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I am going to document my inexorable iron magus build and damage comparable to the two-weapon flurry ranger and a fighter.
Human (Nephilim) Inexorable Iron Magus
I've tested a d12 non-reach weapon and a d10 reach weapon. I'm thinking the d10 reach weapon is better for a spellstriking inexorable iron magus.
Reach can avoid more AOOs and set up more of the inexorable iron abilities like spellswipe and devastating spellstrike. I think it is worth the slight loss of damage for the increased reach since the majority of magus damage comes from the spelstrike spell damage. I want to have more opportunities for positioning attacks for the extra little bits of AOE damage and swiping when it sets up right.
Magus is up to level 3 with a starting strength of 18.
Level 2 feat: Force Fang: I like this ability as it is guaranteed damage and recharges the spellstrike as well as hitting incorporeal creatures and have few creatures resistant to it.
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I think in actual play, the reach + taking attack of opportunity as a level 6 feat will feel more powerful. Even though it's hard to factor into DPR calculations. But an AoO is a free attack at 0 MAP and it also (less visible again) causes enemies to not do things they would have otherwise done.
One thing that people don't realize is that with a d10/d12 weapon, you may have a better turn by attacking twice than by Spellstriking with a cantrip. This is definitely true at early levels when you should be casting Runic Weapon up until at least level 4 with your Striking rune-- spells typically are only
I didn't find Force Fang to be the best option when I built my II Magus. I'd note that while Thunderous Strike isn't guaranteed damage, it is two opportunities to do damage, with one of those being save-based. The bonus damage from the save is roughly half of your expected Force Fang damage but you also get the Strike in there for free. Combined with the advice above about just two Strikes being a viable turn?
Of course, the extra Focus Point is always valuable, but I find a Psychic archetype will often win out as a better use of your feats compared to Force Fang.
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Human (Nephilim) Inexorable Iron Magus
I've tested a d12 non-reach weapon and a d10 reach weapon. I'm thinking the d10 reach weapon is better for a spellstriking inexorable iron magus.
Reach can avoid more AOOs and set up more of the inexorable iron abilities like spellswipe and devastating spellstrike. I think it is worth the slight loss of damage for the increased reach since the majority of magus damage comes from the spelstrike spell damage. I want to have more opportunities for positioning attacks for the extra little bits of AOE damage and swiping when it sets up right.
For me it is also that sometimes the reach weapon saves you a move action. Actions are extra damage for action-tight strikers like the Magus.
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I gave up on II magus. It's too unwieldy a build. The 3 action spell swipe is rarely usable like all 3 action abilities. The party is already melee heavy, so I switched to Starlit Span. I'm take wizard archetype to add more casting and make it more of a ranged striker/blaster.
The melee range spellstrike wasn't great either. That really does feel bad when a lot of enemies have reactive strike.
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I gave up on II magus. It's too unwieldy a build. The 3 action spell swipe is rarely usable like all 3 action abilities. The party is already melee heavy, so I switched to Starlit Span. I'm take wizard archetype to add more casting and make it more of a ranged striker/blaster.
The melee range spellstrike wasn't great either. That really does feel bad when a lot of enemies have reactive strike.
Why not Psychic archetype ?
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Why not Psychic archetype ?I gave up on II magus. It's too unwieldy a build. The 3 action spell swipe is rarely usable like all 3 action abilities. The party is already melee heavy, so I switched to Starlit Span. I'm take wizard archetype to add more casting and make it more of a ranged striker/blaster.
The melee range spellstrike wasn't great either. That really does feel bad when a lot of enemies have reactive strike.
I did that before on my last Starlit Span magus. I want to try something else. Gouging Claw is really good now, so I don't necessarily need Imaginary Weapon. I want to try some different strategies.
So I picked Expanded Spellstrike and since there are more AoE cantrips now and gouging claw and needle darts are both pretty good, I can roll with those for now.
Gonna unload some Timbers, Caustic Blasts, and Scattering Screes for mini-AoEs, then some gouging claw for single target.
Work in some other interesting stuff like slow arrows.
I wanted a change from the big hit Starlit Span magus I played before. Be more of a use the bow as an even better version of reach Starlit Span magus.
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Why not Psychic archetype ?I gave up on II magus. It's too unwieldy a build. The 3 action spell swipe is rarely usable like all 3 action abilities. The party is already melee heavy, so I switched to Starlit Span. I'm take wizard archetype to add more casting and make it more of a ranged striker/blaster.
