This is the next character in my family group that needs to be built - a Sylph Hunter. Now, I already have a vanilla Hunter that used Outflank and Paired Opportunists to generate a bunch of AoOs. So I'd like to do something different for this one.
Both the Plant Master and the Divine Hunter archetypes look interesting. (And fit within the theme and backstory.) Plants might not be the best in terms of power, but still neat. And losing bonus feats is never great, but it's hardly crippling. Plus they can stack if I want, though it's not why I picked them.
I originally thought of doing an archery build since Sylphs have a Con penalty. I might still do that for group balance as there are already 6 front-liners (3 PCs and 3 animal companions), 2 ranged attackers (not including this guy), and 3 focused on casting. I know I don't really have to balance stuff out like this since I'm not PLAYING them all at the same time, but it feels right to me.
Anyone have any thoughts?
well to hunt a Sylph first you need some Sylph's bait...
joking aside, since you can get airborn with sylph's feats id try and get an archer focused one and a flaying companion. try and get deflect arrows or something along that line to gt away from others doing to you what you do to them.
the cloud gazer feat along with the right spells\items can be a real boon to you.
No matter what build u choose (assuming your build doesn’t trade out Animal Focus) I recommend taking the Planar Focus feat. It adds several additional focus that have quite a bit of utility such as burrow speed, water breathing, and feather fall, not to mention bonus fire damage to all melee attacks. Can be taken at level 5 with 5 ranks in Knowledge (planes). As a Sylph, Elemental Strike is also an option to add lightning damage to all your weapon attacks. If you do go with Plant Master I would suggest taking the Sapling Treant pet (it’s found under the Treesinger Druid archetype but as a plant companion it should still be selectable with Plant Master. Your GM may disagree however) and call him Groot :)
I'll take a look at those. And ask about the treant.
Most of the feats are going to be standard archery ones. I get Precise at level 2 as a bonus, which helps speed things along. So that's PBS at 1, Precise Shot at 2, and Rapid Shot at 3. Clustered Shots needs 6 BAB, which means it's not happening until level 9. Which leaves level 5 and 7 free.
For an archer have you considered the forester archetype? Bonus combat feats help alot. I played a short campaign (up to 4th level?) as one and it was a useful archer scout.
In the Advanced Race Guide in which the Treesinger Druid is found the list of Plant Companions is kind of like a sidebar (printed with the archetype but under a separate header if I remember correctly). I think Paizo either forgot about them or for whatever reason decided not to reprint them in Ultimate Wilderness with all the rest of the plant companions. I can’t see why a character with access to plant companions in general would not be able to select one from that list but your GM may disagree of course. If you are interested in either a plant or vermin companion but don’t like the archetypes that grant them, the Curious Companion feat allows you to select a companion from either list without taking the archetype. All you need is the Animal Companion class feature to take the feat. If you are at all interested in vermin companions I like and recommend the Giant Solifugid as it has 3 primary attacks and gains pounce and rend at lvl 4. The Unexpected Intellectual pet archetype will give ur giant bug INT 2 so it can gain feats and skills but will cost you the share spells ability.
Forester gives up its pet. And I like pets. I'll take a look at that bug.
I took a look through all the plant companions. There's a flytrap that gets 3 bite attacks. And I can probably get a Slam attack through Evolved Companion. That's a pretty decent amount of natural attacks.
Ok. When it comes to Hunters, most of the teamwork feats are better for melee than they are ranged. Probably because the animal companion can benefit from the melee ones but not really from the ranged ones. And since I don't plan to ride the companion, it won't be considered adjacent to me.
I could have this character be melee and have the rogue or skald be the last archer. But Sylphs either have a Con penalty, which is bad for front-liners, or a Wis penalty, which is bad for Hunters. So it's either make the Hunter an archer, or switch the classes with one of the siblings, making a Sylph Shaman and Oread Hunter.
I want to keep the Plant Master archetype either way, just cause it sounds fun. If I go Oread, I could go with a reach weapon and trip stuff, getting AoOs from the plant. If I stay with an archer Sylph, I think I'll stack Divine Hunter on top of Plant Master. Trade in the teamwork feats for a domain.
Decisions, decisions.
Just took a closer read of the Plant Master archetype. Under the Plant Bond feature it specifically states that you can choose plant companions from page 26 of the Advanced Race Guide. This is the page that the Treesinger Druids list of plant companions is found so you are definitely allowed to choose any companion from that list if you want. On another point if you only want to look/count as a Sylph you could take Human as your Race and take the Planar Heritage feat at first level with your Human bonus feat. That would allow you to take a better stat block for melee combat than a Sylph would normally have but that might seem like a bit of a cheat on the theme you are going for. Just throwing that out there as an option.
Yeah, it would be a cheat. The whole point of this group is that they're not human.
I'm going through all the domains to see what might be good for this.
