Intergrated Armament pointless?

[JorakFalconstar]

Apologies if this has been answered in the past, I couldn't find anything regarding it.

The Automaton Ancestry Feat

Your mechanical body houses a weapon or shield that you can quickly draw and stow, leaving you prepared for combat at all times.

You can use a 1-minute activity, which has the manipulate trait, to integrate a single, one-handed weapon or shield into one of your arms. You can draw or stow this item as an Interact action. Creatures don't automatically see this integrated item when it's stowed and must actively Seek in order to find it. They take a –2 circumstance penalty to any checks to do so.

As I'm reading it other than basically hiding the weapon within the body of an Automaton it really serves no other purpose. Can anyone give me anything that would make this feat more worthwhile, I would have seen value in it if drawing the weapon was changed to a free action but as it currently stands its just a way to make it a concealed weapon.

[HumbleGamer]

It's flavor and a pretty strong concealed condition.

You just seem not to like it or find it worth it ( I am referring to the part you suggested the draw weapon for free), so it's just better to pick something else.

To me, being an automaton, it's cool enough just because of the visual effect, compared to a normal "draw a weapon".

[whew]

If you get knocked unconscious, you don't drop it.

[Claxon]

It may not be strong, but having a concealed weapon is very thematically cool.

The only fault I find with this feat is I think it should be available as a level 1 feat, not a level 5 feat.

[CaffeinatedNinja]

Not dropping a weapon when knocked out can be rather nice.

That, and it is one of those situational things. If you have a GM that likes using disarm against you, congrats you are now immune.

[Themetricsystem]

For one thing, this version of concealment for the integrated item is essentially an always-on version of Conceal an Object that always succeeds without ever having to make a Stealth Skill check given that it never is triggered by a mere/free Perception check that is given for each NPC that would observe the creature who is concealing an object, instead it just plain works 100% of the time and in order to discover the object, the observer MUST spend actions actively using Seek in order to even have a chance at learning about the integrated Weapon.

Sadly, this doesn't actually seem to function with the only Feat that I could find that really interacts with concealed weapons, Subtle Shank (an uncommon Feat in the first place as it was part of AoE) since that Feat requires it to be concealed specifically by way of the Conceal and Object Skill Action.

I thought for SURE there were more options with regard to what one can do with Weapons and other gear that you have concealed in that manner but from what I've seen so far researching I'm starting to think that was just 1e rule contamination in my brain.

[beowulf99]

It should be noted that the enhancement is really good.

You can store your choice of 2 one handed weapons, a one handed weapon/shield, or a two handed weapon and draw some or all of your stored weapons in one action.

Nothing says infiltration like a hidden great hammer. And you still get the sneaky benefits.

[Captain Morgan]

The downside to the subterfuge component is that an automaton will probably already be drawing a higher level of attention and scrutiny just by virtue of their rarity. That said, people on Golarion don't have our level of genre savvy, so they are less likely to think that a robot should be searched for built in weapons.

[John Q. Public]

Captain Morgan wrote:

The downside to the subterfuge component is that an automaton will probably already be drawing a higher level of attention and scrutiny just by virtue of their rarity. That said, people on Golarion don't have our level of genre savvy, so they are less likely to think that a robot should be searched for built in weapons.

What's a robot? You mean that weird-looking golem over there?

[JorakFalconstar]

Captain Morgan wrote:

The downside to the subterfuge component is that an automaton will probably already be drawing a higher level of attention and scrutiny just by virtue of their rarity. That said, people on Golarion don't have our level of genre savvy, so they are less likely to think that a robot should be searched for built in weapons.

Yeah the enhancement is an interesting point. While my character won't be taking it as they use only 1 handed weapons it got me to thinking how does it work with a 1+ handed weapon like a bow? As the bow is held in 1 hand but needs 2 hands to fire can it still be concealed without the enhancement?

Of course that should raise the question in the minds of NPC "why is this thing carrying a quiver full of arrows if it doesn't have a bow with it?"

