Summoner Tactics and Builds

[Ravingdork]

What are some summoner builds and tactics that were mechanically interesting, fun, and/or powerful for you?

I'm looking to get to know the class better.

[Captain Morgan]

Ravingdork wrote:

What are some summoner builds and tactics that were mechanically interesting, fun, and/or powerful for you?

I'm looking to get to know the class better.

Scout. The summoner can scout ahead for your party. Thanks to their mobility and sizable HP pool they are unlikely to be one shot and can make an escape... Or you can just demanifest them. Without the summoner present it is more likely to be treated as a wandering monster than a coordinated enemy attack. Even if it is slain, your body is still chilling with your allies and can be healed just fine. Also is very efficient for tripping traps.

Plus, scent and tremorsense can potentially detect creatures on the other side of the door. If that happens, make sure you pre-buff. Extend boost and/or magic fang will give you a nice little damage increase.

Make your monkey into a knowledge monkey. your eidolon essentially gives you advantage on any party wide skill check like Recall Knowledge or Searching a room. I can't tell you how many times the wizard and the rest of the party have failed checks Gruff the Spirit Dog succeeded at.

[Ravingdork]

Thanks, those are exactly the kinds of things I was hoping to hear about! Any suggestions for ideal management of the unusual action economy the class offers?

[gesalt]

The usual optimization advice you'll get is to make a flying plant monster with big reach and opportunity attacks supplemented by electric arc, tandem movement and primal buffs and walls.

Dragon is built similarly, mostly to utilize frenzy. The breath is there, but is weak enough to be discounted entirely.

Size increases are typically left to evolution surge because you can't change size at-will without Shrink Down, and because flight is more universally useful to have on at all times.

There are a few notable feats
Advanced Weaponry (trip)->Weighty Impact is the go-to combat style to auto-prone targets

Glider Form->Airborn Form are your flight feats

Ranged Combatant is for dex switch-hitters

Tandem Movement is your near-mandatory action economy fixer

Eidolon's Opportunity is your near-mandatory reaction attack

Eidolon's Wrath is your universal AoE option with good scaling, but the shape is pretty bad so positioning can be tough

[Ravingdork]

Are there any ways to utilize Steed Form effectively? Or is it something of a trap option, given the summoner's unique action mechanics?

(I was quite surprised to find that you cannot use Act Together to stride while mounted because mounted eidolon movement gains the Tandem trait.)

[HumbleGamer]

The summoner can be a good dps, offtank, off healer and off blaster.

In terms of actions management is pretty cool , and being able to perform 2 exploration activities at once or more ( depends the character skill and ancestry feats ), is also quite good.

There are few downsides though:

- Static routine ( 2x strike + Electric arc pr big spell/heal ) in terms of efficiency
- Disadvantage on saving throws and effects, if both summoner and eidolon are hit
- 1 reaction for 2 characters ( it's really bad, given the stuff the class may do )
- Too many good feats, most of which are mandatory or tax feats for other feats. This would result into no dedications, or no customized eidolon ( ps: playing with double the feats with FA would obviously be faceroll as always, while invalidating this downside ).
- No fortification rune for the eidolon.

I tend to like the Demon Eidolon because how its lvl 7 perk, which helps with bosses, as well as the divine spellcasting.

It synergizes with the catfolk because of black cat curse, making the enemy reroll the save "if" the enemy succeed ( pretty good feat ).

Catfolks can also become pretty efficient in terms of exploration activities:

- Wary Skulker ( scout while avoid notice )
- Legendary Sneak ( Extra action while avoid notice )
- Eidolon ( another action )

Probably there's more you can do to get more exploration activities.

Having a non dragon eidolon, would also allows the summoner to get merciless rend, allowing them to strike x2 + rend + spell while quickened ( you can get it in several ways ).
Draconic Frenzy, though it costs 2 actions, would make difficult to land the 3rd attack, and trigger merciless rend.

[Unicore]

The two times I have seen summoners in play, they have been the first party member down in every encounter and both time the players have given up on the class after a few levels of play. They are almost always taking damage every round and AoEs hurt because it is like having disadvantage on you saves. Maybe the HP to damage situation gets better past level 10 or 11, but I haven’t seen it because the player’s gave up on the class. Both times remaking their characters into shield champions, I assume to avoid getting KO’d all the time.

I think both players tried to build healer/tanks in the first place and then quickly realized the summoner can’t do both those things well and thus went with the class that can. Maybe other build focuses with more party support on both the healing and tanking front could work out better.

[aobst128]

Heroism if it's on your list. You've got the action economy to cast, move and hit. Really good with rend, especially when you can cast it at 6th level.

[HumbleGamer]

Unicore wrote:

The two times I have seen summoners in play, they have been the first party member down in every encounter and both time the players have given up on the class after a few levels of play. They are almost always taking damage every round and AoEs hurt because it is like having disadvantage on you saves. Maybe the HP to damage situation gets better past level 10 or 11, but I haven’t seen it because the player’s gave up on the class. Both times remaking their characters into shield champions, I assume to avoid getting KO’d all the time.

I think both players tried to build healer/tanks in the first place and then quickly realized the summoner can’t do both those things well and thus went with the class that can. Maybe other build focuses with more party support on both the healing and tanking front could work out better.

On AP it may go worse as the game proceeds because of small rooms, and larger aoe.

I like protective bond because it not only solves the issue, but it makes it 2x better than normal.

Not sure whether it would work on persistent damage though.

[SuperBidi]

I love the Disturbing Knowledge build.
Disturbing Knowledge on the Eidolon thanks to Skilled Partner, One For All on the Summoner thanks to Swashbuckler Dedication.

One For All on the Eidolon + Disturbing Knowledge for a massive chance to confuse an enemy: -1 to the check because the Eidolon starts at 14 in Intelligence, but +3/4 thanks to One For All.
Once you get to Legendary, you can do it on an area and it's crazy.

[Unicore]

Another thing that seems like a summoner trap option is the mounted summoner. It seems like keeping the two parts of your self close together is just asking for trouble. Have people had much success with it?

[SuperBidi]

Unicore wrote:

Another thing that seems like a summoner trap option is the mounted summoner. It seems like keeping the two parts of your self close together is just asking for trouble. Have people had much success with it?

At level 10, you get advantage on your area of effect spells for a Reaction, so it's only a low level problem.

Still, I think it's a complex option with not much gain.

[Zabraxis]

Devotion Summoner w/ Redeemer Paladin devotion. You want most of the devotion feats so it's best w/ free archtype ...

If something hits your eidolon: negate or reduce the damage w/ Glimpse of Redemption.
If something hits you: hit them with Dutiful Retaliation

Full Plate, Healing Touch, & Resiliency all add to survivability in close combat.

Flavor the spirit being devoted because you granted them a chance at redemption in life. They stick around to help you continue doing the good work.

Haven't had a chance to play or see it in play bit it sounds fun & flavorful. Though, the AE problems mentioned upthread now give me pause.