Hello, I am new to pathfidner, I've played both video games Kingmaker and WOTR a little but generally speaking I am not very familiar with the rule system and class and all. My friend and I are preparing for a campaign. I would like to be a warrior type character if possible who could later eventually turn into a Brass Dragon (reason for Brass is that I saw that Brass dragon have in their stat block Tremorsense and a Burrow speed. I was hoping I could be maybe be a Barbarian who would transform into a Dragon and plunge into the Earth like a sandworm in Dune or whatever and then come out of the Earth bitting and Breathing Fire.
How would I go about achieving something like that? Additional info, I built a class on Pathbuilder but looking at the information on the website, I am unsure if I would be able to do what I am trying to do. I chose a Barbarian with Dragon Instinct Type Brass but on the archives of Nethys it is written;
Dragon Form (https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=88)
You gain the following statistics and abilities regardless of which battle form you choose
I was wondering are the listed stats on Dragon Form the only one you have or should I simply refer to the bestiary stats block and replace the affected stats of the stat block with those of the dragon form? And If Dragon form doesn't give me the Burrow speed and tremor sense what would be the most effective cost efficient way to become that if at all possible?
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Honestly, I think you'll have hard time getting all of that.
What you get with Dragon Form is what is written inside Dragon Form. Nothing less, but nothing more. So you'll need to grab the Burrow speed and Tremorsense from outside.
For the Burrow speed, the only spell I know is Elemental Motion. It lasts one minute, and it asks for a bunch of Sorcerer feats (4 exactly).
For tremorsense, there should also be something.
But considering the durations of all these spells, the fact that you can't cast spells while in Dragon Form (or even while raging) you'll need 3 rounds of buff before having your sandworm dragon who comes out bitting and Breathing Fire for 7 rounds.
It doesn't seem to be your goal.
Kingmaker and WOTR are using PF1 rules, that were far stronger when it comes to spells. In PF2, magic has been strongly nerfed.
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Summoner with
Dragon Eidolon
Meld into Eidolon
Vibration Sense
Burrowing Form
This means that at 1st you can be a dragon. At 4th you can tremorsense and at 10th you can borrow.
As part of Dragon Form, brass dragons get a burrow speed of 20’. It is listed by the specific form instead of the opening general description of what all the forms get. As far as tremorsense, that can be acquired from ancestry feats like Earthsense (level 9 Oread feat), or Greater Animal Senses (level 5 Beastkin feat).
I don't know if they can get tremorsense, but if you're willing to dip into third-party, Battlezoo has a whole dragon ancestry that can get the option to shapeshift between humanoid and dragon forms. One of the designers is none other than Mark Seifter, the guy who helped build PF2 in the first place! So maybe a brass dragon with the Oread or Beastkin heritage could work for you?
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I was wondering are the listed stats on Dragon Form the only one you have or should I simply refer to the bestiary stats block and replace the affected stats of the stat block with those of the dragon form? And If Dragon form doesn't give me the Burrow speed and tremor sense what would be the most effective cost efficient way to become that if at all possible?
You do only get what is listed in the spell - not everything that is part of the stat block of the actual dragon.
So you would get the burrow speed, but I don't see anything giving tremorsense. Which does seem a bit odd. Not having tremorsense would be a disadvantage when using burrow for multiple rounds.
Probably the easiest thing to do is some homebrew. A feat along the lines of Acute Vision that gives tremorsense when Raging would probably be fine. Not sure that I would leave it as a level 1 feat though. Perhaps something more along the lines of Supernatural Senses.
There may also be some spells that someone else could cast on you that would give tremorsense, but I can't think of any.
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Anadi, Oread and Dwarf have ancestry feats that give some tremorsense.
These would probably still work in a battle form.
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Nice find. The Oread Earthsense is probably the easiest to integrate into the build. It doesn't require a particular ancestry - it just takes the Heritage choice.
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Oread also gets One With Earth at 13 for a Burrow speed (albeit not a fast one).
So an Oread Dragon Instinct Barbarian ought to do the job.
Thank you so much all of you. I was expecting that it was just the stats of the dragon form and specific below ,but I was hoping maybe :). I think I am going to go the route of Oread or maybe beastkin not sure. That greater animal sense thing I'll look into both. You guys are great, have a good rest of your day or night.
Battlezoo Ancestries: Dragons has playable dragons and is very well liked.