The melee range spellstrike wasn't great either. That really does feel bad when a lot of enemies have reactive strike.
I did that before on my last Starlit Span magus. I want to try something else. Gouging Claw is really good now, so I don't necessarily need Imaginary Weapon. I want to try some different strategies.
So I picked Expanded Spellstrike and since there are more AoE cantrips now and gouging claw and needle darts are both pretty good, I can roll with those for now.
Gonna unload some Timbers, Caustic Blasts, and Scattering Screes for mini-AoEs, then some gouging claw for single target.
Work in some other interesting stuff like slow arrows.
I wanted a change from the big hit Starlit Span magus I played before. Be more of a use the bow as an even better version of reach Starlit Span magus.
I see.
I used Cleric archetype for my Starlit Span Magus for the Fire Ray but I actually enjoyed having access to positive damage and aligned damage through the Divine list.
Why not Psychic archetype ?I gave up on II magus. It's too unwieldy a build. The 3 action spell swipe is rarely usable like all 3 action abilities. The party is already melee heavy, so I switched to Starlit Span. I'm take wizard archetype to add more casting and make it more of a ranged striker/blaster.
The melee range spellstrike wasn't great either. That really does feel bad when a lot of enemies have reactive strike.
I did that before on my last Starlit Span magus. I want to try something else. Gouging Claw is really good now, so I don't necessarily need Imaginary Weapon. I want to try some different strategies.
So I picked Expanded Spellstrike and since there are more AoE cantrips now and gouging claw and needle darts are both pretty good, I can roll with those for now.
Gonna unload some Timbers, Caustic Blasts, and Scattering Screes for mini-AoEs, then some gouging claw for single target.
Work in some other interesting stuff like slow arrows.
I wanted a change from the big hit Starlit Span magus I played before. Be more of a use the bow as an even better version of reach Starlit Span magus.
I see.
I used Cleric archetype for my Starlit Span Magus for the Fire Ray but I actually enjoyed having access to positive damage and aligned damage through the Divine list.
Any reason, other than flavor (which I know can be a deal-breaker), to go with the multiclassed cleric archetype instead of a multiclassed witch with a divine patron?
I'm looking at a halfling alchemist with the witch dedication (Faith's Flamekeeper patron) for Curtain Call: a motherly baker (lots of alchemical food formulas) with a fluffy cat familiar, who just also happens to specialize in the Toxicologist research field and used to moonlight in the anti-Thrune resistance as an assassin/vigilante.
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Why not Psychic archetype ?I gave up on II magus. It's too unwieldy a build. The 3 action spell swipe is rarely usable like all 3 action abilities. The party is already melee heavy, so I switched to Starlit Span. I'm take wizard archetype to add more casting and make it more of a ranged striker/blaster.
The melee range spellstrike wasn't great either. That really does feel bad when a lot of enemies have reactive strike.
I did that before on my last Starlit Span magus. I want to try something else. Gouging Claw is really good now, so I don't necessarily need Imaginary Weapon. I want to try some different strategies.
So I picked Expanded Spellstrike and since there are more AoE cantrips now and gouging claw and needle darts are both pretty good, I can roll with those for now.
Gonna unload some Timbers, Caustic Blasts, and Scattering Screes for mini-AoEs, then some gouging claw for single target.
Work in some other interesting stuff like slow arrows.
I wanted a change from the big hit Starlit Span magus I played before. Be more of a use the bow as an even better version of reach Starlit Span magus.
I see.
I used Cleric archetype for my Starlit Span Magus for the Fire Ray but I actually enjoyed having access to positive damage and aligned damage through the Divine list.
Any reason, other than flavor (which I know can be a deal-breaker), to go with the multiclassed cleric archetype instead of a multiclassed witch with a divine patron?
I'm looking at a halfling alchemist with the witch dedication (Faith's Flamekeeper patron) for Curtain Call: a motherly baker (lots of alchemical food formulas) with a fluffy cat familiar, who just also happens to specialize in the Toxicologist research field and used to moonlight in the anti-Thrune resistance as an assassin/vigilante.
Magus benefits a lot from single target focus spell attacks that can be combined into a spellstrike. The premiere options are the Psychic's Imaginary weapon and the Cleric/paladin's Fire ray (Cleric preferred for the cantrips and potential to add utility spells)
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Any reason, other than flavor (which I know can be a deal-breaker), to go with the multiclassed cleric archetype instead of a multiclassed witch with a divine patron?
