Cost of creating Caster Tattoos

[mawin]

Can someone explain to me the rules for the creating costs for Caster Tattoos?

Specifically i want the cost for a Tattoo that applies Maximize and Selective to a spell.

Also it is possible that there are versions, that let me use it more than once?
If yes, could you show me examples for the different calculations?

Thanks a lot :)

[Lelomenia]

“Caster’s Tattoo” is a specific Wondrous magic item that applies Still and Silent spell metamagic feats to 1/day.

I’m going to interpret your question as “I want to create a new custom magical tattoo item, like Caster’s Tattoo, but for Selective and Maximize.”

In that case, looking at Caster’s Tattoo, it gives +2 worth of metamagic. So first thing i look at is +2 Metamagic Rod. And as it happens, Lesser, Normal, and Greater Caster’s Tattoos are each very close to 2/3 of the price their respective Lesser, Normal, and Greater +2 Metamagic Rod counterparts.

So I would, for lack of any other costing info, put your +4 metamagic tattoo at very close to 2/3 the price for a Lesser, Normal, or Greater Quickened Spell Rod (i.e., so about 23,000, 50,000, and 115,000 for the Lesser, Normal, and Greater versions).

And creation costs would be half of those numbers.

[Belafon]

The other way to look at it as that it gives two +1 metamagic feats. And a +1 metamagic rod is 3000/11000/24500. So the caster’s tattoo at 6000/21000/48000 is the cost of two rods. (With a 1000 gp discount on the normal and greater versions, for some reason.)

Probably needs to be addressed in here somewhere - Still Spell metamagic rods don’t actually exist. It’s worth noting though impossible to decide if we should somehow make an adjustment for that in the maths.

Using that formula, a Maximized Selective tattoo should be the total cost of a +3 and a +1 rod. 17000/65000/146000. 17000/64000/145000 if you want to give the normal and greater discount.

It’s also worth considering if such a tattoo should exist at all. A Silent, Still tattoo is very situationally useful but a Selective, Maximized tattoo is almost certain to be used in a fight.

[VoodistMonk]

Interesting question...

I would not allow modified versions of Caster's Tattoos to exist.

For one, they don't.

Secondly, Caster's Tattoos are simply a get out of jail free card for when a mage is grappled or buried.

They are a situational save-your-@$$ item, that really should not be needed more than 1/day. How many times is your Wizard getting Swallowed Whole?

You want metamagic rods? Buy the freaking rod. You want multiple free metamagics a limited number of times per day? Take Sacred Geometry.

You want to cheat Caster's Tattoos into something they are not? GTFOH...

[Belafon]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Secondly, Caster's Tattoos are simply a get out of jail free card for when a mage is grappled or buried.

Definitely not a get-out-of-jail-free when grappled.

CRB page 206 wrote:

Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler’s CMB + the level of the spell you’re casting). Pinned creatures can only cast spells that do not have somatic components.

VoodistMonk wrote:

You want metamagic rods? Buy the freaking rod. You want multiple free metamagics a limited number of times per day? Take Sacred Geometry.

You want to cheat Caster's Tattoos into something they are not? GTFOH...

I think you’re just ranting in general but since English uses the same word (“you”) for second person plural and third person plural this could easily be read as an attack on the original poster.

[VoodistMonk]

Not an attack on the OP... more a rant in general.

Caster's Tattoos are not metamagic rods, they are not meant to be used as such. It seems outside their intended purpose to go from extremely situational metamagics, to extremely useful/powerful all the freaking time metamagics.

If this was asked by someone at a table where I was the GM, my answer would be "no, absolutely not, GTFOH with that nonsense".

[mawin]

thanks for the info.

and yeah i have to ask to clarify with the gm first, but the posibilities are interesting :)

[Belafon]

Most guidelines for magical tattoos can be found in the Inscribe Magical Tattoo feat on page 16 of Inner Sea Magic. I use the word "guidelines" because it still leaves a lot up to the GM. But in general:

How many magical tattoos can I have? One in each of the following magical equipment slots: belt, body, chest, feet, hands, head, neck, shoulder,
ring (up to two), or wrist. You may still wear a magical item in that slot and gain full effect from both it and the tattoo.

Can I have more than one of the same tattoo? Yes, but like always if they are giving the same bonus (such as an enhancement bonus) they do not stack. This answers the OP's question of "can I use it more than once?" with "no, but you can have multiple caster's tattoos."

What kinds of magical tattoos can I make?

Inscribe Magical Tattoo wrote:

Magical tattoos follow the rules for magic item creation as though they were wondrous items, except that they can use the Craft (calligraphy, paintings, tattoos) skill. New magical tattoos can be researched and designed using the guidelines for pricing new magic items. Magical tattoos are treated as slotless magical items for pricing purposes.

