Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Power armor is rad, but the inventor armor innovation looks like it has less to actively do than the other innovations, and it looks like it could fall into the tank fallacy (tons of defense if you are hit, but not much reason to hit you)
What have your experiences with it been? What is your opinion on it?
Haven't been able to play inventor but armor does seem like the odd one out compared to the other innovations. Defender is a possible role for inventor since you start with shield block. Armor does make that easier if you have the foresight for what you'll be fighting the next day since you can swap out specific resistances. Although, the damage resistance modifications are probably not going to be people's favorite. Wish the innovation came with powerful fist or something. Has support for unarmed attacks specifically and the suggested build is unarmed. Seems weird there's no option for a better fist. That's my 2 cents anyways.
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Honestly, after playing with one, armor inventor doesn't really feel that different or weird. You basically do the same things a weapon inventor does, but you trade away the minor offensive benefits a weapon inventor gets for minor defensive benefits.
The two are remarkably similar in practice, especially at low to mid-levels and if you aren't investing in athletics.
Rfkannen wrote: Power armor is rad, but the inventor armor innovation looks like it has less to actively do than the other innovations, and it looks like it could fall into the tank fallacy (tons of defense if you are hit, but not much reason to hit you)
What have your experiences with it been? What is your opinion on it?
Same feelings.
Passive perks, most of them defense oriented ( with the bastion dedication you are pretty strong).
I don't think I got the "not much reasons to hit you" Part.
I mean, if you are a frontline, enemies are going to hit you
The Inventor hits like a truck (and without about the accuracy of one, zing!) regardless of innovation. The weapon innovation mostly gives versatility, not raw damage IIRC.
There's some cheeky stuff you can do with the right archetyping. The stealth suit mods work well with scout. Monk archetype might actually put armor significantly ahead of weapon in terms of damage output thanks to FOB. Stances eat an extra action on top of overdrive though.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
HumbleGamer wrote:
I don't think I got the "not much reasons to hit you" Part.
I mean, if you are a frontline, enemies are going to hit you
Personally I often find in most of my parties at least half the party will remain in melee, and if a monster sees two people, one of which is hard to hit and the other of which is easy to hit, they are going to hit the easier target.
So I like it when I play a tank to have some way to make the enemies want to attack my character (champion reactions and grappling being my two favorites)
Rfkannen wrote: HumbleGamer wrote:
I don't think I got the "not much reasons to hit you" Part.
I mean, if you are a frontline, enemies are going to hit you
Personally I often find in most of my parties at least half the party will remain in melee, and if a monster sees two people, one of which is hard to hit and the other of which is easy to hit, they are going to hit the easier target.
So I like it when I play a tank to have some way to make the enemies want to attack my character (champion reactions and grappling being my two favorites) The other deciding factor is who seems more dangerous to the monster, though. If the one target can't land a hit (or barely deals damage on a hit) the monster will go for the bigger threat.
Indeed the champion provides the best deal as a tank.
Forcing the enemy to decide whether to attack the champion, with high armor class, or their ally, and because so resulting eligible for the champion's reaction, is definitely great.
An inventor has the same AC as any other combatant, but the more the game proceeds, the more tanky they get.
Greater fortification rune by lvl 15, full plate proficiency, being able to efficiently deal with alignment and energy damage, provide huge benefits... And more than that, compared to a champion, the inventor deals tons of damage because of its class features.
So the enemies would probably consider hitting them, because of the high damage.
But I understand it's up to the DM/Enemy, in the end.
The inventor is also pretty hittable. The armor innovation doesn't even start out at heavy. They are just the standard martial baseline. The initial difference is they get resistance. Whether a creature is aware their damage is being resisted is ambiguous, though I rule they can tell because usually this benefits the players. But the creature isn't likely to know WHY you have that resistance or if your teammates also have it. For all they know everyone has energy resistance cast on them. And it also isn't an enormous amount, so they are unlikely to change targets.
Captain Morgan wrote: The inventor is also pretty hittable. The armor innovation doesn't even start out at heavy. They are just the standard martial baseline. The initial difference is they get resistance. That's not a real deal though.
By lvl 3 you can get heavy armor proficiency, getting a full plate and then swapping innovation and general feat by lvl 7, when you can get heavy armor from the lvl 7 armor perk.
I see no real benefits in using the armor innovation to go tanky until lvl 7 ( simply because the full plate does it way much better ).
HumbleGamer wrote: Captain Morgan wrote: The inventor is also pretty hittable. The armor innovation doesn't even start out at heavy. They are just the standard martial baseline. The initial difference is they get resistance. That's not a real deal though.
By lvl 3 you can get heavy armor proficiency, getting a full plate and then swapping innovation and general feat by lvl 7, when you can get heavy armor from the lvl 7 armor perk.
I see no real benefits in using the armor innovation to go tanky until lvl 7 ( simply because the full plate does it way much better ). Likewise with the Subterfuge Armor, you can't max your Dex bonus with it before level 5 so you play with a Studded Leather armor at level 1-4.
A pretty annoying limitation, if you want my point of view...
SuperBidi wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: Captain Morgan wrote: The inventor is also pretty hittable. The armor innovation doesn't even start out at heavy. They are just the standard martial baseline. The initial difference is they get resistance. That's not a real deal though.
By lvl 3 you can get heavy armor proficiency, getting a full plate and then swapping innovation and general feat by lvl 7, when you can get heavy armor from the lvl 7 armor perk.
I see no real benefits in using the armor innovation to go tanky until lvl 7 ( simply because the full plate does it way much better ). Likewise with the Subterfuge Armor, you can't max your Dex bonus with it before level 5 so you play with a Studded Leather armor at level 1-4.
A pretty annoying limitation, if you want my point of view... It is indeed, but currently ( by RAW ) there's no alternative.
Talking about the subterfuge armor ( which is in a way worse situation ), I considered giving a +3/+2, because I couldn't find any reason to force a character not to benefit from the "standard" armor value ( no inventor so far in my games, but I'd still go that way if I were to ).
HumbleGamer wrote: It is indeed, but currently ( by RAW ) there's no alternative.
Talking about the subterfuge armor ( which is in a way worse situation ), I considered giving a +3/+2, because I couldn't find any reason to force a character not to benefit from the "standard" armor value ( no inventor so far in my games, but I'd still go that way if I were to ).
You have my blessing. This weird limitation is one I don't understand. It's sad to play an Inventor without their Innovation, and there's no good reason to give them a -1 to AC at low level.
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