Well, since the remaster, I don't think witches can get sanctified to Holy. So if you wanted divine lance to trigger weakness to Holy, cleric has that over witch.
I'm not sure if it'll work with Arcane Cascade though - because the AC would pick up the spirit damage, but I don't know if it also gets the holy trait?
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Any reason, other than flavor (which I know can be a deal-breaker), to go with the multiclassed cleric archetype instead of a multiclassed witch with a divine patron?Well, since the remaster, I don't think witches can get sanctified to Holy. So if you wanted divine lance to trigger weakness to Holy, cleric has that over witch.
I'm not sure if it'll work with Arcane Cascade though - because the AC would pick up the spirit damage, but I don't know if it also gets the holy trait?
My Starlit Span Magus MC Cleric will never use Arcane Cascade anyway.
Hmm. A divine witch? Still intel as my main stat. That might be interesting. A free familiar with a few powers, though I don't like that it lacks the undying quality.
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When selecting the multiclass for a magus it's not that crucial that the other class is also Intelligence-based. I mean, it's nice if it is, but you can cope really well if it isn't. Much more so than most other casters could.
Because Spellstrike is based on your attack roll and nowadays because cantrip damage isn't based on your ability score, a "wisdom based" Divine Lance is pretty identical to an "intelligence based" one. Except that the cleric archetype can get you sanctified and allow you to trigger weakness to Holy.
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When selecting the multiclass for a magus it's not that crucial that the other class is also Intelligence-based. I mean, it's nice if it is, but you can cope really well if it isn't. Much more so than most other casters could.
Because Spellstrike is based on your attack roll and nowadays because cantrip damage isn't based on your ability score, a "wisdom based" Divine Lance is pretty identical to an "intelligence based" one. Except that the cleric archetype can get you sanctified and allow you to trigger weakness to Holy.
Not to mention high WIS is much more useful than high INT.
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When selecting the multiclass for a magus it's not that crucial that the other class is also Intelligence-based. I mean, it's nice if it is, but you can cope really well if it isn't. Much more so than most other casters could.
Because Spellstrike is based on your attack roll and nowadays because cantrip damage isn't based on your ability score, a "wisdom based" Divine Lance is pretty identical to an "intelligence based" one. Except that the cleric archetype can get you sanctified and allow you to trigger weakness to Holy.
The main advantage of Witch over Cleric isn't having your spellcasting attribute align for saves, it's just that getting 14 Wis early is stretching your starting attributes pretty thin. You could forgo INT entirely but then that hurts your base spellcasting which somewhat undermines the advantages of diversifying your spellstrike options in the first place.
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When selecting the multiclass for a magus it's not that crucial that the other class is also Intelligence-based. I mean, it's nice if it is, but you can cope really well if it isn't. Much more so than most other casters could.
Because Spellstrike is based on your attack roll and nowadays because cantrip damage isn't based on your ability score, a "wisdom based" Divine Lance is pretty identical to an "intelligence based" one. Except that the cleric archetype can get you sanctified and allow you to trigger weakness to Holy.
If you are using Expansive Spellstrike as I plan to use, intelligence becomes important as I will use quite a few save spells.
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Yeah I'm curious to see if an eventual remaster of the magus is going to have a different take on expansive spellstrike. With the disappearance of a lot of spell attack cantrips, maybe expansive spellstrike needs to be a core feature and not an optional feat?
But it IS viable to build an Int 10 magus and just use your few spell slots for things that don't use saving throws. True Strike, Stoneskin, Haste all don't care about it. Nor do Ignition or Gauging Claw.
You could even do a high-charisma magus who mostly leans on cantrips you get from ancestry feats. Your spellcasting proficiency now scales across all traditions so that's solved.
I really like that magus gets to make choices that would look really painful on other casters.
Yeah I'm curious to see if an eventual remaster of the magus is going to have a different take on expansive spellstrike. With the disappearance of a lot of spell attack cantrips, maybe expansive spellstrike needs to be a core feature and not an optional feat?
But it IS viable to build an Int 10 magus and just use your few spell slots for things that don't use saving throws. True Strike, Stoneskin, Haste all don't care about it. Nor do Ignition or Gauging Claw.
