Poison and Snake themed Summoner

[Salamileg]

Working on a poison themed Beast summoner and am looking for advice on how to build her, primarily looking at feat and spell choices (ancestry and eidolon choices are pretty set in stone). I have her built to 4 with free archetype.

1st
Ancestry: Human
Heritage: Skilled - Crafting (this build kind of wants a lot of skilled, and having Crafting at expert will be helpful for downtime)
Ancestry Feat: General Training - Additional Lore - Plant Lore (a flavor choice, she's a gardener of exotic plants)
Ability Scores: 10 14 12 14 10 18
Skills: Crafting (from Heritage), Deception, Diplomacy, Intimidation, Heraldry Lore, Plant Lore, Medicine, Nature, Society, Survival
Eidolon: Beast (s n a k e)
Evolution Feat: Expanded Senses

2nd
Class Feat: Extend Boost
Skill Feat: Specialty Crafting - Alchemy
Free Archetype: Poisoned Dedication

3rd
Skill Increase: Nature
General Feat: Toughness

4th
Class Feat: Tandem Movement
Skill Feat: Read Lips
Free Archetype: Poisoned Resistance

Starting Spells:
Electric Arc, Prestidigitation, Protect Companion, Puff of Poison, Sigil
Fear, Pest Form
Fungal Infestation, Slough Skin

I don't have a ton of plans for the future, other than the fact that at 5th I'll probably swap out Pest Form and Slough Skin for Envenom Companion and Haste. The general playstyle is going to be Eidolon focused with my character mostly throwing out Boost Eidolons except when she needs to cast a spell (in which case she'll use Extend Boost). Daily poisons will be applied to my eidolon between combats. Any tips to improve this?

[HumbleGamer]

I am not sure you'll be able to apply poisons on your eidolon unarmed attacks

Quote:

Applying alchemical poisons uses Interact actions. A poison typically requires one hand to pour into food or scatter in the air. Applying a poison to a weapon or another item requires two hands, with one hand holding the weapon or item The Usage entry for a poison indicates the number of hands needed for a typical means of application, but the GM might determine that using poisons in other ways functions differently.

[pauljathome]

HumbleGamer wrote:

I am not sure you'll be able to apply poisons on your eidolon unarmed attacks

Quote:

Applying alchemical poisons uses Interact actions. A poison typically requires one hand to pour into food or scatter in the air. Applying a poison to a weapon or another item requires two hands, with one hand holding the weapon or item The Usage entry for a poison indicates the number of hands needed for a typical means of application, but the GM might determine that using poisons in other ways functions differently.

That seems an overly strict reading of the rules.

Surely I can hold the snakes head/fang in one hand while applying the poison with the other?

I'd certainly allow that as a GM, even in PFS.

[HumbleGamer]

pauljathome wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

I am not sure you'll be able to apply poisons on your eidolon unarmed attacks

Quote:

Applying alchemical poisons uses Interact actions. A poison typically requires one hand to pour into food or scatter in the air. Applying a poison to a weapon or another item requires two hands, with one hand holding the weapon or item The Usage entry for a poison indicates the number of hands needed for a typical means of application, but the GM might determine that using poisons in other ways functions differently.

That seems an overly strict reading of the rules.

Surely I can hold the snakes head/fang in one hand while applying the poison with the other?

I'd certainly allow that as a GM, even in PFS.

Well, given how "unarmed attacks" are mentioned in any feat/perk/skill/mechanic, I don't think it's readling rules strictly ( it mentions weapons and items twice, with no reference to unarmed attacks ).

Not to say it's from CRB, and no errata has been received until now.

[Zwordsman]

As a random sidenote. There are poison bombs you can learn the formula.

[Castilliano]

I think putting the poison in a creature's mouth is called poisoning them. Not to mention that'd be an inefficient tactic w/ scant reward.

I'll suggest a dragon Eidelon w/ poison breath as a best case scenario. Give it a snake-y name & shape (bite & tail; no claws) and it'll RP the same IMO.

Sadly, as a person who has concocted lots of poison-themed variants to attempt to fulfill a specific PC image I have, there's little use for poison in PF2, mostly because it's a damage buff on a game with a tight power curve. The exception is breath attacks and a couple spells that don't scale well, but have decent debuffs which can be difficult to land due to Fort. Not to poo poo poison as frosting on the cake and/or sword, I just wouldn't invest too much into it...yet. (Maybe someday my poisonous aristocrat shall come to life.)

[Dubious Scholar]

Also there's a lot of poison immunity around. Undead, constructs, etc.

[Ventnor]

Is this for a home game or for organized play? Because in a home game, one thing you might try asking your GM is if you can modify the Energy Heart Evolution feat to include poison damage.

[HumbleGamer]

Ventnor wrote:

Is this for a home game or for organized play? Because in a home game, one thing you might try asking your GM is if you can modify the Energy Heart Evolution feat to include poison damage.

I think this may be the best case scenario as well.

The player asking the dm to literally de-power himself by adding to an already existing feat a damage type which is not really the best ( because of the great amount of immunities/resistances among the enemies, as Dubious Scholar already mentioned ).

It would be for flavour purposes, so it would give no harm except maybe to the player itself.

[Salamileg]

Sorry for not responding much!

@Discussion of poison and unarmed attacks: I definitely agree that it's vague RAW, but my GM has decided to allow it.

Castilliano wrote:

I think putting the poison in a creature's mouth is called poisoning them. Not to mention that'd be an inefficient tactic w/ scant reward.

I'll suggest a dragon Eidelon w/ poison breath as a best case scenario. Give it a snake-y name & shape (bite & tail; no claws) and it'll RP the same IMO.

Sadly, as a person who has concocted lots of poison-themed variants to attempt to fulfill a specific PC image I have, there's little use for poison in PF2, mostly because it's a damage buff on a game with a tight power curve. The exception is breath attacks and a couple spells that don't scale well, but have decent debuffs which can be difficult to land due to Fort. Not to poo poo poison as frosting on the cake and/or sword, I just wouldn't invest too much into it...yet. (Maybe someday my poisonous aristocrat shall come to life.)

I neglected to mention that the plan was to make my Eidlon's secondary attack slashing in the form of a bladed tail, and that's what I was going to apply the poison to. And thanks for the suggestion regarding the dragon Eidolon! I'll definitely consider it, but I'm a little attached to the idea of the Primal list because of how nature-themed the character already is.

As for your warnings about poison-based characters, I'll keep it all in mind. I'll try to keep plenty of poison alternatives hanging around.

Ventnor wrote:

Is this for a home game or for organized play? Because in a home game, one thing you might try asking your GM is if you can modify the Energy Heart Evolution feat to include poison damage.

This is probably a pretty good solution!