[Hsui]

It has been pointed out MANY MANY times by the gurus on these forums (people who have spent countless hours reading and re-rereading each of the rules) that rules mean what they say and ONLY that. To paraphrase:

The rules does what it says it does and NOTHING else. While there might be english words which imply something, they are only flavor unless the rule states something explicitly

This means that this feat does NOT prevent you from being disarmed. The "integration" is temporary for the SOLE purpose of providing you a concealment to draw or stow a weapon. It says NOTHING about preventing disarming. When I have stated many times before *on other rules* (edit) that the wording means something else, I have been told that it is flavor text only. While the rules say a feat that is too good is clearly being misinterpreted, they say nothing about a feat that is too poor.

There is a reason that I am the only member of our group who periodically revisits Pathfinder and this is one of them

[Errenor]

Hsui wrote:

This means that this feat does NOT prevent you from being disarmed. The "integration" is temporary for the SOLE purpose of providing you a concealment to draw or stow a weapon. It says NOTHING about preventing disarming.

Yep, I don't understand where people got that idea from either. You draw weapons - now they are just weapons in your hands, and could be taken away.

[Ravingdork]

The feat literally says "While you are wielding the item, it can't be Disarmed and you can't drop or Release it; you must Interact to store the weapon and free that hand."

[Errenor]

Ravingdork wrote:

The feat literally says "While you are wielding the item, it can't be Disarmed and you can't drop or Release it; you must Interact to store the weapon and free that hand."

Yes, it really does... I guess my attention slipped. :-(

[Gisher]

Errenor wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

The feat literally says "While you are wielding the item, it can't be Disarmed and you can't drop or Release it; you must Interact to store the weapon and free that hand."

Yes, it really does... I guess my attention slipped. :-(

I think a lot of the confusion is because the OP only quoted part of the feat but didn't indicate that they had omitted a large portion.

G&G, p. 41 wrote:

Integrated Armament

Your mechanical body houses a weapon or shield that you can quickly draw and stow, leaving you prepared for combat at all times.

You can use a 1-minute activity, which has the manipulate trait, to integrate a single, one-handed weapon or shield into one of your arms. You can draw or stow this item as an Interact action. Creatures don't automatically see this integrated item when it's stowed and must actively Seek in order to find it. They take a –2 circumstance penalty to any checks to do so. While you are wielding the item, it can't be Disarmed and you can't drop or Release it; you must Interact to store the weapon and free that hand. A creature determined to retrieve the item can do so, but it requires either 1 minute to remove it or extreme violence to your arm—such as physically removing portions of the limb. You can only have one integrated armament at a time, though you can use the 1-minute activity to replace the item or swap the arm in which it's stored.

Enhancement Your body has more space for integration. You can now either integrate two one-handed weapons, a one-handed weapon and a shield, or a single two-handed weapon which is split across both arms. You can use a single Interact action to draw or store both integrated armaments. When you draw a single weapon, you can choose to hold it with either one hand or both hands.

[Errenor]

Gisher wrote:

I think a lot of the confusion is because the OP only quoted part of the feat but didn't indicate that they had omitted a large portion.

It is true in part: it's a good practice to quote discussed rules or at least give a link (or address). But I have found the feat, read it and missed that part all by myself. :)

[Ravingdork]

Errenor wrote:

Gisher wrote:

I think a lot of the confusion is because the OP only quoted part of the feat but didn't indicate that they had omitted a large portion.

It is true in part: it's a good practice to quote discussed rules or at least give a link (or address). But I have found the feat, read it and missed that part all by myself. :)

Oh man do I do that ALL THE TIME!

While hosting a game Monday night a player kept insisting to me that Intimidating Prowess allowed him to bypass language barriers even though I could find no such mention of that in the feat text after three readings. I found it on my fourth reading, smack in the middle, sandwiched between two other sentences. XD

[HumbleGamer]

Ravingdork wrote:

Errenor wrote:

Gisher wrote:

I think a lot of the confusion is because the OP only quoted part of the feat but didn't indicate that they had omitted a large portion.

It is true in part: it's a good practice to quote discussed rules or at least give a link (or address). But I have found the feat, read it and missed that part all by myself. :)

Oh man do I do that ALL THE TIME!

While hosting a game Monday night a player kept insisting to me that Intimidating Prowess allowed him to bypass language barriers even though I could find no such mention of that in the feat text after three readings. I found it on my fourth reading, smack in the middle, sandwiched between two other sentences. XD

Talking about intimidating prowess, we found out after almost 2 years... because one of the less experienced players pointed it out "I didn't take intimidate glare because intimidating prowess removes the language penalty too"

"WHAT?"