You could even do a high-charisma magus who mostly leans on cantrips you get from ancestry feats. Your spellcasting proficiency now scales across all traditions so that's solved.
I really like that magus gets to make choices that would look really painful on other casters.
I think a class feature would be better.
One of the reasons I wanted expansive spellstrike this time around is they have more effective AoE cantrips. Timber, Caustic Blast, Haunting Hymn, and similar AoE cantrips are pretty nice with Expansive Spellstrike, especially with Starlit Span.
Electric Arc and Slashing Gust don't work with Starlit Span as they target two creatures which Expansive Spellstrike doesn't change. But Causing Blast, Timber, and Haunting Hymn are area of effect, which Expansive Spellstrike does work with. I'm figuring that would be pretty nice with Starlit Span.
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Yeah I'm curious to see if an eventual remaster of the magus is going to have a different take on expansive spellstrike. With the disappearance of a lot of spell attack cantrips, maybe expansive spellstrike needs to be a core feature and not an optional feat?
But it IS viable to build an Int 10 magus and just use your few spell slots for things that don't use saving throws. True Strike, Stoneskin, Haste all don't care about it. Nor do Ignition or Gauging Claw.
You could even do a high-charisma magus who mostly leans on cantrips you get from ancestry feats. Your spellcasting proficiency now scales across all traditions so that's solved.
I really like that magus gets to make choices that would look really painful on other casters.
I think a class feature would be better.
One of the reasons I wanted expansive spellstrike this time around is they have more effective AoE cantrips. Timber, Caustic Blast, Haunting Hymn, and similar AoE cantrips are pretty nice with Expansive Spellstrike, especially with Starlit Span.
Electric Arc and Slashing Gust don't work with Starlit Span as they target two creatures which Expansive Spellstrike doesn't change. But Causing Blast, Timber, and Haunting Hymn are area of effect, which Expansive Spellstrike does work with. I'm figuring that would be pretty nice with Starlit Span.
I could see a class feature enabling the use of save spells with Spellstrike against the single target of your attack. Hopefully with the degree of success of your attack affecting the result of your target's save.
And then a feat that expands this to the current definition of Expansive Spellstrike. Again hopefully with your degree of success affecting the result of your target's save.
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Right now, Expansive Spellstrike vs Spell Attack:
ES: separate saving throw, but the spell goes off unless your weapon attack critically fails.
SA: no separate attack roll. All or nothing.
I don't think it'd be quite fair for a critical on the attack roll to make the enemy's save result worse, because then save spells would be much better than spell attacks. Unless you also do it the other way, that enemy saves are a step better if your weapon attack fails. But that would be worse than the situation now.
ES is already pretty good with cone and line spells. It's not always easy to catch two enemies in a line, because you need to line up three points (you and both of them). But if the line starts on one enemy, it's trivial to catch both of them. Similarly with cones, being able to start a cone on an enemy instead of in front of you can make it much easier to catch multiple enemies and no allies. Or even to angle cones around corners.
(And with Starlit Span it's even more ridiculous. Cone of Cold is really funny. Enervation is also pretty nice.)
Shocking Grasp enough said. However Starlit Span has it's own issues which may make or break magus at the end of the day but that's not really a problem. IT's a problem if people keep trying to do something silly like these so called
"Remastered Only tables" I keep hearing about. Which by the design would not allow Magus since it is Legacy content so why is everyone talking like you can't take legacy content? Shocking Grasp is STILL a legal spell if Magus is legal at your table!
The problem is just ES forces you to use a sub-par attribute. Not many people like INT around these parts and for good reason. It is only good for INT classes or Recall Knowledge which Knowledge might be power but knowledge can also hurt when you can't use the knowledge given, such as.
"This creature is weak to silver." - Everyone realizing they don't have silver so you just wasted 1 action learning valuable information which turned into wasted information because no one has a silver weapon.
You could easily just move those points into INT into CON or WIS which increases your defenses unless you want more Wizard/Magys (Arcane) slots then keep 14 INT then start increasing your more defensive stats, I.E CON, DEX, WIS.
At least at my tables no one every uses ES because they rather do All or Nothing since it feels good to only need to roll once and not rely on the DM to roll as well. Not to mention SS is really good if you flank with someone giving you a effective +2 or play the BS Starlit Span and just spam SS every turn. Which in theory should out-damage any other Magus at the table.
