Kineticist question


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

I am playing a Kineticist for the first time. I'm a pyrokineticist and looking to blast something underwater. Since it is Magical fire, I need to make a Caster Level check...But I cannot find anywhere what a kineticists caster level is?


You caster level in a class is the same as your level in that class.

So a 5th level kineticist, is a 5th level caster.


Even though the ability is supernatural, or possibly spell like, kineticists are not actual casters. The class is based on benders from Avatar: The last Airbender. So, technically the fire you are manifesting is "real" fire manifested via your own energies. Mostly it's all fluff, but the point is you may not have to make the caster check at all, as your blast isn't an actual spell. Not sure if there's a hard and fast rule here. You're probably in GM discretion territory.

The Exchange

Sysryke wrote:
Even though the ability is supernatural, or possibly spell like, kineticists are not actual casters. The class is based on benders from Avatar: The last Airbender. So, technically the fire you are manifesting is "real" fire manifested via your own energies. Mostly it's all fluff, but the point is you may not have to make the caster check at all, as your blast isn't an actual spell. Not sure if there's a hard and fast rule here. You're probably in GM discretion territory.

Kinetic Blast is a spell-like ability.

CRB page 221 wrote:

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In

all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

You do have to make the CL check.

As for the original question, we had that very discussion in April of last year. The kineticist's caster level isn't spelled out anywhere but the only thing that works is if the caster level is equal to class level.


Since technically it never states in the kineticist rules text that you have a caster level a GM who’s a stickler for RAW (or you’re playing PFS) could rule that you simply don’t have one. Doesn’t make sense but that’s the hand they dealt kineticists when they wrote the class. However if you take the Kinetic Invocation feat you now technically have a psychic spellcasting caster level equal to your kineticist level. This is the easiest way to get around the problem I can think of. Most of the spells are of only limited utility but the GM can add more to the list available at their discretion.


If we're going to go "technically":

Quote:
For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature's caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature's Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature's Charisma modifier.

But really, the rules aren't meant to be read like a lawyer. You're supposed to use the rules as unwritten.

The Exchange

The thread from last year I was referring to.

There's some statements in that thread that are wrong, both about kineticist caster level and SLAs in general so tread carefully (including some mistakes I made myself, but I acknowledge that I was wrong later in the thread).

The people who were in search of a solution (rather than just arguing that there "had" to be a RAW answer) came to the conclusion that there's contradictory information both in the rules and in designer commentary. The only solution that actually makes the kineticist function is to give her a caster level equal to her kineticist level.


Belafon wrote:

The thread from last year I was referring to.

There's some statements in that thread that are wrong, both about kineticist caster level and SLAs in general so tread carefully (including some mistakes I made myself, but I acknowledge that I was wrong later in the thread).

The people who were in search of a solution (rather than just arguing that there "had" to be a RAW answer) came to the conclusion that there's contradictory information both in the rules and in designer commentary. The only solution that actually makes the kineticist function is to give her a caster level equal to her kineticist level.

Thanks for the info. I stand corrected as well. With the post from Melkiador, your conclusion fits both common sense, RAW, and most likely RAI, as for PCs hd and class level are the same. (A bit hinky if we start talking multiclass).


It is worth noting… the kineticist still doesn’t actually have a caster level. So they don’t innately qualify for things like Craft Wonderous Items. But when something calls for them to make a casterlevel check, they treat their caster level as being equal to their class level.

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