Pretty much title. It's an interesting topic to me
So far the only time I've seen advanced weapons get taken is because they are
1- objectively superior , we saw this with gnome flickmace, it's used to argue with a 1d8 one hand reach weapon with a good damage type and an incredible critical effect.
2- because the person gained access to it via an archetype so why not, bonus.
The issue is the value of feats and the value of becoming better in combat.
Due to how the game tries to build out wide instead of tall (options instead of power) as you level, anything that can literally make it so more damage or be more consistent in said damage are almost always considered great picks.
So for the price of a feat, class in case if fighter, or ancestry. You get access to specific advanced weapons. But class feat even for fighters advanced weapon training is a huge ask.
Ancestry feats are one of the rarer feats you get in the game. So spending your precious feat instead of getting spell like abilities, cantrips, swim speed, etc... Is kinda rough
But giving you access for free seems not right either.
Personally I'm hoping paizo releases a book in the next year that is full of archetypes as well as class archetypes that might give advanced weapon access at level 1 but in a way that is flavorful and maybe not the objectively no brain best option.
To be fair, I'm aware most advanced weapons are not strictly better given the way people value certain traits. But giving everyone advance weapons for free still seems unhelpful as an option as tables will just become full of falcata and flick mace and whatever other stronger weapon.
What are your thoughts?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
2- because the person gained access to it via an archetype so why not, bonus.
This.
Personally I'm hoping paizo releases a book in the next year that is full of archetypes as well as class archetypes that might give advanced weapon access at level 1 but in a way that is flavorful and maybe not the objectively no brain best option.
This.
To be fair, I'm aware most advanced weapons are not strictly better given the way people value certain traits. But giving everyone advance weapons for free still seems unhelpful as an option as tables will just become full of falcata and flick mace and whatever other stronger weapon.
And this.
Though probably in the reverse order.
I think that Advanced Weapons should exist and be a bit better than Martial weapons. I also think that buying proficiency to use an Advanced weapon should be easier and more reliable. It should still cost something though. Probably either a few General feats or an Archetype buy-in. And that should give at least the same proficiency with the Advanced weapon selected as the class gives for all of its other weapons.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd expand this to all weapons outside your starting ones, so martial weapons for rogues and just about anything for the poor wizard.
As for solutions, you could have a background for it [instead of the bonus skills and feat] and/or spend skill feats on it. That makes it a non-zero cost [it competes with other combat related feats like Titan Wrestler or Bon Mot] but no as onerous as ancestry/class feats.
Graystone, I don't think I quite agree with making it a background. That sounds a little too good.
But I could see a background that made you trained. And then another feat that got you scaling proficiency.
I really strongly believe that 2 feats (or 2 selections) is the appropriate cost for advanced weapons.
But I would support a background + general feat, 1 dedication + 1 archetype feat, or 2 general feats all as options to get scaling advanced weapon proficiency.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm already pretty hesitant about letting a background get you trained in an advanced weapon. I rather like that right now background is pretty close to a flavor choice. Even if you want a particular ability, skill or feat, they're still all close in quality and half a dozen backgrounds are all okay. Fast-tracking you for an advanced weapon is a bit like the fey foundling thing in PF1.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The deep backgrounds already allow for free adopted ancestry which is itself a 1 feat gateway to unconventional weaponry and every other human feat. I don't see why a background giving trained, and access for uncommon ones, in an advanced weapon would be out of line in that context.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sword Scion is a background from Kingmaker that gives access to Aldori Dueling Swords and makes them martial weapons for proficiency purposes. Having backgrounds that allow at least that much for other advanced weapons seems very reasonable now.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
One general feat for one advanced weapon seems fair to me.
As it stands, advanced weapon proficiency is often worth a single ancestry feat. General feats are your rarest type of feat, so a 1:1 conversion seems reasonable.
Most of the time Fleet or Canny Acumen will still be the stronger option anyways.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm already pretty hesitant about letting a background get you trained in an advanced weapon. I rather like that right now background is pretty close to a flavor choice. Even if you want a particular ability, skill or feat, they're still all close in quality and half a dozen backgrounds are all okay.
Well, I'm looking at Rare backgrounds where you trade that skill/lore/skill feat for things like an extra stat point [Amnesiac/Discarded Duplicate], an innate cantrip/spell [Blessed/Scion of Slayers/Sign Bound/Tyrant Witness], 1/day re-roll for atrack/save/skill [Genie-Blessed], +2 circumstance bonus to initiative [Saved by Clockwork] and ability to breathe underwater [Song of the Deep]: I's quite clear that backgrounds can offer things that are at least equal to a general/ancestry feat.
PS: and as pointed out, Sword Scion already does something similar.
Fast-tracking you for an advanced weapon is a bit like the fey foundling thing in PF1.
Don't we ALREADY have that with adopted [human/elf/ect] for advanced weapons? What's the difference shunting that to a 'weapon master' background? IMO, a background in a weapon sounds a LOT better than having to have yourself adopted by another race.
Sword Scion is a background from Kingmaker that gives access to Aldori Dueling Swords and makes them martial weapons for proficiency purposes. Having backgrounds that allow at least that much for other advanced weapons seems very reasonable now.What is kingmaker? Is it like Matt Colville's Kingdoms and Warefare for 5e? I've been looking for that kind of supplement for 2E.
Kingmaker is an adventure path from 1e that was popular enough to be republished for 2e. As far as I know there's nothing yet like Kingdoms and Warfare.
Sword Scion is a background from Kingmaker that gives access to Aldori Dueling Swords and makes them martial weapons for proficiency purposes. Having backgrounds that allow at least that much for other advanced weapons seems very reasonable now.What is kingmaker? Is it like Matt Colville's Kingdoms and Warefare for 5e? I've been looking for that kind of supplement for 2E.
As mentioned, Kingmaker is an adventure path where in you found your own kingdom (you start off with a charter from another near-by by not too near kingdom who has had trouble with bandits IIRC) and by the end of the first book you're developing your own country. In features a system to develop buildings and and provides a layer of country management on top of the normal combat and exploration systems.
Sword Scion is a background from Kingmaker that gives access to Aldori Dueling Swords and makes them martial weapons for proficiency purposes. Having backgrounds that allow at least that much for other advanced weapons seems very reasonable now.
Unless you find the AP feats to be often terribly balanced in relation to the rest of the game.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sword Scion is a background from Kingmaker that gives access to Aldori Dueling Swords and makes them martial weapons for proficiency purposes. Having backgrounds that allow at least that much for other advanced weapons seems very reasonable now.Unless you find the AP feats to be often terribly balanced in relation to the rest of the game.
It’s not a feat, though. It’s a background.
It’s not a feat, though. It’s a background.Sword Scion is a background from Kingmaker that gives access to Aldori Dueling Swords and makes them martial weapons for proficiency purposes. Having backgrounds that allow at least that much for other advanced weapons seems very reasonable now.Unless you find the AP feats to be often terribly balanced in relation to the rest of the game.
And it seems pretty IN balance when other non-AP backgrounds can give you an extra +2 to a stat, breathe underwater, 1/day re-roll for attack/save/skill...