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Shocking Grasp enough said. However Starlit Span has it's own issues which may make or break magus at the end of the day but that's not really a problem. IT's a problem if people keep trying to do something silly like these so called
"Remastered Only tables" I keep hearing about. Which by the design would not allow Magus since it is Legacy content so why is everyone talking like you can't take legacy content? Shocking Grasp is STILL a legal spell if Magus is legal at your table!
The problem is just ES forces you to use a sub-par attribute. Not many people like INT around these parts and for good reason. It is only good for INT classes or Recall Knowledge which Knowledge might be power but knowledge can also hurt when you can't use the knowledge given, such as.
"This creature is weak to silver." - Everyone realizing they don't have silver so you just wasted 1 action learning valuable information which turned into wasted information because no one has a silver weapon.
You could easily just move those points into INT into CON or WIS which increases your defenses unless you want more Wizard/Magys (Arcane) slots then keep 14 INT then start increasing your more defensive stats, I.E CON, DEX, WIS.
At least at my tables no one every uses ES because they rather do All or Nothing since it feels good to only need to roll once and not rely on the DM to roll as well. Not to mention SS is really good if you flank with someone giving you a effective +2 or play the BS Starlit Span and just spam SS every turn. Which in theory should out-damage any other Magus at the table.
Why do I feel people always forget that most spells actually have some effect even when the opponent successfully saves ?
I took Expansive Spellstrike for my pre-Remaster Starlit Span Magus MC Cleric simply because it let her reliably inflict vitality damage on undead through Vitality Lash.
Only on a crit success will she deal no Vitality damage. Max INT is not required.
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I can understand not wanting to build for max int for your first magus or to optimize spellstrike for single target spellattack rolls.
The magus isn't a class with just one build. The feats exist to build a blasting or spell save magus as well, which means maxing int is a good idea. I even wish they had an option to give the Magus Str, Dex, or Int as their key ability as others have said, a spell is only lost on a critical fail with Expansive Spellstrike.
With a Starlit Span magus, you don't really need strength. So you can focus heavily on dex, intel, wisdom, and con. Str is a very minor boost to bow damage. You can focus on blasting or save spells of all kinds that are hostile and can hit a target or targets. It allows much more effective use of lines and cones as you can position them better than a magus who cannot position from range.
One of the Starlit Span magus builds is definitely a good range blasting or spell save build that relies more intelligence. This build can be very effective with things like Scroll Striker where you can use your intelligence stat to craft a bunch of scrolls to increase blasting power.
You can still build a single target magus that only cares about attack rolls and dumps intel, while also playing an intel-focused blaster magus that relies on saves. Both are possible.
That is why the magus is probably one of the best designed classes in the game other than perhaps the AoO going off when melee spellstriking. After experiencing this against werewolves, it can be quite brutal.
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Why do I feel people always forget that most spells actually have some effect even when the opponent successfully saves ?
I took Expansive Spellstrike for my pre-Remaster Starlit Span Magus MC Cleric simply because it let her reliably inflict vitality damage on undead through Vitality Lash.
Only on a crit success will she deal no Vitality damage. Max INT is...
Because spending what is effectively 3 actions and a spell slot to do very little feels bad. It's *something* if you can exploit a weakness, but it's extremely underwhelming. And if you don't max the casting stat for the spell, it's going to happen a LOT. Its not like Magus has enough spell slots to have that happening all the time.
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You could even do a high-charisma magus who mostly leans on cantrips you get from ancestry feats. Your spellcasting proficiency now scales across all traditions so that's solved.
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Alternatively, Psychic Archetype gives access to the Ancestral Mind feat which allows the use of Int for ancestry-based cantrips and spells. So an Int-focused Magi can lean on those ancestral options, too.
The fey-touched gnome heritage is a particularly nice option in this case, since it gives access to the entire list of common primal cantrips and the cantrip can be changed once a day.
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Because spending what is effectively 3 actions and a spell slot to do very little feels bad. It's *something* if you can exploit a weakness, but it's extremely underwhelming. And if you don't max the casting stat for the spell, it's going to happen a LOT. Its not like Magus has enough spell slots to have that happening all the time.Why do I feel people always forget that most spells actually have some effect even when the opponent successfully saves ?
I took Expansive Spellstrike for my pre-Remaster Starlit Span Magus MC Cleric simply because it let her reliably inflict vitality damage on undead through Vitality Lash.
