This spell states your undetectable. Now is this basically like (H) Invisibility on steroids. What I mean is can you attack and still be undetected or do you become Hidden to the enemy at that point?
"It’s still possible for a creature to find the target by Seeking, looking for disturbed dust, hearing gaps in the sound spectrum, or finding
some other way to discover the presence of an otherwise undetectable creature."
Ahh Graystone my old friend, I've come to talk with you again. So basically constantly undetected unless they spend an action to Seek, that is amazing.
Atalius wrote: Ahh Graystone my old friend, I've come to talk with you again. So basically constantly undetected unless they spend an action to Seek, that is amazing. it's rank 8, so it should be amazing. ;)
In a sense you kind of become Hidden when you act (but not literally).
Enemies can choose to target the square from which they detected the effects of your actions to originate, and if you're actually still there, you get targeted as you would if you were Hidden (DC 11 flat). So you want to use at least one action each turn on something that isn't detectable (whether moving or otherwise), that way they can never be sure if you've moved or not and are thus unlikely to gamble on hitting you.
Links to previous threads on the topic.
oldest.
a bit more recent.
very recent.
Does True Sight counter Disappearance?
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If it passes the counteract check, so probably not at base rank 6.
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The Total Package wrote: Does True Sight counter Disappearance? Why do you need Truesight and silly counteract checks when with the new clarification/errata See the Unseen simply works against Disappearance without any checks? At least as I understand that errata. They mentioned See the Unseen but haven't clarified the interaction. The text is:
Quote: You shroud a creature from others’ senses. The target becomes invisible, but not merely to vision. The invisibility granted by disappearance applies to all precise senses an observer might have. It’s still possible for a creature to find the target by Seeking using various senses, looking for disturbed dust, hearing gaps in the sound spectrum, or finding some other way to discover the presence of a creature that is otherwise undetectable. I can't see here anything that prevents See the Unseen working for vision. And if it works for vision it doesn't matter that See the Unseen doesn't turn the other senses on.
Here's See the Unseen for reference:
Quote: Your gaze pierces through illusions and finds invisible creatures and spirits. You can see invisible creatures as though they weren't invisible, although their features are blurred, making them concealed and difficult to identify. You can also see incorporeal creatures, like ghosts, phased through an object from within 10 feet of an object's surface as blurry shapes seen through those objects. Subtler clues also grant you a +2 status bonus to checks you make to disbelieve illusions.
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Yes Disappearance now is basically a Heightened 4 Invisibility with 10 minutes duration that not only acts against vision but also to any other precision sense that the creatures may have like Sykevers (Nightstriders), Morrignas, Ozthooms, Ravener Husks, Vanyvers (Nightwings), Carnivorous Blob, Akhanas, Gosreg, Unrisen, Aolaz, Bandersnatches, Esenethes, Green Mans,Nasurgeths, Requiem Dragons and other creatures that have other precise senses beyond vision (there are lot more specially with life sense).
But it no more acts against imprecise senses, what means that you are no longer only detectable by Seeking actions even if the Disappeared creature didn't Sneak or a Truesight that counteracted it.
See the Unseen was unclear before because "count as invisible" was open to the wrong interpretation that it wasn't really invisibility and that this allows to Disappearance to ignore it. Now becomes clear that Disappearance works like normal Invisibility against it.
It does create the weird situation that when playing against it, it's preferable to have imprecise hearing rather than precise hearing. Because it specifically overcomes precise hearing, it's the old situation of becoming undetected through simply Striding (because there is simply no sense at all left that can detect the location). Whereas against imprecise hearing, they'd have to Sneak. More of a corner case though
In reality, most imprecise senses are useless in most cases.
Virtually all creatures have hearing as their default imprecise sense (unless their senses indicate otherwise, or they are under the effect of the Deafened condition). Therefore, it makes no difference whether the creature has other imprecise senses or not, as it already locates the target by sound.
The other imprecise senses, in practice, are only useful for preventing Sneak without Foil Senses.
Additionally, I don't think that creatures that have gained hearing as a precise sense would lose it as an imprecise sense. My understanding is that both are retained.
yellowpete wrote: It does create the weird situation that when playing against it, it's preferable to have imprecise hearing rather than precise hearing. Because it specifically overcomes precise hearing, it's the old situation of becoming undetected through simply Striding (because there is simply no sense at all left that can detect the location). Whereas against imprecise hearing, they'd have to Sneak. More of a corner case though Yeah. Even more weird that it seems you can't say that if you have precise hearing you also have imprecise hearing. It sounds logical (to me), but breaks this spell completely and becomes very strange when applied to vision.
YuriP wrote: Additionally, I don't think that creatures that have gained hearing as a precise sense would lose it as an imprecise sense. My understanding is that both are retained. Or, you are right. Imprecise can only give Hidden. And that's exactly what Invisible become when detected or without Stealthing. No contradiction, it seems. You can detect with Seeking, but that's allowed, and you won't get any better or worse having imprecise hearing.
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