| Ariantar |
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I have a thematic concept, and am toying around with the mechanics of making it interesting and could use some suggestions or ideas.
I'm trying to find synergies with the shove mechanic and difficult terrain on specifically a Human/Oread Ranger (Melee) who uses a Badger Animal Companion. I think the theme is pretty obvious - a deep connection with earth and earth magic.
It's a Strength of Thousands campaign so I'll get a free Druid Archetype (Giving me access to the very intriguing Scatter Scree cantrip, plus a bunch of utility spells).
I have a feeling like I'm just missing some connection or option wherein I can make the shove action, when positioned correctly near or around difficult terrain, to cost an enemy two actions to return to me. Treacherous earth is a single action Oread ability that creates a 5 ft burst of difficult terrain. If I create the difficult terrain (or open with scattering scree), then somehow skirmish strike then shove (with reach), is there some way to get them to eat the 2 actions to get back to me?
Or maybe some other synergy with the difficult terrain I can create and use with a Ranger's inherent combat bonuses in difficult terrain?
Any ideas or brainstorms or suggestions? Maybe some archetype shenanigans? Mauler is an obvious pick I think.
| aobst128 |
The best combo I can think of would be to have a boarding pike, if you can get access to it. Has reach and shove, get disrupt prey, shove your opponent into difficult terrain making it unable to step towards you, then hit them with an opportunity attack when they try to get back in position. If you have a fighter in the party, shoving things around in the fighters reach within difficult terrain can be pretty effective as well.
| SuperBidi |
What you are looking for is PF1 level of synergies. They no more exist in PF2. Roughly, Ancestries will nearly never give you such strong options. Skill feats may, but will rarely, and always under the proper skill (so Athletics-based skill feats and there is not much for Shove). And classes can have chains of feats around a specific action. Ranger doesn't have one around Shove. So you have looked everywhere, roughly.
I don't think there's anything that can be considered a "Shove-build" in PF2. These kind of combo-based builds don't exist in this game.
| aobst128 |
Yea I guess I need to change my expectations in builds from PF1 to PF2. I like the ranger as a chassis because it has either better MAP or action economy, depending on how you build. Maybe what I'm trying to accomplish just isn't possible (yet).
Trip and grapple builds are definitely possible though. I'm not sure if ranger would work that well though.
| Gortle |
I have a thematic concept, and am toying around with the mechanics of making it interesting and could use some suggestions or ideas.
I'm trying to find synergies with the shove mechanic and difficult terrain on specifically a Human/Oread Ranger (Melee) who uses a Badger Animal Companion. I think the theme is pretty obvious - a deep connection with earth and earth magic.
It's a Strength of Thousands campaign so I'll get a free Druid Archetype (Giving me access to the very intriguing Scatter Scree cantrip, plus a bunch of utility spells).
I have a feeling like I'm just missing some connection or option wherein I can make the shove action, when positioned correctly near or around difficult terrain, to cost an enemy two actions to return to me. Treacherous earth is a single action Oread ability that creates a 5 ft burst of difficult terrain. If I create the difficult terrain (or open with scattering scree), then somehow skirmish strike then shove (with reach), is there some way to get them to eat the 2 actions to get back to me?
Or maybe some other synergy with the difficult terrain I can create and use with a Ranger's inherent combat bonuses in difficult terrain?
Any ideas or brainstorms or suggestions? Maybe some archetype shenanigans? Mauler is an obvious pick I think.
What are you trying to do? Eat up their actions?
Force them to move back in?Probably Shove and Trip combined is a good option. Sort of built in with Awesome blow but that is a level 14 barbarian feat. Presumably you have reach and AoO to take advatage of it. Or Agressive Block to shove an enemy back after thier first attack and screw up their attack routine
Shove plus difficult terrain just doesn't seem to stack up. Are you trying to force them to stride and not step?
| Ariantar |
Ariantar wrote:I have a thematic concept, and am toying around with the mechanics of making it interesting and could use some suggestions or ideas.
I'm trying to find synergies with the shove mechanic and difficult terrain on specifically a Human/Oread Ranger (Melee) who uses a Badger Animal Companion. I think the theme is pretty obvious - a deep connection with earth and earth magic.
It's a Strength of Thousands campaign so I'll get a free Druid Archetype (Giving me access to the very intriguing Scatter Scree cantrip, plus a bunch of utility spells).
I have a feeling like I'm just missing some connection or option wherein I can make the shove action, when positioned correctly near or around difficult terrain, to cost an enemy two actions to return to me. Treacherous earth is a single action Oread ability that creates a 5 ft burst of difficult terrain. If I create the difficult terrain (or open with scattering scree), then somehow skirmish strike then shove (with reach), is there some way to get them to eat the 2 actions to get back to me?
Or maybe some other synergy with the difficult terrain I can create and use with a Ranger's inherent combat bonuses in difficult terrain?
Any ideas or brainstorms or suggestions? Maybe some archetype shenanigans? Mauler is an obvious pick I think.
What are you trying to do? Eat up their actions?
Force them to move back in?Probably Shove and Trip combined is a good option. Sort of built in with Awesome blow but that is a level 14 barbarian feat. Presumably you have reach and AoO to take advatage of it. Or Agressive Block to shove an enemy back after thier first attack and screw up their attack routine
Shove plus difficult terrain just doesn't seem to stack up. Are you trying to force them to stride and not step?
Yea the idea is somehow getting it to burn 2 actions to return to me. I just don't think it's mechanically possible. With Skirmish Strike, plus a reach shove, plus the difficult terrain, I was hoping I could find something that would work.
| Pixel Popper |
Yea the idea is somehow getting it to burn 2 actions to return to me. I just don't I just don't think it's mechanically possible. With Skirmish Strike, plus a reach shove, plus the difficult terrain, I was hoping I could find something that would work.
Forget difficult terrain and try a different order of operation: Trip then Shove then Skirmish Strike with a reach weapon (as long as the Shove was not a critical success). MAP is a hurdle, but -6 (on a Flurry Ranger with a reach weapon) and the target being -2 AC from being Flat-Footed for being Prone, it should be fairly reliable.
Using Skirmish Strike to Step farther away also means that the target must Stride, not Step, to get back to being adjacent. Unless they Crawl, it's two actions to Stand and Stride (which triggers Disrupt Prey with your reach weapon). If they do Crawl, they still provoke and burn one action, to be adjacent... while still prone... and flat-footed...
If the Shove was a critical success, then you simply follow the target for 10 feet and Skirmish Strike. Though it can now Step to return adjacent, unless it Crawls, it will have to Stand which will provoke.
Multi-class Rogue and you can pick up Shove Down at 12th for better action economy: 1st action Shove + free action Trip then 2nd action Skirmish Strike then ??? 3rd action...
Add some Cha. to this high Str. build and Hobgoblin with Remorseless Lash, Intimidation (Demoralize), and Intimidating Prowess starts to look real nice. Getting the target Frightened makes it easier to Trip, Shove, and Strike, and Remorseless Lash pretty well keeps it Frightened.