Only on a crit success will she deal no Vitality damage. Max INT is...
Vitality Lash is a cantrip that goes against a fort save which can be weak on undead. Hitting certain saving throws can be far more effective than going after AC. Giants and dragons usually have weaker reflex saves than AC.
Since it is not hard to focus on intel and dex as a starlit span magus, you can often have the best of both worlds with expansive spellstrike.
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That is why the magus is probably one of the best designed classes in the game other than perhaps the AoO going off when melee spellstriking. After experiencing this against werewolves, it can be quite brutal.
It's why the Elemental Wrath cantrip is so popular among Magi despite its comparatively low damage. No somatic components so no manipulate trait.
Because spending what is effectively 3 actions and a spell slot to do very little feels bad. It's *something* if you can exploit a weakness, but it's extremely underwhelming. And if you don't max the casting stat for the spell, it's going to happen a LOT. Its not like Magus has enough spell slots to have that happening all the time.Why do I feel people always forget that most spells actually have some effect even when the opponent successfully saves ?
I took Expansive Spellstrike for my pre-Remaster Starlit Span Magus MC Cleric simply because it let her reliably inflict vitality damage on undead through Vitality Lash.
Only on a crit success will she deal no Vitality damage. Max INT is...
Vitality Lash is a cantrip that goes against a fort save which can be weak on undead. Hitting certain saving throws can be far more effective than going after AC. Giants and dragons usually have weaker reflex saves than AC.
Since it is not hard to focus on intel and dex as a starlit span magus, you can often have the best of both worlds with expansive spellstrike.
Expansive Spellstrike does discard some of the ways you can game the attack roll with Sure Strike or Hero Points, though.
And your saves really tail off compared to other casters as you miss out on Legendary proficiency and will also likely be behind in modifiers.
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Because spending what is effectively 3 actions and a spell slot to do very little feels bad. It's *something* if you can exploit a weakness, but it's extremely underwhelming. And if you don't max the casting stat for the spell, it's going to happen a LOT. Its not like Magus has enough spell slots to have that happening all the time.Why do I feel people always forget that most spells actually have some effect even when the opponent successfully saves ?
I took Expansive Spellstrike for my pre-Remaster Starlit Span Magus MC Cleric simply because it let her reliably inflict vitality damage on undead through Vitality Lash.
Only on a crit success will she deal no Vitality damage. Max INT is...
Vitality Lash is a cantrip that goes against a fort save which can be weak on undead. Hitting certain saving throws can be far more effective than going after AC. Giants and dragons usually have weaker reflex saves than AC.
Since it is not hard to focus on intel and dex as a starlit span magus, you can often have the best of both worlds with expansive spellstrike.
Expansive Spellstrike does discard some of the ways you can game the attack roll with Sure Strike or Hero Points, though.
And your saves really tail off compared to other casters as you miss out on Legendary proficiency and will also likely be behind in modifiers.
You'll still end up doing more damage if you're multi-attacking every hit.
Don't really understand why this some either or in anyone's mind. You build up intel and you build up dex, so you have a great stat in each. You mix up aoe spellstrike and regular spellstrike as needed.
Why do people in these discussion paint this as some absolute? Like the Starlit Span Spellstriker suddenly can't single target attack with Spellstrike? It changes nothing, but allows more AoE attacking and blasting which will be more damage while barely impacting single target spellstriking. So there is no difference other than deciding when to AoE spellstrike and when to single target with an attack spell.
It expands options with only a moderate reduction of maybe 1 on the attack roll for spell attack spellstriking.
Because spending what is effectively 3 actions and a spell slot to do very little feels bad. It's *something* if you can exploit a weakness, but it's extremely underwhelming. And if you don't max the casting stat for the spell, it's going to happen a LOT. Its not like Magus has enough spell slots to have that happening all the time.Why do I feel people always forget that most spells actually have some effect even when the opponent successfully saves ?
I took Expansive Spellstrike for my pre-Remaster Starlit Span Magus MC Cleric simply because it let her reliably inflict vitality damage on undead through Vitality Lash.
Only on a crit success will she deal no Vitality damage. Max INT is...
Vitality Lash is a cantrip that goes against a fort save which can be weak on undead. Hitting certain saving throws can be far more effective than going after AC. Giants and dragons usually have weaker reflex saves than AC.
Since it is not hard to focus on intel and dex as a starlit span magus, you can often have the best of both worlds with expansive spellstrike.
