| HighLordNiteshade |
I have looked around (maybe in the wrong places) but cannot find a definitive answer to this question: Are All Undead Touch Attacks Negative Energy?
The Wraith, for example, states Melee incorporeal touch +6 (1d6 negative energy plus 1d6 Con drain), which seems to indicate that the touch caused 1d6 negative energy damage, but leads to this question: Is the 1d6 Con drain also considered a negative energy attack?
And what about an Allip, which has Melee incorporeal touch +4 (1d4 Wisdom damage). Is that touch that causes Wisdom damage a negative energy attack?
This came up in our game last night when two characters with Death Ward, which makes the subject immune to energy drain and any negative energy effects. Essentially, they slaughtered a large group of Advanced Allips because the Allips were completely ineffective due to Death Ward (and high wisdom saves from the party members). I just want to make sure I followed RAW/RAI.
There is an FAQ entry explaining the difference between energy drain and death effects (two separate things), and energy drain and ability damage are clearly two different things as well.
So it seems to me, that if the touch of an undead is always negative energy then Death Ward protects you from that touch causing ability damage. But if the ability damage is a different type of damage and not negative energy, then Death Ward doesn't protect you.
But I cannot find the basic answer to: Are All Undead Touch Attacks that result in ability damage a Negative Energy attack?
| Kasoh |
Since the damage block is 1d6 negative energy plus 1d6 Con drain, I'd say that the plus means the drain is a rider on the negative energy, so if there's no negative energy damage, then there's no Con drain.
If it was just Melee incorporeal touch +6 (1d6 con drain) I'd have to say that since its not typed, death ward can't protect against it.
Until someone shows a monster that behaves differently and causes me to throw my interpretation out the window at any rate.
| Chell Raighn |
Rule of thumb… if any part of the touch attack deals negative energy damage then the entire attack is a negative energy effect. If no part of it deals negative energy damage then the attack is NOT a negative energy effect (unless specifically stated otherwise)
Note: if the player has negative energy resistance it only applies against negative energy damage NOT negative energy effects. Death ward on the otherhand applies to all negative energy effects.
| TheKillerCorgi |
Negative energy effect is just like a fire effect. So effects which deal energy damage and effects which state that they are such would be negative energy effects.
I wouldn't think riders on negative energy damage be negative energy effects just like riders on fireball wouldn't be fire effects though.
Diego Rossi
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The abilities of the undead deal negative energy damage only when they say they deal negative energy damage.
Touch of Insanity (Su) The touch of an allip deals 1d4 points of Wisdom damage (DC 15 Will negates). A successful critical hit causes 1d4 points of Wisdom damage and 1 point of Wisdom drain (instead of double Wisdom damage). With each successful attack, an allip gains 5 temporary hit points. The save DC is Charisma-based.
The Allip ability, in particular, has its entry with the full description of the ability.
1) It doesn't say that the damage is negative energy damage, so it isn't.2) It is an effect of the Allip touch, but not a rider of the Allip damage, so stopping the negative energy damage of the Allip touch doesn't stop the Touch of Insanity effect.
That would be different if the ability said something like: "When the Allip deal damage with its touch ...", but the ability text allows it to deal wisdom damage even without dealing negative energy damage.
| Mysterious Stranger |
Diego Rossi is correct. There are plenty of undead who do not deal negative energy damage. Many undead deal normal damage an additional damage affect that is based on negative energy. Vampires for example have a melee slam attack that does 1d4+4 points of damage plus energy drain. Deathward will stop the energy drain but does not affect the slam damage.