Which means that you could have any slotted wondrous item as a double-price tattoo, such as a tattooed belt of Giant Strength +2 for 8000 gp. Creating new items means using the normal creation rules, such as working backwards from a caster's tattoo to make a variation for Selective and Maximize. You could even use the charges per day entry in the CRB table to say that a tattoo usable twice per day should cost twice as much, three times costs three times as much, etc. But I'm very, very hesitant to use that formula on items that start out as once per day. That's usually a limit for game balance reasons. You can have multiple caster's tattoos for that price but each one takes up a tattoo slot.

All subject to GM approval, of course. I personally wouldn't allow a Selective Maximized tattoo, either. Or, really, any metamagics that I could point at and say "yeah, that's almost certainly going to be used during a fight."

[Azothath]

musing...

Belafon wrote:

Most guidelines for magical tattoos can be found in the Inscribe Magical Tattoo feat on page 16 of Inner Sea Magic. I use the word "guidelines" because it still leaves a lot up to the GM. But in general:

... Magical tattoos are treated as slotless magical items for pricing purposes.

One hopes that the cost increase covers game balance but Magic Items can be a tricky thing. The tradeoff with tattoos is they can be destroyed, suppressed, or flensed off which could make up for the inability to lose one or have it stolen. The Transfer Tattoo T:1 spell is too circumstantial. Erase T:1 is the standard as per the description. I'm not sure if Break T:1 would apply but due to the crafting process it is likely targetable.

Offering a discount on combined items (as Similar Powers) is usually okay but with metamagic ones it seems unwise (metamagics takes the worst option). As metamagics are restricted to casters I don't believe there should be a class discount.
Commenting that "it will be used in combat" doesn't really mean anything in the game. I will refer you to the wooden quarterstaff or the wooden stake coming in at 0GP.

[Belafon]

Tangential Note: I did purchase a lesser caster's tattoo for my PFS cleric around 10th level. Because I could think of three specific cases where I could potentially be kicking myself and saying "If only I had bought a caster's tattoo!"

1. Failed a save vs. hold person/hold monster.
2. Afflicted with deafness.
3. Caught in an area of silence.

I always kept counters to 1 (remove paralysis) and 3 (dispel magic) prepared, but would be unable to cast them without the tattoo. I didn't keep remove blindness/deafness prepared, but I did habitually leave one open spell slot. Would have sucked if I prepared the remove spell once I had time, then failed the 20% chance to lose the spell when casting.

None of those cases actually came up during the rest of his PFS career, but the potential was reasonably high enough to make the tattoo a worthwhile purchase to me.

Spoiler:

Yes, remove silence exists. But it didn't when this character was being played (prior to Ultimate Intrigue). Also I wouldn't have wasted a spell slot keeping it prepared but dispel magic is useful enough to always have at hand.

[Negative Party Prognosis]

Belafon wrote:

Tangential Note: I did purchase a lesser caster's tattoo for my PFS cleric around 10th level. Because I could think of three specific cases where I could potentially be kicking myself and saying "If only I had bought a caster's tattoo!"

1. Failed a save vs. hold person/hold monster.
2. Afflicted with deafness.
3. Caught in an area of silence.

I always kept counters to 1 (remove paralysis) and 3 (dispel magic) prepared, but would be unable to cast them without the tattoo. I didn't keep remove blindness/deafness prepared, but I did habitually leave one open spell slot. Would have sucked if I prepared the remove spell once I had time, then failed the 20% chance to lose the spell when casting.

None of those cases actually came up during the rest of his PFS career, but the potential was reasonably high enough to make the tattoo a worthwhile purchase to me.

** spoiler omitted **

In one paragraph you've succinctly explained why I don't play casters. I'm rather good at math, but bad at impulse control and forward-thinking. Swashbuckler and Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor (Ranged only) it is.

EDIT: The "None of those cases actually came up during the rest of his PFS career" is what sends me up a wall. I *HATE* missed utility or gains, even if it's the right play at the time.

[Azothath]

Belafon wrote:

Tangential Note: I did purchase a lesser caster's tattoo 6000GP for my PFS cleric around 10th level. ...

{trivial edit}

I approve. 8^) This is also great when combined with Illusion of Calm I:1.
PCs should be survivable with some tricks up their sleeve. PFS combat is usually pretty simplistic but it can depend on the table GM responding to the NPC ability scores, skills, and story goal along with the table makeup and sophistication.

[Ryze Kuja]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Not an attack on the OP... more a rant in general.

Caster's Tattoos are not metamagic rods, they are not meant to be used as such. It seems outside their intended purpose to go from extremely situational metamagics, to extremely useful/powerful all the freaking time metamagics.

If this was asked by someone at a table where I was the GM, my answer would be "no, absolutely not, GTFOH with that nonsense".

"You gosh dang spoiled-rotten kids have every toy on the planet and now you want MORE!?!" *shakes a stick*

[VoodistMonk]

A Kobold Bloodrager/Sorcerer with the Spellcaster Sneak alternative racial feature, and the Unseen but not Undone magic trait essentially has the exact same effect as Caster's Tattoos. It's limited to Bloodline Spells, but still a really fun combination/use of racial features and traits.