Air with the cloud subdomain gives some lightning attacks. Decent for when I need to do damage other than a regular attack. Weather has lightning attacks too, but I think I like the Air ones better.
Liberation's first domain power is good for movement, though an archer needs it a bit less than a martial. The other power is definitely handy, suppressing fear effects from my allies.
The Plant Domain is thematic, but not helpful for an archer.
And the archetype specifically calls out not getting a second animal companion from the Animal domain. So that's useless and the subdomains aren't helpful.
The rest don't seem helpful either. But there are so many that it's easy to miss one.
Have you looked at the druid domains? I figure if anyone meets this, "Other nature-themed classes with access to domains may select an animal or terrain domain in place of a regular domain." it is a hunter. Eagle, vulture and elemental air seem fitting.
Eagle does look nice, but I'm wondering if I would actually get the familiar from it.
Why wouldn't you?
Well, the archetype does say that the Animal domain doesn't give another animal companion. So that might mean not getting any pets from any domains. After all, a druid that takes one of the domains doesn't get an animal companion. I can ask the GM though.
So, GM is gonna be correct, cuz that's how it works, but a familiar is not an animal companion, so denying it to you would be a houserule.
The swamp domain might be a good choice as it allows you to channel positive energy to heal animals, vermin, and plants. Would be handy to keep ur plant buddy alive :) Also gives you blindsense/blindsight for fog, vegetation, and water. Goes well with obscuring mist.
Why don't instead of hunter you go for something more rare, like the brawler, you gain martial flexibility which gives you a lot of strategy to each battle, if you want a animals companion take the nature soul and animal ally and you will have the animal like a Ranger, and focus from there in marksmanship, the first rol for everything in range attack is having a good attack and since brawler are fast progression it will work nicely
Hm..... being able to keep my plant buddy alive would be handy. Do regular healing spells affect plant creatures? That would determine my choice.
I'd like to keep to hunter, thanks. I've got a theme going on and want to keep to classes that are either nature themed or could be considered either wild or at least not something that would require civilization. As well as not overlapping with my other character group.
Regular healing works just fine on plants. And keep in mind that with spell sharing you can target your green friend with hunter spells that normally can't target it, including personal spells.
I'm a little confused here you what a spellcaster hunter, a marksmanship hunter or a pet hunter because is hard for me to say what you like for this character
You know I don't have to choose one of those 3, right? The Hunter is a pet class with spells and gives the option for Precise Shot as a bonus feat. Even focusing my build on archery doesn't mean I'm never going to be casting a spell.
I think I'm going to go with the Eagle domain. It's handy and gets me another pet. If I put my Sylph into a game and the GM says no hawk, I'll use Cloud instead.
So a Divine Plant Master Hunter Sylph with the Eagle domain. Now onto feats. As mentioned earlier, the first few will be PBS at 1, Precise Shot at 2, and Rapid Shot at 3. Both Clustered Shots and Manyshot need BAB 6, so they aren't happening until level 9. I could probably put Evolved Companion to get the Flytrap a Slam attack. It has roots, it can hit something with them.
Not sure what to put in at level 7. The useful archer feats after the first 3 tend to have high BAB, so none of them can go there. I suppose I could do another Evolved Companion and get the Flytrap a boost in its natural armor. Or take Weapon Focus or something.
Spirit's gift is a very flavorful feat. Deadly aim is, of course, a standard.
I still recommend Planar Focus. Giving your plant fire damage to all of its melee attacks might be good and dealing ice damage to all melee attackers is also cool. Being able to buff natural armor or gain a swim/burrow speed is also situationally useful. Don’t forget that you can apply these focus to yourself for minutes/lvl as well. That would be my choice anyway.
Another option could be taking the Totem Beast feat. This would let you permanently add one of the focus from the base hunters list to your pet if there was something there that you wanted that you can’t find on the Plant Master focus list such as Bear for the CON bonus
Planar Focus does look pretty handy. Extra damage coming and going is fun.
I think I'll take Totem Beast too. The plant focuses aren't helpful so getting Bull permanently is great. Especially since I don't think a flytrap can wear magic items. Maybe I'll give it a couple of ioun stones or something.
So far that makes it this:
1: Point-Blank Shot
2: Precise Shot
3: Rapid Shot
5: Totem Beast (Better to get the one that gives an accuracy boost and a damage boost first.)
7: Planar Focus
9: Clustered Shots
I might put Evolved Companion at 11. The Flytrap has 3 bite attacks to start with, so getting a Slam later isn't going to hurt it. Might not even go with a 4th attack. Might go with more nat ac or higher damage dice instead. Guess I'll see when I get there.
If you want to be really cheesy you could take an inquisition instead of a domain. If you choose the Chivalry inquisition you can gain the cavalier mount class feature and have a 2nd animal companion.
If you want to be really cheesy you could take an inquisition instead of a domain. If you choose the Chivalry inquisition you can gain the cavalier mount class feature and have a 2nd animal companion.
