companion or other minion to take more than two actions in a round if an ability allows for it?
Great. Let's get to finding those abilities.
(I doubt the ones requiring reactions will be much help with a minion though, seeing as minions typically don't get reactions.)
The Commander grants reactions to use its reactions (hate the action terms that have 2 meanings). I don't see why a Minion wouldn't be able to use Reactions or free actions. They have limited actions, but neither Reactions nor free actions eat those.
The Commander grants reactions to use its reactions (hate the action terms that have 2 meanings). I don't see why a Minion wouldn't be able to use Reactions or free actions. They have limited actions, but neither Reactions nor free actions eat those.So it is possible for an animal companion or other minion to take more than two actions in a round if an ability allows for it?
Great. Let's get to finding those abilities.
(I doubt the ones requiring reactions will be much help with a minion though, seeing as minions typically don't get reactions.)
This seems relevant.
If given the reactions, it sounds like you're in good shape, otherwise, it's not something minions can normally take advantage of.
Yes, obviously, the Commander needs to give a Reaction to the Minion if they expect them to use their Reaction. They don't get any Reaction by default.
Since when has there ever been debate? The actions they use when you command your minion are the only ones they have. If you could also give them a command woth the regular mechanic, they'd have no actions to execute it with.
I think it is still technically possible.
The problem is the animals turn is not well defined. If the animal is your minion it acts in your turn - somewhere it takes its turn inside your turn. If it is not your minion it has its own initative and acts then.You can Ride a minion that belongs to some one else. Effectively becoming a minion to two characters. Then an argument could be made for it acting in two characters turns.
A reasonable GM is just going to stop that but it is there.
I don't think I would consider animal companions getting actions to take on a players turn the same as the animal companion having or being given a turn.
I also dont think another player attempting to ride a minion that isnt theres gets to use the command animal rules on it.
If that minion is given actions by the player who controls it while a different player is riding it, that is when that animal companion can move but I am guessing it cannot respond to the riding players command animal attempts at all.
There's only guessing there. "One of your allies can ride your animal companion" is about where the rules end on that. They wrote that it's possible but never bothered to write any of the rules about how it's supposed to work.
(Also, this is the sixth time I've seen someone bring it up in two weeks, and I dont understand why that totally undeveloped mess of a concept is everywhere suddenly, after not seeing it come up anywhere for ages.)
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(Also, this is the sixth time I've seen someone bring it up in two weeks, and I dont understand why that totally undeveloped mess of a concept is everywhere suddenly, after not seeing it come up anywhere for ages.)
Howl of the Wild introduced several new things involving "riding" so it has everyone thinking in that space.