I have read a few post about how the ancient elf causes all kinds of problems. But not come across this one I believe. So let me explain the build then my question.
Lvl 1 ancient elf with the alchemist dedication. Wizard class with the runelord specilaziation.
Here is my confusion. The alchemist dedication states I have to get 2 other feats from the alchemist class before I can get another dedication. But the runelord also states I have to take the runelord dedication as my 2nd lvl class feat.
So. At lvl 2, what dedication feat do I take? I haven't played this, still in the building stages.
Depends on if the GM wants to allow it or not.
If the GM is willing to relax the restriction on taking multiple dedications because of getting one of them from Ancient Elf, then you will need to spend the level 2 class feat on the Runelord Dedication.
If the GM is going to strictly enforce the restriction on multiple dedications, then you will have to choose - either pick a different Elf Heritage and forego the Alchemist Dedication, or forego the Runelord class archetype because you can't take the dedication at level 2 like you need to.
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For this reason and others, I treat the 2 feat lockout as a suggestion. It honestly doesn't do much for the game. Also, in many cases the dedication feat itself is enough of a feat tax.
I encourage other GMs to consider waiving the restriction with a caveat like "just don't go cheesy with it"
Barring Houserules or other ways of "rulesbending" you simply can't combine ancient elf with a class archetype. Not by RAW.
So to confirm, wizards don't get a 1st level feat correct?
If they did, then I would say that they would need to spend it on Runelord specialization feat (which enables them to take the Runelord dedication at level 2). If this was the case, I would probably rule that you took the Runelord Specialization feat, which requires taking the Runelord dedication, and that ultimately you couldn't have both Runelord and Alchemist dedications.
But! The really weird part here is that Runelord Specialization requires level 1, but you don't have wizard class feats to spend on it till level 2. So how are you supposed to select it?
Anyways....my ruling would be you can't select the 2nd dedication until you have 2 feats in one of them.
But! The really weird part here is that Runelord Specialization requires level 1, but you don't have wizard class feats to spend on it till level 2. So how are you supposed to select it?
Humans with the Natural Ambition ancestry feat can take a class feat at 1st level even if their class does not normally offer one.
And a 1st level class feat can be taken at any later level if desired.
Generalist wizards have a level 1 feat (instead of an automatic focus spell) and human wizards can get a level 1 class feat.
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If they did, then I would say that they would need to spend it on Runelord specialization feat (which enables them to take the Runelord dedication at level 2). If this was the case, I would probably rule that you took the Runelord Specialization feat, which requires taking the Runelord dedication, and that ultimately you couldn't have both Runelord and Alchemist dedications.
But! The really weird part here is that Runelord Specialization requires level 1, but you don't have wizard class feats to spend on it till level 2. So how are you supposed to select it?
Runelord Specialization isn't a feat. It is the named benefits for having the Runelord class archetype. You get those benefits at level 1, but don't pay for it immediately. You instead give an IOU promising to spend your level 2 class feat on the Runelord Dedication feat.
Runelord Specialization isn't a feat. It is the named benefits for having the Runelord class archetype. You get those benefits at level 1, but don't pay for it immediately. You instead give an IOU promising to spend your level 2 class feat on the Runelord Dedication feat.If they did, then I would say that they would need to spend it on Runelord specialization feat (which enables them to take the Runelord dedication at level 2). If this was the case, I would probably rule that you took the Runelord Specialization feat, which requires taking the Runelord dedication, and that ultimately you couldn't have both Runelord and Alchemist dedications.
But! The really weird part here is that Runelord Specialization requires level 1, but you don't have wizard class feats to spend on it till level 2. So how are you supposed to select it?
I guess this is the part that confuses me because how have you gained access to it if you haven't paid for it?
Anyways, I wouldn't think you should need to make a human wizard in order to pick up whatever is required for Runelord dedication, if anything is in fact required at level 1.
Nothing is required per se, you just take the archetype at 1 and as part of doing so you're obligated to spend your second level class feat on it.
To address the OP, this is entirely an ask your GM situation, because there's really no rules for how to adjudicate an interaction like this.
Nothing is required per se, you just take the archetype at 1 and as part of doing so you're obligated to spend your second level class feat on it.
To address the OP, this is entirely an ask your GM situation, because there's really no rules for how to adjudicate an interaction like this.
IMO, that's the actual problem then.
I guess it's done that way so you're not forced to be a human, picking up the feat to give you an early class feat.
But maybe they should have just made it a selection you make at level 2 by using your dedication feat and it "changes" your specialty selection to the Runelord version. So before you focused on transmutation, but now you're on the path to runelord of greed, starting at level 2 instead of 1.
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I mean, the whole point of having class archetypes work the wya they do is so that you don't have to play a completely different character at level 1. So changing it that way would be a step backwards.
The problem isn't the levels, it's just that there are no rules for how to adjudicate two separate features giving you effectively mutually exclusive options.
It's essentially the same question as the eldritch trickster/ancient elf issue people had when those options were first printed.
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If all you want is the class archetype, then it works fine.
Elementalist for example: An arcane or primal spellcaster that wants to take Elementalist archetype gets the initial benefits at level 1 - changing the tradition of spells that they have available immediately. They don't pay anything for that (other than the loss of the rest of the spells from the arcane or primal tradition list) until 2nd level when they must take the Elementalist Dedication feat.
The problem comes if you want both a class archetype (that always takes over the 2nd level class feat) and Ancient Elf that gives you a Dedication feat at level 1 - which prevents taking another dedication feat at level 2.