Well, ymmv, but every GM I know (and myself) would rule that the same as taking the Animal domain.
Especially since I plan to take the eagle domain for an eagle familiar.
I just looked it up. The flytrap has the belt and eyes slots. That's it.
I did say it was cheesy ;) technically the wording only speaks of the animal domain not inquisitions but I agree I kinda goes against the spirit of the rule if not the actual RAW. It would be cool to have something like an Axe Beak as a mount tho :) Just out of curiosity what do you want the Familiar for? Just aesthetics or do you have a particular role you want it to play? The Protector archetype is pretty popular of course. On the other hand you could take the Mauler archetype and the Underside Mount feat and ride your eagle into battle. That would be pretty neat.
I just like pets. And with a 60 fly speed, it could carry a touch spell like CLW over to the flytrap if needed. Plus the two powers are fairly handy. A swift action untyped bonus to one attack is great, especially at low levels. And later I get evasion, although it is only while flying. I will be getting Fly as a domain spell at level 7.
A person on discord has suggested that I put Manyshot before Clustered Shots for DPR purposes. And that I should put Deadly Aim in there too. Personally, I don't like Deadly Aim or Power Attack. I don't mind a penalty to my attack roll if it means I'm getting an extra attack. But a penalty to attack for a bit of extra damage, I don't want. You only do damage when you hit. More attacks means more chances to hit even with less accuracy. Less accuracy but the same amount of attacks means less chances to hit.
Ok, so this is the stat spread I'm looking at.
10 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 12 Int, 15 Wis, 13 Cha.
The Cha is needed for the Evolved Companion feat, if I decide to take it at some point. Since I'm going ranged, I don't need Str or Con that much.
Looks pretty reasonable for a 20 point build. The only suggestion I would make would be to dump INT down to 10 and bring up DEX to 17. That way at level 4 you could put your point from advancement into dex for a bonus to hit and AC. As a hunter you get plenty of skill points anyway and having a 12 INT won’t too much more for you than 10.
I was thinking of putting the boost into Wis to get 16. Hunters only have a 1/3 Will save. Though I could still drop Int to 10 and get the dex higher.
You could use your 8th level advancement for the WIS boost. Using one of your traits to take one of the Will save boosting traits would gain you almost as much benefit as a boost to WIS for the early game.
That's a good point.
Ok. So I've got the stats figured out as well as the feats up to level 9. Now I just need traits and to pick out the first feat for my Flytrap. I'm leaning towards Weapon Focus so it has a better chance to hit.
Unfortunately weapon focus is not an option as it requires BAB +1 and the rules state “Note that animal companions cannot select a feat with a requirement of base attack bonus +1 until they gain their second feat at 3 Hit Dice.” Even power attack is off the table as the flytrap only has a 12 strength. Combat reflexes is always a decent choice. Improved natural armor could be useful because I don’t think plants can wear armor. Dodge or Toughness are pretty common defensive choices.
Darn. Well, a defensive feat could work. Or maybe Improved Natural Attack to boost the damage average.
And yeah, no armor for the plant. They get a belt slot and an eye slot. That's it. The hawk familiar is going to have more slots for magic items. Including armor.
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Darn. Well, a defensive feat could work. Or maybe Improved Natural Attack to boost the damage average.
And yeah, no armor for the plant. They get a belt slot and an eye slot. That's it. The hawk familiar is going to have more slots for magic items. Including armor.
Improved natural attack requires BAB 4
Toughness maybe?
Oh right, I forgot about that requirement. Ok, so either Toughness, Dodge, or Improved Natural Armor. (I just checked that one, it's good to go.)
I suggest skill focus in perception since animals companion have more skill points in this skill and can help you to do the night watch while you are sleeping (since plants don't sleep) another feat I suggest is lighting reflex (she is a plant so AOE fire spell do more damage if they don't pass the save), run feat also helps a lot specially in difficult terrain where the speed is reduced
Those are all good points.
Ok. Now I just need traits. There aren't many Sylph traits that are any good. Reactionary is always handy, as are the traits that boost saves.
I suggest reincarnated since it's boost +2 vs fear and death spell (very good for lower level), focused discipline+2 vs compulsion and charms (mor chances to not go against your party of be stuck by a hold person), draconic destiny is very useful for you it's give you a +2 to become stable and increase your total constitution +2 to die (this mean that your constitution is treated as 14 instead of 12 for the propose to die)
I just realized something. This group of characters are siblings, which means I can give them all the Kin Bond trait. Once a day, if you fail a saving throw when a specific sibling is within 30 feet, you can reroll. You can only choose one sibling for it, but there are NINE of them. I think it'll work, at least in terms of the theme. When and if I get one of them into a game, I'll change the trait to something else.
So I guess that's all for the Hunter, other than writing the sheet down. The remaining siblings that need builds are the witch, skald, rogue, shaman, and sorcerer.