I'm planning to play a Runelord and I'm still a bit undecided which school/sin I should pick. I feel like I might miss out on some good spells I might not be aware of, mostly because the arcane spell list is so large.
So, ignoring which schools go together in the Runelord archetype, what are in your opinion the most powerful/valuable spells for each of schools of magic? Other than divination, of course.
By lvl 8 you'll be extremely powerful with competitive edge, which will be automatically sustained for free by lvl 16 because or effortless concentration.
You'll be also able to cast either stoneskin and haste, when needed.
Though evocation and necromancy will be banned, you'll be able to get some aoe through different schools.
As long as you have either transmutation and abjuration you'll be fine.
Agitate
Fear
Sleep
Hideous Laughter
Roaring Applause
Power Words
Evocation
Spoiler:
Different flavors of damage spells
Gravitational Pull
Shockwave
Ignite Fireworks
Levitate
Wall of Ice/Force
Chain Lightning
Zero gravity
Reverse gravity
Force cage
Illusion
Spoiler:
Illusory Object/Creature
Ventriloquism
Invisibility / Sphere
Shadow projectile
Phantasmal killer
Drop dead
Shadow Syphon
More seriously, there are really two facets to selecting the right runelord. First is picking what schools of magic you can live without. The second is picking which runelord adds the best focus spells and or the base school that has the best focus spells.
Spells Ranking (1 = better):
1. Illusion - Illusionary object is the best low level control spell when combined with the L6 wizard reaction feat convincing illusion. Illusions got a significant buff in his edition and require an actual action to disbelieve. That is essentially the 'failure effect' on most spells these days, so getting that and then potentially still having the enemy fail a save is great IMO. The utility of invisibility is extremely high and I don't think there are many better ways to stay safe as a wizard over a L4 invisibility.
2. Transmutation - Spider Climb, Fly, Haste, Slow, Pyrotechnics. All amazing spells with various heightened levels to really buff/debuff.
3. Evocation - If you ever plan on casting a damaging cantrip, you can't prohibit evocation. Also Who doesn't want a few fireballs, chain lightnings, or disintegrates in the gas tank and the best wall spell (wall of force)?
4. Enchantment - All hinged on the L3 Fear spell. Its one of the best opening/debuffing spells. Follow it up with a stacking debuff like a L6 slow and now we're talking.
5. Abjuration - Lots of quality of life spells for stoneskin, dispel magic, or energy resistances. I just feel like energy resistance is fairly easy to come by via runes/rings or ancestry feats. Probably you can live without this if need be.
6. Necromancy - other than false life (scales poorly) and some of the vampiric esc spells to do some 'oh shit' healing this is probably another school you could live without.
7. Conjuration - Summons are awful and while some teleportation effects are cool, you can usually get by without or by having someone else cast it/mcguffin you to the w/e plane you need to investigate.
That limits my typical runelord choices to evocation or necromancy unless I want to give up on my face wizard illusion controller dreams. Honestly though, I'd love to convince a GM to let me be a new 'rogue' runelord of divination with prohibited schools of necromancy and conjuration.
I think the big draw to being a runelord is the scaling focus spells/points and refocus abilities. Any build that can cherry pick the best focus spells and be able to refocus in an acceptable manner to the group based on their sin will do well with the archetype. The biggest problem is that the wizard focus spells are pretty mediocre. I think the only standout focus spells from the archetype are:
Good Focus Spells:
Enchantment – Charming Touch (particularly on a face wizard for some social encounters).
Evocation – Zeal for battle (you and someone else get to roll initiative with advantage. Basically use it every combat).
Necromancy – Overstuff can apply sickened 1 or 2 which takes an action to get a check to get rid of and is better than frightened because of it. Take its course could be really powerful if you have some kind of poisoner in the party. Otherwise you’re quite limited in your ability to apply these effects to make the most use of this.
Transmutation – Precious metals could be a real life saver for hitting weaknesses and eventually includes adamantine.
Otherwise for the normal wizard focus spells I think the winners really are:
Necromancy - Call of the Grave gives more sickened debuffs but is a spell attack role so needs a true strike tacked on. Life siphon is another emergency healing spell for you alone.
