APG Monk Stances - Are they supposed to require unarmoured?

[Tender Tendrils]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, a quick search didn't turn anything up for me.

So the various monk stances in the Core Rulebook & Secrets of Magic have "you are unarmoured" as their requirement. But in the APG, most of the stances (Gorilla Stance, Stumbling Stance, Shooting Stars Stance, Cobra Stance, Peafowl Stance, Whirling Blade Stance, etc) lack the "you are unarmoured" requirement.

Is this intended, or is it an oversight?

[Blave]

Intended. It allows other classes to use them if they pick them up via Monk or Artial Artist dedication.

[Nefreet]

A Champion of Cayden Cailean with Stumbling Stance would be pretty awesome, IMO.

[Tender Tendrils]

I don't see anything about the APG stances that should make them not have the same restriction as all of the stances in the other two books - I think if the intent was to let multiclass characters wear armour and use the monk stances it wouldn't be confined to just the stances in one book, unless the stances in that book had something different about their flavour that justifies armour, which they don't seem to have.

That is why I suspect it might be an oversight.

[shroudb]

Tender Tendrils wrote:

I don't see anything about the APG stances that should make them not have the same restriction as all of the stances in the other two books - I think if the intent was to let multiclass characters wear armour and use the monk stances it wouldn't be confined to just the stances in one book, unless the stances in that book had something different about their flavour that justifies armour, which they don't seem to have.

That is why I suspect it might be an oversight.

\

keep in mind that the Martial artist archetype came out in the same book and it's suppossed to be a different approach to getting unarmed to othr classes that arent monk/dont want to mc monk.

so there is a good reason thaat the stances published in the same book should synergise with things like a puching fighter as an example.

RAW there is no armor requirement, and i dont think we have enough to say that RAI is different.

[Tender Tendrils]

shroudb wrote:

RAW there is no armor requirement, and i dont think we have enough to say that RAI is different.

To be honest I mostly just made this thread for;

1 - In case there is some line in an errata or a comment from a designer on the forums somewhere I missed that says whether it is an oversight, then someone who has seen it might let me know
2 - Because sometimes when someone posts questions like this a designer pops in and clarifies it as intended or says "thanks for pointing it out, we will add it to our list for an errata"

[Cordell Kintner]

There's no reason to assume the intent is that you need to be unarmored to use these stances. Why must all stances require unarmored?

You pointed to certain stances from the APG, but another stance from the APG, Monastic Archer, explicitly requires you to be unarmored, so it's not like they just "forgot". The most likely explanation is that they wanted some stances that were usable with armor, so the Martial Artist Dedication didn't automatically force you to go unarmored. It also allows builds like mentioned earlier: A Champion of Cayden Cailean with Stumbling Stance. It's very thematic, and they wouldn't have to give up their heavy armor (Though kinda bad since Stumbling Feint needs Flurry of Blows, which you don't get through Martial Artist).

The point being, not all "Monk" stances have the unarmored requirement, and that's okay. Monks wearing armor is a bad idea anyway with their proficencies, so there's no real reason to enforce the unarmored aspect any further.

[HumbleGamer]

I think there's no room for interpretation there.

- Plenty of new stances lack the unarmored part.
- It's been a while and nothing has been addressed ( errata, yt, reddit, paizo forum, etc... ).
- Raw is clear that it does allow armored character to use those specific stances.

Errata may come anytime, but until then they are just speculations, since rules are clear.

[Deriven Firelion]

It seems to allow some other types of builds, which is nice. You can see some armored gladiator type using gorilla stance.