making a 2nd level monk. is it possible to take 1 level of monk(martial artist) & 1 level unchained monk(scaled fist)??? some abilities replace each other but does that mean you can't take the archetypes at all or just till u reach the level required for the replacement???
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These classes can be used alongside their original counterparts (although individual characters must use one version or the other exclusively).
You cannot be both a core monk and an unchained monk. Just as you can't be both a core rogue and an unchained rogue, etc.
Given that, you can't take both the martial artist and scaled fist archetypes as they both replace still mind.
You cannot be both a core monk and an unchained monnk??? aint they two different classes ?.
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I don't intend for this to come off as an attack or mean-spirited. But if a player is only using the internet for designing a character they will miss a lot of the caveats and clarifications that are right there in the book. Especially when it comes to material that looks really powerful without that context.
Now if your whole group, including the GM, are playing that way (and are OK with it) then sure - go ahead and have a PC with levels in both Core Monk and Unchained Monk! The Unchained book specifically says "you can't do that" but it's your game, do what your group wants to do!
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'Unchained' classes are alternative versions of existing classes that (as previously noted) can't be combined with the original version on a single character:
Since the release of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook, countless game sessions have revealed that certain classes have been pushing against their constraints, yearning to break free into something at once familiar and new. This chapter includes unchained versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner, as well as subsystems that alter character advancement. These classes can be used alongside their original counterparts (although individual characters must use one version or the other exclusively). Some feats, rage powers, rogue talents, and other rules might not work with the unchained classes, and such rules should be reviewed before being used with the new versions. Finally, with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace.
Barbarian: From a game balance perspective, the original barbarian serves her role admirably, but her mechanics require the player to recalculate numerous values once she enters a rage and keep track of a bevy of once-per-rage abilities. She can easily die in a fight due to the way that ending a rage lowers her hit points. The unchained barbarian significantly simplifies the rage bonus calculations, and she gains temporary hit points instead of raising and later decreasing her current and maximum hit points. Finally, she gains stronger versions of some of the weakest rage powers.
Monk: The original monk has many disparate abilities, which don't always work together and are inflexible. The unchained monk loosens up, gaining ki powers that allow greater customization. The unchained monk also has a full base attack bonus and an all-new flurry of blows.
Rogue: The original rogue has a niche thanks to her sneak attack and high number of skill ranks, but she is still somewhat underpowered. The unchained rogue can debilitate her enemies to dramatically alter her ability to hit or dodge them, gains a unique edge when using her favorite skills, and enjoys a significant boost to her rogue talents.
Summoner: The original summoner has plenty of innovative features, but he also lacks focus and theme. The unchained summoner gains an eidolon that fits among existing outsiders, gaining additional abilities and plenty of thematic flavor. Additionally, he has a revised spell list more in line with similar casters.
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You can have a CRB Monk and an Unchained Monk in the same party, but a character can not take levels in both versions.
Another thing to consider is that when you take an archetype it affects the whole class. Taking an archetype changes the class at every level including levels you do not have. You could have two archetypes that don’t change anything but the capstone ability of the class. Those two archetypes cannot be taken on the same character at any level including 1st level. It does not matter that you have not reached the level that they alter the same ability.
The above is correct. But also, you could try to talk it over with your GM. For instance, the unchained monk doesn’t have access to zen archer by the rules, yet I have seen 2 different parties use unchained zen archers.
In the case of taking a class twice, I’m not a fan because it feels abusive. Regardless, just please make sure you ask your GM politely and be prepared to receive a “no”
Well for my part ask your GM for what "house rules" he is going to impart in the game, if he doesn't mind to negate this rule you can go for it, but if he go for the rules the no you can't do it
oh ok thx i didn't kno You cannot be both a core class and an unchained class
Even if you could take a core class and an unchained it would be a bad idea. If they are treated as two separate classes that would mean the abilities would not stack. Your unarmed damage and other class features would be equal to the higher of the two classes instead of using the combined levels. You would also not gain new class features. For example, a 3rd level core monk/3rd level unchained monk would be doing 1d6 damage when using unarmed strike instead of 1d8.
Even if you could take a core class and an unchained it would be a bad idea. If they are treated as two separate classes that would mean the abilities would not stack.
With archetypes, I can very easily see the multiclass being very strong, for Monk at least. unMonk with a 1-level dip into Master of Many Styles sounds pretty swell, for example.
On the topic, there's been a few builds where I wished I could multiclass with the same class again (with different archetypes). Don't remember them all, but there was definitely a Shifter...
On the topic, there's been a few builds where I wished I could multiclass with the same class again (with different archetypes). Don't remember them all, but there was definitely a Shifter...
There have been a few times I have wished I could take levels in both Unchained Rogue and Ninja…
Unless you have a class with no level dependent class feature multiclassing in the same class is going to be incredibly weak. For example, the sneak attack from a core rogue and unchained rogue would not stack. The saving throws on the monk abilities would be based on the highest level achieved in one of the classes. You would delay access to your higher-level classes.
From what I can see on the shifter they would be hit just as hard as the monk. Your shifter aspect would not stack you would not be able to combine the aspects from the different “classes”. Your bonus from defensive Instinct would not stack and your bonus would be less because the level-based bonus would be tracked separately for each class. Your shifters claws would also be hampered by dividing your levels.
About the only thing that would be beneficial would be that you would have two separate sets of resources. This would allow you more uses of some limited resources, but the resources would usually be weaker. The shifter would have double the minutes of shifter aspect, but the level-based bonus would be weaker because of splitting your levels. I would rather have access to the higher-level abilities than more uses of the lower-level abilities.
From what I can see on the shifter they would be hit just as hard as the monk. Your shifter aspect would not stack you would not be able to combine the aspects from the different “classes”. Your bonus from defensive Instinct would not stack and your bonus would be less because the level-based bonus would be tracked separately for each class. Your shifters claws would also be hampered by dividing your levels.
Again, archetypes. I think the idea I had was 4 Levels in Weretouched Shifter for pounce with 5 primary natural attacks, 5 levels in Feyform Shifter for concealment and a fly speed. I don't need any abilities to directly stack for that to be good.
Sort of in reply to Melkiador here, one character I play is an unchained monk of the four winds. Normally this wouldn't be allowed because unMonk doesn't get Abundant Step, but the GM ruled that my 12th level Ki power will be Abundant Step, which then immediately gets replaced by Slow Time.
You cannot be both a core monk and an unchained monnk??? aint they two different classes ?.
You can be one or the other, they can't be mixed and matched because they are two separate versions of the same class. It's the same for all of the unchained classes. A similar rule applies to alternate classes, e.g., if you take levels of rogue you may not take any levels in ninja and vice versa.
IMO the unchained monk is a straight upgrade from the original. The only reason I would take the chained monk is to take an archetype that isn't available for the unchained version.
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