Wizards... Questions familiar.


Rules Discussion


Bird (or companions type).

Bird wrote:


Your companion is a bird of prey, such as an eagle, hawk, or owl.
Size Small
Melee [one-action] jaws (finesse), Damage 1d6 piercing
Melee [one-action] talon (agile, finesse), Damage 1d4 slashing
Str +2, Dex +3, Con +1, Int –4, Wis +2, Cha +0
Hit Points 4
Skill Stealth
Senses low-light vision
Speed 10 feet, fly 60 feet
Support Benefit The bird pecks at your foes’ eyes when you
create an opening. Until the start of your next turn, your
Strikes that damage a creature that your bird threatens also
deal 1d4 persistent bleed damage, and the target is dazzled
until it removes the bleed damage. If your bird is nimble or
savage, the persistent bleed damage increases to 2d4.
Advanced Maneuver Flyby Attack

Familiar:

1. Modifier and CA: "Your familiar's save modifiers and AC are equal to yours before applying circumstance or status bonuses or penalties."...

2. My familiar 10+des familiar + size? If not I must?

3. Size: tiny in substituns ad medium, small?

4. Hit poits: 5+mod con familiar?

5. Movement: the animal had 60 feet fly, familiar has 25 feet?

6. Support benefit: Aid, or other?

I ask, because I light the manual and I don't uderstood what Familiar gets... I ask, excuse me...


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For familiars throw everything you know about the animal away. Apply the familiar stats. Then ask, what familiar abilities did the animal had before you did this? Your familiar must start with each of those abilities subtracting from your pool of familiar abilities.

Using your bird example, your new familiar has none of those stats or attacks. It must start with the Flier and Fast Movement (Flight). It cannot gain 60ft fly.

Yes your familiar is now size tiny, yes your familiar no longer has a support benefit, its HP is only 5 per level (no Con bonus), its saves and AC are equal to yours so good luck, it does not have advanced maneuver, it does not have reactions, it only acts when commanded and only 2 actions a turn, it cannot attack unless its one of a handful of specific familiars, etc.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The quoted rules are for Animal Companions. None of them apply to familiars in any way.


As a minor houserule and to simplify things - throw out the entire base animal stat block and never look at it again later.

You only use the Familiar stat rules. Any abilities that you want the Familiar to have have to be paid for with Familiar abilities. Nothing comes for free.

Benefit, you can make your familiar any shape that you want it to look like. Much like an Eidolon.


Or you can just make adjustments to the type so you only have to pay for what you want to pay for

Don't want to buy Fast Movement Flight - make it a chook or a turkey. They don't fly well.

Don't want to buy Fly - a dodo or a kiwi is an option

There is a school of thought that the Kitsune's pet rock familiar is the best one. It really depends on what you want to do with it.

Grand Lodge

The bird animal companion is a massive, super-powered bird. It's definitely not a base animal anyway.

A Small bird is not the same as a small bird. That's size rank Small, which is a pretty dang big bird.


Temperans wrote:
For familiars throw everything you know about the animal away. Apply the familiar stats.

I don't find the stat of familiar, ca, size, and the hit point I trove pag 217. But For, Des, Cos, Int, Sag, Car, special abilities? I can't find.


Super Zero wrote:

The bird animal companion is a massive, super-powered bird. It's definitely not a base animal anyway.

A Small bird is not the same as a small bird. That's size rank Small, which is a pretty dang big bird.

He has a tiny?


HammerJack wrote:
The quoted rules are for Animal Companions. None of them apply to familiars in any way.

I cannot trove the familiar data, (hp, ca, size, I trove), but TS, bab, è the remaning, I don't trove.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Blackstorm wrote:
Temperans wrote:
For familiars throw everything you know about the animal away. Apply the familiar stats.
I don't find the stat of familiar, ca, size, and the hit point I trove pag 217. But For, Des, Cos, Int, Sag, Car, special abilities? I can't find.

They don't exist. Familiars don't have those things that aren't in the familiar rules at all. You don't find them anywhere.

Modifiers and AC
Your familiar’s save modifiers and AC are equal to yours before applying circumstance or status bonuses or penalties. Its Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth modifiers are equal to your level plus your spellcasting ability modifier (Charisma if you don’t have one, unless otherwise specified). If it attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier. It doesn’t have or use its own ability modifiers and can never benefit from item bonuses.


HammerJack wrote:


They don't exist. Familiars don't have those things that aren't in the familiar rules at all. You don't find them anywhere.

Modifiers and AC
Your familiar’s save modifiers and AC are equal to yours before applying circumstance or status bonuses or penalties. Its Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth modifiers are equal to your level plus your spellcasting ability modifier (Charisma if you don’t have one, unless otherwise specified). If it attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier. It doesn’t have or use its own ability modifiers and can never benefit from item bonuses.

I'm the 5th level familiar on the attack has +5? It's low... I ask you to excuse me.


Blackstorm wrote:
HammerJack wrote:


They don't exist. Familiars don't have those things that aren't in the familiar rules at all. You don't find them anywhere.

Modifiers and AC
Your familiar’s save modifiers and AC are equal to yours before applying circumstance or status bonuses or penalties. Its Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth modifiers are equal to your level plus your spellcasting ability modifier (Charisma if you don’t have one, unless otherwise specified). If it attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier. It doesn’t have or use its own ability modifiers and can never benefit from item bonuses.

I'm the 5th level familiar on the attack has +5? It's low... I ask you to excuse me.
Quote:
If it attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier

Since you mentioned the bird in your opening thread, are you talking about familiars or animal companions ( afaik, Familiars have no attacks )?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Blackstorm wrote:
HammerJack wrote:


They don't exist. Familiars don't have those things that aren't in the familiar rules at all. You don't find them anywhere.

Modifiers and AC
Your familiar’s save modifiers and AC are equal to yours before applying circumstance or status bonuses or penalties. Its Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth modifiers are equal to your level plus your spellcasting ability modifier (Charisma if you don’t have one, unless otherwise specified). If it attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier. It doesn’t have or use its own ability modifiers and can never benefit from item bonuses.

I'm the 5th level familiar on the attack has +5? It's low... I ask you to excuse me.

Also keep in mind Striking (the normal attack action) is something familiars can't do at all, so yes, that is low but also rarely relevant.


CA I'm wizzard 12 in AC. Familiar 12+tiny (+4 or +2)?
(Thanks you, I don't find :))


Just AC 12.

I don't believe size affects your AC at any point. Also it wouldn't matter for familiars cause they use your AC.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yes, size having built-in numerical modifiers is a 1E thing. I would double check that wizard's AC, though. You would have to have 8 DEX to have AC that low at level 1. Are you forgetting to include your unarmored proficiency, which would be +3 at level 1?


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Blackstorm wrote:
I'm the 5th level familiar on the attack has +5? It's low... I ask you to excuse me.

Yes familiars are pathetic in combat. They are just there for minor bonuses, some moderate general utility, and role playing value. The general concensus is they are an optional but not a strong feature. If Paizo improved them in some modest way no one would really object.


Gortle wrote:

...

Don't want to buy Fly - a dodo or a kiwi is an option
...

Or these adorable tiny critters.


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The meme is that familiars are glorified pet rocks because even trying to roleplay with them requires working against the rules and for the GM to be extremely lenient.


HammerJack wrote:
Yes, size having built-in numerical modifiers is a 1E thing.

Oh, I played with pathfinder 1e fom the exit, I fatigue in 2e... Excuse me :)

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