Evocation – Force Bolt isn’t amazing but its nice to have a 1 action magic missile to fire off for a random 3rd action. Elemental Tempest could be okay if you’re surrounded, but if that’s the case you probably should be running away.
Conjuration – Dimensional Steps is a nice way to do short range teleports.
Enchantment – Dread Aura is a semi-permanent frightened 1 debuff which is quite powerful
Illusion – Invisibility Cloak scales to 1 hour invisibility.
If you’re also going to multiclass for other focus point spells it may be worth it. So personally I think a face necromancy or evocation runelord could be fun, with a strong secondary focus in illusions with the convincing illusion feat. Otherwise a dual class build could really be good to combo the focus points onto a real martial chassis and make use of those polearms.
By lvl 8 you'll be extremely powerful with competitive edge, which will be automatically sustained for free by lvl 16 because or effortless concentration.
You'll be also able to cast either stoneskin and haste, when needed.
Though evocation and necromancy will be banned, you'll be able to get some aoe through different schools.
As long as you have either transmutation and abjuration you'll be fine.
I don’t quite understand the stoneskin and haste comment. Is it just the point about no having their respective schools as forbidden ?
By lvl 8 you'll be extremely powerful with competitive edge, which will be automatically sustained for free by lvl 16 because or effortless concentration.
You'll be also able to cast either stoneskin and haste, when needed.
Though evocation and necromancy will be banned, you'll be able to get some aoe through different schools.
As long as you have either transmutation and abjuration you'll be fine.
I don’t quite understand the stoneskin and haste comment. Is it just the point about no having their respective schools as forbidden ?
I probably phrased it not in the best way.
I meant to say that either stoneskin and haste, imo, have a central role in a combatant build ( in this specific case, a polearm wizard), so it would have been a win under different points of view:
- strongest melee oriented focus spell
- being able to benefit from either haste and stoneskin
- the extra slot would have been used to cover an extra use of stoneskin ( haste would have been good too)
- either necromancy and evocation wouldn't have been a great loss for the wizard ( among the others, apart from transmutation, divination and abjuration),for example by using conjuration or illusion spells.
@Old_Man_Robot: The Transmutation and Evocation schools in general or as chosen specialist schools for a Runelord?
@HumbleGamer: Your second post clears up what you mean. I don't disagree but I'm not sure I'll be doing much polearm-fighting. I was looking a the whole thing from a purely caster perspective.
@Kyrone: Your post is about what I was looking for. Thanks! Have a cookie. :)
@Red Griffyn: I had to ask my GM with puppy eyes just so I can pick a rare class archetype. I'm not going to ask for what's basically a homebrew subclass on top of that. Also not a huge fan of divination.
Your school ranking is interesting, mostly because some of it is pretty different from how I would rank them. Good food for thought! Thank you.
I'm not too concerned about the focus spells. Having good ones is always welcome but I'll most likely end up with some secondary archetype to access better focus spells.
@Lanathar: Your posts pretty much summed up my thoughts on the initial replies. Thanks for saving me the trouble to post them myself.
Thank you all for your input so far! Feel free to keep more coming!
One small consideration to keep in mind is that neither Necromancy nor Conjuration-based Runelords are currently able to take advantage of the Runelord's ability to gain extra cantrips without GM intervention because there are only a single necromantic and conjurative cantrip on the arcane list. This affects Transmutation Runelords as well, to a lesser extent, because there are only two transmutative cantrips on the list.
Not a big consideration, and not something that is difficult to fix--just poach a cantrip from another list with GM permission--but something to consider nevertheless.
As for focus spells, you can always grab another class’ focus spell, or a focus spell from another archetype, and channel your FP into that. You’re not restricted to the ones you have.
That said, looks like Necromancy, Transmutation, Evocation (past early levels - getting through those without EA/Scree is rough) and Conjuration (wall of stone loss is big, rest is liveable) are the easiest ban.
Divination would be another easy ban but you can’t ban it.
Speaking of electric arc. The way it's phrased, does it prohibit casting and then also remove the spells or does it prohibit casting and then clarify the mechanism of it as the removal of spells?
I ask mostly because walking around it via otherworldly magic or adapted cantrip (primal) can be very easy ways to get the spell back.