Expansive Spellstrike does discard some of the ways you can game the attack roll with Sure Strike or Hero Points, though.
And your saves really tail off compared to other casters as you miss out on Legendary proficiency and will also likely be behind in modifiers.
You'll still end up doing more damage if you're multi-attacking every hit.
Don't really understand why this some either or in anyone's mind. You build up intel and you build up dex, so you have a great stat in each. You mix up aoe spellstrike and regular spellstrike as needed.
Why do people in these discussion paint this as some absolute? Like the Starlit Span Spellstriker suddenly can't single target attack with Spellstrike? It changes nothing, but allows more AoE attacking and blasting which will be more damage while barely impacting single target...
Just saying there are particular pitfalls here. Your save-based spells might be equal or -1 to a full caster but at level 20 you'll be -4 (two points of proficiency, two points of modifier). All those CR+4 enemies are balanced against the modifiers of a full caster.
Knowing that that dip is coming and preparing for it at the end may be wise.
I also find that limited spell slots can mean you don't have the flexibility to target a weak damage type and a weak save at the same time like other casters with more choices.
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...Because spending what is effectively 3 actions and a spell slot to do very little feels bad. It's *something* if you can exploit a weakness, but it's extremely underwhelming. And if you don't max the casting stat for the spell, it's going to happen a LOT. Its not like Magus has enough spell slots to have that happening all the time.Why do I feel people always forget that most spells actually have some effect even when the opponent successfully saves ?
I took Expansive Spellstrike for my pre-Remaster Starlit Span Magus MC Cleric simply because it let her reliably inflict vitality damage on undead through Vitality Lash.
Only on a crit success will she deal no Vitality damage. Max INT is...
Vitality Lash is a cantrip that goes against a fort save which can be weak on undead. Hitting certain saving throws can be far more effective than going after AC. Giants and dragons usually have weaker reflex saves than AC.
Since it is not hard to focus on intel and dex as a starlit span magus, you can often have the best of both worlds with expansive spellstrike.
Expansive Spellstrike does discard some of the ways you can game the attack roll with Sure Strike or Hero Points, though.
And your saves really tail off compared to other casters as you miss out on Legendary proficiency and will also likely be behind in modifiers.
You'll still end up doing more damage if you're multi-attacking every hit.
Don't really understand why this some either or in anyone's mind. You build up intel and you build up dex, so you have a great stat in each. You mix up aoe spellstrike and regular spellstrike as needed.
Why do people in these discussion paint this as some absolute? Like the Starlit Span Spellstriker suddenly can't single target attack with Spellstrike? It changes nothing, but allows more AoE attacking and blasting which will be more damage while
CR+4 enemies are usually single bosses, so you will switch to single target attack cantrips.
You would use the AoE blasting more on mook fights or CR equal to lower.
You can do both with only a very small loss of efficiency likely barely noticeable in a coordinated group debuffing and setting up enemies for defeat.
CR+4 enemies are usually single bosses, so you will switch to single target attack cantrips.
You would use the AoE blasting more on mook fights or CR equal to lower.
You can do both with only a very small loss of efficiency likely barely noticeable in a coordinated group debuffing and setting up enemies for defeat.
CR19 and CR20 enemies will still assume the legendary casting progression and key ability modifier stats that you won't have. You may still very much have good success, I just imagine your individual contributions will be somewhat less impactful at high levels assuming the rest of the group is constant in their progression.
I'm not criticizing the build so much as I'm saying the math shifts and may play differently.
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So far I'm liking the build. The addition of more AoE cantrips has made Expansive Spellstrike more valuable to a Magus. Timber is a nice little AoE hammer to use on enemies from range as a Starlit Span.
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Because spending what is effectively 3 actions and a spell slot to do very little feels bad. It's *something* if you can exploit a weakness, but it's extremely underwhelming. And if you don't max the casting stat for the spell, it's going to happen a LOT. Its not like Magus has enough spell slots to have that happening all the time.Why do I feel people always forget that most spells actually have some effect even when the opponent successfully saves ?
I took Expansive Spellstrike for my pre-Remaster Starlit Span Magus MC Cleric simply because it let her reliably inflict vitality damage on undead through Vitality Lash.
Only on a crit success will she deal no Vitality damage. Max INT is...
What DF said. If there is no advantage to be gained by using a save spell, just use a regular attack spell.